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Weird noise coming from speakers

Y

yomibro

macrumors regular
Original poster
Feb 24, 2008
220
7
I noticed in the past week that when I scroll through a webpage I can hear a clicking sound (similar to the one from the MM) coming out of my speakers? This also seems to happen when I scroll through my iTunes library but in this case it's a humming sound, when the scrolling stops so does the noise.

I've tried muting the speakers but the sound is still there, has anyone else experience this before?
 
cmaier

cmaier

Suspended
Jul 25, 2007
25,405
33,471
California
yomibro said:
I noticed in the past week that when I scroll through a webpage I can hear a clicking sound (similar to the one from the MM) coming out of my speakers? This also seems to happen when I scroll through my iTunes library but in this case it's a humming sound, when the scrolling stops so does the noise.

I've tried muting the speakers but the sound is still there, has anyone else experience this before?
Click to expand...

what kind of monitor/video cable are you using?
 
S

shroud

macrumors member
Sep 24, 2007
31
1
I have experienced that as well with my mac pro and my powerbook G4. I think it is just poorly filtered electrical noise on the motherboard.

The headphone jack in my G4 laptop is awesome but on the Mac Pro I get hissing and R2D2 blips and bloops. I have also tested usb condenser mics and standard line-in mics and have had serious issues with electrical noise on the Mac Pro but not nearly as much on the laptop.

So, in short, I think I am trying to say that all computers can have minor noise like this but that the Mac Pro has it more than any other computer I have ever owned. Granted, mine was one of the first ones off of the assembly line. Lesson learned. :D
 
Tesselator

Tesselator

macrumors 601
Jan 9, 2008
4,601
6
Japan
You may be right about the source/cause but this kind of noise can usually be eliminated by grounding and/or using optical i/o.

My mac is also an early model and there's no noise at all. But I set it up with HQ audio/video in mind: No mini jacks, balanced Canon jacks where possible, optical interfaces, and everything well grounded.
 
Y

yomibro

macrumors regular
Original poster
Feb 24, 2008
220
7
cmaier said:
what kind of monitor/video cable are you using?
Click to expand...

I have a Gateway FHD2400 with the factory speaker bar on it, using a DVI cable and the standard mini-jack from the speaker bar is connected directly to the Mac Pro.

I just can't recall if the noise started right after I installed the 4870 or was it there before, I'll probably take some time this weekend and put back the 2600XT and see if I still get this noise. It would really suck if that was the case but I don't think I will be giving up my 4870 just yet. :p
 
R

rylin

macrumors 6502
Aug 18, 2006
351
0
Tesselator said:
You may be right about the source/cause but this kind of noise can usually be eliminated by grounding and/or using optical i/o.
Click to expand...

Not entirely true, as the optical signal needs to be converted somewhere.
My mini is driving a Z-5500 setup over optical, and as soon as I VNC into it or do something else that gives it a bit of network load, output is a bit sparky.
(And yes, everything's properly grounded)
 
Tesselator

Tesselator

macrumors 601
Jan 9, 2008
4,601
6
Japan
Yeah, I did say "usually". It's of course not always the case that grounding is the issue. Just something for the OP to check.
 
S

shroud

macrumors member
Sep 24, 2007
31
1
hey Tesselator, any tips on diagnosing and treating (with hardware, software, whatever) grounding issues?

I've had issues with my mac pro for so long that I've almost given up on it. I'll probably go and buy a power socket tester to see if my house has grounding issues too since I have tried moving the computer from room to room with no luck.

Do you think those of us with worse noise issues could have some defect inherent in the computer itself or more likely it is just interference from outside of the comp? Also, on a side note. From time to time my computer will lock up and the hard drives will, pardon my complicated tech speak, 'forget to spin'. The only way for me to get them to spin and have the GUI respond again is to plugin or unplug something from the computer through USB (maybe firewire too, I haven't tried that since USB works). Could this be an outside electrical interference problem as well? I'm happy to hear you have no issues and would love to be in the same boat!

Thanks.


------
Just fyi,
after all of the mac pro headaches I have removed most audio equipment like my art tube mp and xlr mic and now use a small studio for audio... but the stuff I retain all in the same room is:

  • mac pro 2.66 7300gt with 2 500GB hitachi and 2 1TB hitachi drives.
  • 2GB apple ram 8GB OWC ram
  • owc mercury elite pro with 2 1TB hitachi drives in an external enclosure.
  • logitech wireless mx laser mouse and transmitter
  • iSight
  • 2 samsung 203N sata superdrives (ata versions had serious slowdowns when used together)
  • tango express firewire/usb 2.0 pci card (mac pro usb and firewire ports would fail from time to time and Apple refused to replace the mac pro because they wouldn't fail consistently)
  • tango express firewire 800/usb 2.0 pci card. (same reason as above)
  • rode video mic for camcorder and computer line-in recording without preamp as i don't use it on the comp much anymore (great mic just bad noise on comp)
  • apex 181 usb condenser mic
  • 1 lacie porsche drive for use as a scratch disk
  • old altec lansing acs495 speakers
  • backup ups by APC 'rs 1500'
  • 30 inch cinema display
  • fujitsu scansnap
  • surgemaster surge protector
  • hp deskjet 5550
 
Tesselator

Tesselator

macrumors 601
Jan 9, 2008
4,601
6
Japan
There's a host of elaborate suggestions and techniques that may or may not help. :) The last time I had an actual problem was on the Amiga and the solution at that time was to bring all the shell caps (cable shield) to earth. All my digitizers went from an unacceptable buzz/hum/scratchy to professionally and pleasingly quiet. Since then I've always set things up preventatively and not had another issue (in the home studio anyway). I think understanding ground, ground noise, ground loops, and etc. is over half the problem. After that just setup with what you've learned in mind and pray a lot. :)

http://www.google.com/search?client...a+professional+audio+system&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8
One common thing to try is to individually ground all peripherals, use SHORT shield grounded cables, and make sure ground source is nice and quiet - a water-pipe works well I hear if you're near some plumbing - like under the bathroom sink. Use thick solid copper wires to connect your devices to ground. If you are solving for a grounding issue disconnect everything at first and just try and get the computer and monitor quiet... then add in the external components one at a time to make sure nothing is introducing noise. Do the same thing with your external amps, pre-amps, and audio gear too.


shroud said:
Do you think those of us with worse noise issues could have some defect inherent in the computer itself or more likely it is just interference from outside of the comp?
Click to expand...

It could be anything. But I would not initially suspect the computer itself downstream of the power supply. That (apparently) many people have this problem and (apparently) many people do not, makes me think it's usually an environmental issue. Yeah, like grounding or something. It depends on the type of noise too tho. If it's that intermittent chirp we all experienced throughout 10.4.x and early firmware then it's the system - solved by firmware and/or OS updates. If it's a whine, buzz, hum, or scratchy sound like is being described here then I think it's probably environmental.

Also, on a side note. From time to time my computer will lock up and the hard drives will, pardon my complicated tech speak, 'forget to spin'. The only way for me to get them to spin and have the GUI respond again is to plugin or unplug something from the computer through USB (maybe firewire too, I haven't tried that since USB works).
Click to expand...

Sounds like your PSU is overloaded or dying.

Could this be an outside electrical interference problem as well?
Click to expand...

Highly unlikely but it is possible.


.
 
S

shroud

macrumors member
Sep 24, 2007
31
1
Thanks Tesselator, you rock! Some of those links have lots of great info that I probably should have learned before. :eek: I will be away on assignment from Monday so may not be able to post any responses as to what worked and what didn't on the Mac Pro for a little while but will get to work on it once I return on Friday.

I will, however, have my laptop with me so I can play with that and see if I can get the mighty mouse type noise off of if for Yomibro. Hopefully I can have some good results to report back to you guys soon.
 
S

shroud

macrumors member
Sep 24, 2007
31
1
OK, well I have spent the last hour and a half playing in every conceivable way with my laptop and I can't get the mighty mouse sound to happen. In fact, the quality of sound is the best that I have ever heard from my laptop!!? I ran the computer full throttle, maxed the ram and caused massive pageouts, ran almost every major app I own at the same time, ran it while plugged in and fully charged, ran it while unplugged, ran it while plugged in and charging, ran it after a logout, ran it using different electrical outlets from around the house etc.

I have almost completely zero hiss or electrical noise when scrolling from the headphones (grado sr80i, bose triport, bang & olufsen adjustable earphones, apple ipod standard isssue) or laptop speakers. I haven't used my cans with the laptop since the last 10.x.x update so maybe that has something to do with it?

I can't seem to remember if the mighty mouse (MM) scroll type sound was always active on scrolling or if it was intermittent but it is sure not on now. I can, however, hear lots of noise coming from under the keyboard and scrolling does effect that but it is not the same as the mighty mouse sound that I used to hear. (btw, I hear three noises under the keyboard. One noise is always there and sounds almost like a scratchy morse code, the second noise happens only from time to time and sounds like what I think is the hard drive mechanism over the platter?...almost like a series and tiny klink sounds followed by larger klink and then its done, and the third is much more rare and sounds high pitch like a whine, it sounds almost like the first sound but very high and constant for about 3-5 seconds before it drops completely.

I am beginning to wonder if I have ever even heard the MM sound with my headphones on while scrolling or if it was from the same area under the keyboard like the other noises! I'm at least 80% sure that I have though.

Also, I do have pretty bad allergies now here in North Carolina so that may have something to do with the great sound quality I am hearing but I am able to hear the minor noises from under the keyboard from across my den (~20 feet) so I think it shouldn't matter too much. I'll keep at it.
 
Tesselator

Tesselator

macrumors 601
Jan 9, 2008
4,601
6
Japan
shroud said:
  • mouse (MM) scroll type sound on scrolling through headphones or speakers.
  • One noise is always there and sounds almost like a scratchy morse code,
  • the second noise happens only from time to time and sounds like what I think is the hard drive mechanism over the platter?
  • the third is much more rare and sounds high pitch like a whine,
Click to expand...

I think:
  • Is a grounding issue,
  • is low grade or partially failing electrical components,
  • is probably the HDD ;) ,
  • is also electrical component noise.

Anyone with an actual (and not just proclaimed) education in electronics can tell you that there's lots of moving parts in a CPU, RAM, or any of the electrical components in a computer system. Besides the obvious HDD movement and etc. if nothing moved then your computer would not compute. ;) And a step further into this train of thought if there was zero movement your computer wouldn't be touchable as it would be at a temperature of absolute zero (–273.15°C). Everything moves, everything has a frequency, everything makes a noise in inner space air. All components vibrate under the force and friction from trillions of relatively large scale movements as massive electrons collide, bump against other materials, and influence electromagnetic fields - which intern cause whole bodies to attract and repel causing even more larger scale vibration, friction and resulting heat and noise. At the component level some components do so audibly - either alone or in harmonic conjunction with other components. Some may need the assistance of amplified listening devices to detect. As I said in another thread it's a fact that both CPUs and RAM make noise - sometimes even audibly - other components are far far FAR more noisy though but we can think of them as part of the "CPU" CPSS (central processing subsystem) or "RAM" or whatever subsystem we're talking about.


.
 
R

rylin

macrumors 6502
Aug 18, 2006
351
0
Tesselator said:
Anyone with an actual (and not just proclaimed) education in electronics can tell you that there's lots of moving parts in a CPU, RAM, or any of the electrical components in a computer system. Besides the obvious HDD movement and etc. if nothing moved then your computer would not compute. ;) And a step further into this train of thought if there was zero movement your computer wouldn't be touchable as it would be at a temperature of absolute zero (–273.15°C).
Click to expand...

You're more likely to pick that up in physics rather than electronics ;)
 
S

shroud

macrumors member
Sep 24, 2007
31
1
Thanks Tesselator! Your reply reminded my of the books that I read by Michio Kaku and Brian Greene on string theory, the universe etc. I really love thinking about things in such ways. I don't know why but I find it fascinating.

I'm pretty sure your assumptions are right about the electronic noise in the computer. I can't remember if I have always had the scratchy morse code noise in the computer or not, it is pretty old as a 1GHZ aluminum G4 and I hope it isn't starting to fail on me. Luckily the electronic noise on the laptop doesn't bother me so much as it never made it in to the final product of audio or video work (unlike with my Mac Pro). The G4 has also been my most heavily used and most satisfying computer that I have yet owned.

If I ever hear the MM noise again on either computer then I will try to isolate grounding issues and hopefully check the box for the OP.
 
Y

yomibro

macrumors regular
Original poster
Feb 24, 2008
220
7
Just finished playing around with my setup and this is what I found out:

With 4870
Disconnected the following one at a time: scanner, memory card reader, monitor USB hub, second monitor (rebooted every single time a device was disconnected)
Left connected - Main monitor, speaker bar
Results - Still get the MM clicking and buzzing in iTunes

With 2600XT
Left connected - Main monitor, speaker bar
Result - Get the MM clicking and buzzing in iTunes
Connected the following one at a time: scanner, memory card reader, monitor USB hub, second monitor (rebooted every single time a device was connected)
Result - Still get the MM clicking and buzzing in iTunes

After reading some of the suggestions/links about grounding what I did next was go to Home Depot and purchased a few terminators for my cable splitters, terminated all unused coaxial ports and also grounded the cable splitter down at the basement and repeated my test.

With 2600XT
First impression with just the main monitor and speaker bar connected was that the MM clicking was gone but I still got the buzzing sound in iTunes while browsing through folders. Proceeded to reconnect the other equipment one at a time and rebooting after each device and still had the iTunes buzzing but the MM clicking was definitely gone now.

With 4870
Disconnected everything again and just left the main monitor and speaker bar connected, MM clicking is gone but iTunes buzz still around. Proceeded to reconnect all the other equipment one by one (reboot after each connect) and still got the same result where the MM mouse clicking is gone but the iTunes buzz was still around.

It seems that grounding the cable splitters did at least resolve the MM clicking issue, what I kinda don't understand is my TV tuner is network based so it's not directly connected to the Mac Pro. Why grounding the splitters helped?:confused: (I should mention that I am connected to my router via wireless)

On another note just as an observation my Mac Pro is connected to a CyberPower 1285 UPS, with the 4870 in the system I can get 9 minutes out of it at 75% load with the MP, 24" and 19" monitors connected to it. With the 2600XT and the same hardware I am able to get 14 minutes of backup time at 50% load, didn't know the 4870 was such a power hungry card.

Would hate to see what my backup time and load percentage would be if the 4870 was running at full tilt. :eek:
 
Tesselator

Tesselator

macrumors 601
Jan 9, 2008
4,601
6
Japan
Sounds like you might be on the right track. Keep going. Ground the UPS, the TV Tuner, your monitor, and the cable modem / wireless LAN. :)

I would especially want to ground anything wireless.
 
B

buckley27

macrumors newbie
Nov 12, 2009
1
0
Wales
Signal noise in home recording set up? Any ideas

Hi,
I have upgraded my home studio to Imac 27inch with 8gb of ram and 1 tb HD, I have decided to via away from USB audio interface and have chosen 'edirol FA-66 firewire' but by doing so have come to a stalemate situation with unwanted signal noise. The noise created is high pitched noises with crackles and if I move anything on my 'windows screen' it is audible in my output speakers.
As stated 'firewire' was replaced by 'USB audio interface device' no noise so leads me to believe that my samson resolv 65a monitors are working well, I have balanced cables from soundcard to monitors. The noise issue only appears when I introduce firewire connection, I am using belkin 400(6pin) to 800(9pin). I am not daisy chaining nor do I have a 400 input on new imac. I have tried different mains outputs from different rooms, and I have even exchanged both firewire device and cable in case of hardware issues. I am still stumpt, I am beginning to think that their is an issue with transferring of firewire 400 to 800.
 
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