Windows 7 is amazing.

Stridder44 · Sep 22, 2009

uuaschbaer said:
Factual accuracy makes little difference to the statement's disputability.

Oh really? So if something is proven true time and time again then that somehow doesn't affect the statement? I'm not going to sit and argue semantics, but just because something could be considered debatable doesn't mean it's not true. I'll admit "lie" probably wasn't the right word, but then I wasn't looking to get into a battle over semantics either.

Of course you have to remove the "Apple kool-aid drinking" factor to get any real answers.

uuaschbaer · Sep 22, 2009

Stridder44 said:
Oh really?

Yes, the extents to which statements may be disputable vary, but every one of them is debatable (disputable).

Stridder44 said:
So if something is proven true time and time again then that somehow doesn't affect the statement?

No, it doesn't. It makes it likelier to be either true or false, but it doesn't change it.

Stridder44 said:
I'm not going to sit and argue semantics

A commendable attitude, but hard to keep up.

Stridder44 said:
but just because something could be considered debatable doesn't mean it's not true.

Never said, or meant to say, that was the case. My point was that using a word like 'lie' you (unwittingly) accuse flyfish29 of being deceitful, that's all.

Stridder44 said:
I'll admit "lie" probably wasn't the right word

That's very fair (to fishfly29, but I don't want to speak for him).

Stridder44 said:
but then I wasn't looking to get into a battle over semantics either.

I wholehartedly agree with you in principle. In this case, however, it is important because the probability of miscommunication was high and the result of miscommunication could've been unpleasant.

Stridder44 said:
Of course you have to remove the "Apple kool-aid drinking" factor to get any real answers.

This is concerning the Windows-7-versus-Mac-OS-X topic, if I'm not mistaken. In order to, possibly in vain, add to that discussion as well: perhaps the Apple-kool-aid-drinking factor has its own merit, i.e. a characteristic that's worth money, to consumers, aside and completely unrelated to the utilitarian purpose.

rasmasyean · Sep 22, 2009

neiltc13 said:
You do realise that the Intel processors that Dell uses in its cheap machines are the same ones Apple puts into its "Pro" MacBooks, right?

If you want to compare it by price actually, the reality is that Mac purchases lose value as time goes by.

In the beginning of a release, Mac’s might be “quality”, but over time that price doesn’t drop while the internal hardware stays exactly the same.

In contrast “Dell” prices always drop so you can buy an ever increasing spec’ed Dell for the present Mac prices. Sometimes this price is cheaper even at the start of a Mac release…if you don’t attribute a few hundred bucks to the Aluminum casing, etc. Whether you like the finish or the kool-aid, is ultimately your own preference.

FOXEO · Sep 26, 2009

rasmasyean said:
If you want to compare it by price actually, the reality is that Mac purchases lose value as time goes by.

In the beginning of a release, Macs might be quality, but over time that price doesnt drop while the internal hardware stays exactly the same.

In contrast Dell prices always drop so you can buy an ever increasing speced Dell for the present Mac prices. Sometimes this price is cheaper even at the start of a Mac releaseif you dont attribute a few hundred bucks to the Aluminum casing, etc. Whether you like the finish or the kool-aid, is ultimately your own preference.

There is one thing you can discover via personal experience or eBay, and that is:

Macs get better resale value.

I sold my iBook G4 a couple months ago for ¥35,000, which is about $350 USD. Can you imagine trying to sell an equivalent middle-of-the-road Windows laptop from 2005 today for $350? Not very likely. I also sold an identical iBook G4 about a year ago for ¥55,000, or about $550 USD.

iPhone 62S · Sep 26, 2009

FOXEO said:
There is one thing you can discover via personal experience or eBay, and that is:

Macs get better resale value.

I sold my iBook G4 a couple months ago for ¥35,000, which is about $350 USD. Can you imagine trying to sell an equivalent middle-of-the-road Windows laptop from 2005 today for $350? Not very likely. I also sold an identical iBook G4 about a year ago for ¥55,000, or about $550 USD.

This is true. I sold a iBook G3 with a dead hard drive, 900MHz CPU and 384MB RAM for around £80.

I also see clamshell iBook G3s constantly going for over £100, and iMac G4s are the same.

FOXEO · Sep 26, 2009

iPhone 62S said:
This is true. I sold a iBook G3 with a dead hard drive, 900MHz CPU and 384MB RAM for around £80.

I also see clamshell iBook G3s constantly going for over £100, and iMac G4s are the same.

Even when no one will purchase it for actual computer usage, they purchase Macs as collectors items. I know many people with Apple collections. I know 0 people with PC collections, though I'm sure some do collect them.

ncmason · Sep 26, 2009

Windows 7 is just pretty.

Snow Leopard is pretty fast

rasmasyean · Sep 26, 2009

FOXEO said:
There is one thing you can discover via personal experience or eBay, and that is:

Macs get better resale value.

I sold my iBook G4 a couple months ago for ¥35,000, which is about $350 USD. Can you imagine trying to sell an equivalent middle-of-the-road Windows laptop from 2005 today for $350? Not very likely. I also sold an identical iBook G4 about a year ago for ¥55,000, or about $550 USD.

Well...if you bought that G4 for $1,350 vs. buying a Dell for $999, you wouldn't have made a better resale value, now would you have? lol

...not to mention you would spare the trouble of listing it and still have a toilet room computer that you can toss arround.

Whatever man. You can justify it all you want but everyone knows that there is a "fashion premium" on Apple products. Even those who buy them all the time know this but just don't care because they can afford it or whatever.

flyfish29 · Sep 26, 2009

FOXEO said:
Even when no one will purchase it for actual computer usage, they purchase Macs as collectors items. I know many people with Apple collections. I know 0 people with PC collections, though I'm sure some do collect them.

THey do in fact collect them- in their basement work area when they stop working- it just isn't a collector's item collection...more of a junk collection.

thejadedmonkey · Sep 26, 2009

FOXEO said:
There is one thing you can discover via personal experience or eBay, and that is:

Macs get better resale value.

I sold my iBook G4 a couple months ago for ¥35,000, which is about $350 USD. Can you imagine trying to sell an equivalent middle-of-the-road Windows laptop from 2005 today for $350? Not very likely. I also sold an identical iBook G4 about a year ago for ¥55,000, or about $550 USD.

Actually, as long as you aren't trying to get a decent resale value from your $350 (new) laptop you bought from Wal*mart, you should be OK when it comes time to sell it.

Here's an example of a laptop that came out in 2003 I believe. It cost less then your iBook, and will fetch at least $100.

Or, if Dell is more your thing, check this one out. It came out in 2006, but it's currently at $225, 6 bids, and 2 hours to go. Oh yeah, and it has a 5 hour battery life. What's that Macbook Pro, with it's super battery getting, 4 years later?

rasmasyean · Sep 26, 2009

thejadedmonkey said:
Actually, as long as you aren't trying to get a decent resale value from your $350 (new) laptop you bought from Wal*mart, you should be OK when it comes time to sell it.

Here's an

example of a laptop that came out in 2003 I believe. It cost less then your iBook, and will fetch at least $100.

Or, if Dell is more your thing, check

this one out. It came out in 2006, but it's currently at $225, 6 bids, and 2 hours to go. Oh yeah, and it has a 5 hour battery life. What's that Macbook Pro, with it's super battery getting, 4 years later?

Here's a thought experiment.

If you look for some good deals (which they often have a lot of) you can get some decent speced computers for pretty cheap.

ASUS N51 Series N51Vn-X1A NoteBook Intel Core 2 Duo P8700(2.53GHz) 15.6" 4GB Memory 320GB HDD 7200rpm DVD Super Multi NVIDIA GeForce GT 240M - Retail $1,000
High performance model with nVidia GT240M 1GB DDR3
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16834220566

Compare that to the "close" MBP 15-inch: 2.53GHz, 4GB Memory, 250GB hard drive, SD card slot, NVIDIA GeForce 9400M graphics @ $1,700
http://store.apple.com/us/browse/home/shop_mac/family/macbook_pro

With the Asus, you'll even get 70GB of HD, DVD-RAM burner, and a generation jump graphics card that even has 750 MB more VRAM (the 9400 in the MBP is also the lower end of that generation). Not to mention a multi-card reader and a buch of other ports.

I'm not sure what the MBP has other than the aluminum case hardwarewise, that would make it "resellable" for $700 when the Asus is worth Zero.

EDIT: I just noticed something. The 9400M is also a shared memory card. POS graphics. The GT 240M is a completely dedicated high-end graphics card...that can prolly do Crysis-type games.

iPhone 62S · Sep 26, 2009

FOXEO said:
Even when no one will purchase it for actual computer usage, they purchase Macs as collectors items. I know many people with Apple collections. I know 0 people with PC collections, though I'm sure some do collect them.

I collect all computers including PCs, but they run Linux

FOXEO · Sep 26, 2009

rasmasyean said:
Well...if you bought that G4 for $1,350 vs. buying a Dell for $999, you wouldn't have made a better resale value, now would you have? lol

...not to mention you would spare the trouble of listing it and still have a toilet room computer that you can toss arround.

Whatever man. You can justify it all you want but everyone knows that there is a "fashion premium" on Apple products. Even those who buy them all the time know this but just don't care because they can afford it or whatever.

Internet forums breed antagonism. People like to argue when they can't see faces.

I didn't say anything but what I said. I'm not justifying anything, and made no comment whether Macs have a fashion premium, whatever that is.

But this is an internet forum, and more often than not people don't even need the other guy to keep arguing against whatever opponent they have mentally created for themselves.

P.S. The iBook G4 cost me just short of $1k when I bought it in 2005.

rasmasyean · Sep 26, 2009

FOXEO said:
Internet forums breed antagonism. People like to argue when they can't see faces.

I didn't say anything but what I said. I'm not justifying anything, and made no comment whether Macs have a fashion premium, whatever that is.

But this is an internet forum, and more often than not people don't even need the other guy to keep arguing against whatever opponent they have mentally created for themselves.

P.S. The iBook G4 cost me just short of $1k when I bought it in 2005.

What antagonism? If you expect everything you say be absorbed as gospel, then dont post anything on the internet. And the exact price of your G4 is irrelevant. Thats not the point.

archurban · Sep 26, 2009

ncmason said:
Windows 7 is just pretty.

Snow Leopard is pretty fast

I just went to zoo today. snow leopard was gorgeous. I love him. he just sat down, watched me for hour.

cleanup · Sep 27, 2009

I have to be honest, I like Windows 7 better than any OS Apple has put out.

And I'm by no means a Microsoft fanboy *hugs my MBP*.

Windows 7 has some issues under Boot Camp, I've found though. Or maybe it's just Boot Camp itself. Not sure.

captincroc · Sep 27, 2009

Although I hold strong to my Mac, I do think Windows 7 looks fantastic. Course, so did Vista and that wasn't as great as it looked but I suppose anything is more useful then Vista on my Windows Machine. In fact, I may just buy a whole new computer altogether and completely demolish my current Windows machine.

kate-willbury · Sep 27, 2009

cleanup said:
I have to be honest, I like Windows 7 better than any OS Apple has put out.

And I'm by no means a Microsoft fanboy *hugs my MBP*.

Windows 7 has some issues under Boot Camp, I've found though. Or maybe it's just Boot Camp itself. Not sure.

its because apple has created the most sh*tty windows drivers like the trackpad nonsense in windows 7 on macbook. probably did it on purpose so they could get all the people who abandoned osx for windows 7 back (like i did!).

ncmason · Sep 27, 2009

archurban said:
I just went to zoo today. snow leopard was gorgeous. I love him. he just sat down, watched me for hour.

Hahaha.

flyguy206 · Sep 28, 2009

Stop your lying. windows 7 is like a good looking woman with no brain worthless after a few days

flyfish29 · Sep 28, 2009

flyguy206 said:
Stop your lying. windows 7 is like a good looking woman with no brain worthless after a few days

rasmasyean · Sep 28, 2009

flyguy206 said:
Stop your lying. windows 7 is like a good looking woman with no brain worthless after a few days

Don’t doubt the power of Windows. Vista had a bad reception and slow start. Yet OSX penetration just inched a tiny bit over the past couple of years…likely more attributed to the iPod than the OS itself. If Apple wants to be a serious competitor, I think they would have to come out with some significant changes.

iPhone 62S · Sep 29, 2009

rasmasyean said:
Dont doubt the power of Windows. Vista had a bad reception and slow start. Yet OSX penetration just inched a tiny bit over the past couple of yearslikely more attributed to the iPod than the OS itself. If Apple wants to be a serious competitor, I think they would have to come out with some significant changes.

Both Windows 7 and Snow Leopard had no significant changes that wern't under the hood...

nick1516 · Sep 29, 2009

Having used the RC on my laptop before buying a mac, I can say that I like the look and feel of windows 7, and will definitely be buying a copy for bootcamp.

Zombie Acorn · Sep 29, 2009

I suggest using stardock object dock and moving your start bar to the top for anyone whos a fan of more mac style (or linux for that matter) in a windows environment. Its the only way I roll.

Windows 7 is amazing.

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