Our unheard voices as consumers. - Updated 10/30/09

monoxera · Oct 22, 2009

yahoodlums said:
So when Apple replaces the faulty GPU/Logic board, are they fitting a fault free one, or just another one with the same inherent fault?

And the answer was

anzo said:
no man...we have to bring it to court regardless...
it's clear nvidia's fault...
replacing a faulty chip with a new faulty chip won't solve the problem...
at the end all 8600 mbp users are f'ed...
wt can we do after the warranty ends?! NOTHING!!
so I say we should run the GPU as much as possible, get repaired more than 3times and get a new MBP for replacement!!...

So in the end, what's going to happen?

Should I call Apple America, to tell Apple Korea and complain about this?

Btw, I've had EXACTLY the scenario with a customer that has had his ipod nano (1st generation) here in South Korea and it exploded in his office.
Link to story- http://asia.cnet.com/blogs/digihunter/post.htm?id=63008022

So tell me, what are our options?

Stay quiet and expect 8600m GT to fail again but see 3 year warranty end? (http://support.apple.com/kb/TS2377)
Or fight back to question Apple about this?

Now Apple are charging users with faulty 8600M GT to fix out of our own pockets?
https://forums.macrumors.com/posts/8715593/

nerd · Oct 22, 2009

My MBP is currently being repaired (for free) because of the faulty nvidia chip. I'm under the impression that the new revision of the logic board fixes the problem.

I don't see what the possible conspiracy is. Apple voluntarily extended the warranty first to two years I think and now to three years. It doesn't seem to me like they are trying to "run out the clock" on anyone. I'm happy with their response to this issue. (I'll be happier when I have my computer back and working!)

I am curious to know if Snow Leopard is more taxing on the GPU somehow and is causing the recent wave of failures. I noticed my first symptoms about a week after upgrading.

fluffyx · Oct 22, 2009

The new logic boards include an NVidia chip without the defective packaging.

In fact, the MacBook Pro logic boards were in short supply immediately after they realized that they were defective. One assumes that they recalled all of those service parts in the supply chain and refitted them with longer-lived GPUs.

As long as your MacBook Pro is less than three years old, if its 8600M has failed, Apple will repair it for free. Read more at http://support.apple.com/kb/TS2377 .

iLog.Genius · Oct 22, 2009

fluffyx said:
The new logic boards include an NVidia chip without the defective packaging.

How accurate is that? From what I've read from the long post of failing 8600M GT's, Apple replaces the logic board with the another logic board with the same defective (pictures and profiler data was taken and posted). 8600M GT owners have to deal with defective chips until they either give up on it or Apple gives them a new MacBook Pro.

monoxera · Oct 22, 2009

iLog.Genius said:
How accurate is that? From what I've read from the long post of failing 8600M GT's, Apple replaces the logic board with the another logic board with the same defective (pictures and profiler data was taken and posted). 8600M GT owners have to deal with defective chips until they either give up on it or Apple gives them a new MacBook Pro.

Yes, you are correct. I heard that as well.

Apple is replacing broken graphics card with same graphics card, until the 3 years period is gone, then you're SOL.

Ugh, can't we consumers do ANYTHING?

Sace · Oct 23, 2009

iLog.Genius said:
How accurate is that? From what I've read from the long post of failing 8600M GT's, Apple replaces the logic board with the another logic board with the same defective (pictures and profiler data was taken and posted). 8600M GT owners have to deal with defective chips until they either give up on it or Apple gives them a new MacBook Pro.

Actually i think the 8600 chips were discontinued, before Apple extended the waranty - So every existing chip is defective.

If you take a look at the new iMac line - Apart from the base model, Nvidia GPU's are GONE! Wonder why

bov · Oct 23, 2009

prior to sending in my MBP for repair, i asked the genius if they replaced the logic board with the same known defect, and they said it is replaced with a different model, but same logic board

dunno how much i believe that statement though...

on a happier note, got the call from apple saying my baby is repaired, so im picking it up tomorrow and hopefully it's alll goood from now on

J&JPolangin · Oct 23, 2009

Sace said:
Actually i think the 8600 chips were discontinued, before Apple extended the waranty - So every existing chip is defective.

If you take a look at the new iMac line - Apart from the base model, Nvidia GPU's are GONE! Wonder why

...execpt for the fact that the machines they hold the most market share (and growing) laptops all have nVidia 9400M's in the most popularly sold models... by the time the total 3 year period runs out, most people move on to new hardware anyway...

Eddyisgreat · Oct 23, 2009

J&JPolangin said:
by the time the total 3 year period runs out, most people move on to new hardware anyway...

Yes but for home users three years usage out of a machine is a bit unreasonable don't you think? These aren't corporate users with buckets of cash who end-of-life their $80,000 rack servers because they are 1 Mhz slower than the newer model; 12 inch powerbook are still being bought and sold on the market.

Apple says "your stuff will die don't ask us when" not like a hard drive manufacturer with a stated MTF (mean time between failure) that we can look at when buying the drive, or any other statement saying "you machine will last no longer than 3 years".

GoCubsGo · Oct 23, 2009

nerd said:
My MBP is currently being repaired (for free) because of the faulty nvidia chip. I'm under the impression that the new revision of the logic board fixes the problem.

I don't see what the possible conspiracy is. Apple voluntarily extended the warranty first to two years I think and now to three years. It doesn't seem to me like they are trying to "run out the clock" on anyone. I'm happy with their response to this issue. (I'll be happier when I have my computer back and working!)

I have to agree with this guy for the most part.
OP: Your news is old and outdated. There is no conspiracy here because, as stated above, Apple acknowledged the problem and will fix the issue should it arise. Now go outside and breathe.

monoxera · Oct 23, 2009

jessica. said:
I have to agree with this guy for the most part.
OP: Your news is old and outdated. There is no conspiracy here because, as stated above, Apple acknowledged the problem and will fix the issue should it arise. Now go outside and breathe.

This is old news sure. But the rate of registered users posting about their failed GPU this month is quite a shock to me.
Conspiracy that apple replaces GPU with same defective GPU and in turn, 3 years will pass by and we will all have to fork out $1100 for a new logic board? Yes

Jessica, I'm guessing you haven't had a defective GPU?
I know I didn't have one until this week, and I saw that "nvidia 8600m GT ALL DEFECTIVE thread" and I really didn't give a rat's ass about all the users experiencing broken GPUs. But now that I get to feel first hand how awful this situation is, I am very upset and disappointed because I bought this laptop with my own monies, and it took me quite a while to afford this.

////////////////////////////////////////
Bottom line:

Apple replaces defective GPU with defective GPU that will break in 1 year.
Consumers cannot do a thing about it since they have extended warranty for 3 years
After 3 years our GPU breaks, who will cover us then? A $3000 laptop for me does not last 3 years, but should last 10 years at least for me.

chill. · Oct 23, 2009

the bottom line is, what do you expect them to do?

1. give you a whole new laptop as a replacement?

2. continue replacing the video card and doing free repairs for 10 years?

these really aren't financially feasible solutions. like.. a 3 year warranty is a 3 year warranty, not a 10-year warranty and not a lifetime warranty. yes, it's horrible that the 8600's are defective, but there's always a risk of purchasing a shoddy product.

are dell/hp/acer/apple etc. all going to give you a free new laptop? while it would be nice, the answer is no. they've already fulfilled their obligation by supporting the warranty. they really don't owe you anything

MrZebra · Oct 23, 2009

jessica. said:
Apple acknowledged the problem and will fix the issue should it arise.

Expect they won't unless Nvidia provides well-packaged and better built chips, and Nvidia clearly won't.

fluffyx · Oct 23, 2009

I would expect the chip to look the same to the naked eye, and for it to report the same info to System Profiler. It may not be possible to prove beyond a doubt that the new chips have changed at all.

But has anyone actually had to send their MBP in for this issue TWICE after Apple announced the Quality Program? The program was announced quite a while ago, and I've never seen it be a repeat issue.

monoxera · Oct 23, 2009

fluffyx said:
I would expect the chip to look the same to the naked eye, and for it to report the same info to System Profiler. It may not be possible to prove beyond a doubt that the new chips have changed at all.

But has anyone actually had to send their MBP in for this issue TWICE after Apple announced the Quality Program? The program was announced quite a while ago, and I've never seen it be a repeat issue.

Yes, I've seen people getting it fixed 3 times before they raged

monoxera · Oct 23, 2009

Added 4 new cases today

bov · Oct 23, 2009

im happy because i sent my 2.2Ghz MBP in for repair, and now have a 2.4 Ghz MBP. Also i have a 256MB 8600M GT instead of a 128MB one.

Free upgrades are always nice.

hopefully this new logic board doesnt poop out on me though....

monoxera · Oct 23, 2009

bov said:
im happy because i sent my 2.2Ghz MBP in for repair, and now have a 2.4 Ghz MBP. Also i have a 256MB 8600M GT instead of a 128MB one. Free upgrades are always nice.

hopefully this new logic board doesnt poop out on me though....

Unibod?

Rampant.A.I. · Oct 23, 2009

monoxera said:
Yes, you are correct. I heard that as well.

Apple is replacing broken graphics card with same graphics card, until the 3 years period is gone, then you're SOL.

Ugh, can't we consumers do ANYTHING?

This unfortunately seems to be their new strategy for dealing with defective products. Deny that there's anything wrong with them, pretend like all the similar defective products are just wild coincidences, and stall the consumer until they're out of warranty.

It's a good strategy for the short term, because they're not losing any revenue. But in the long run... It's gonna backfire.

bov · Oct 24, 2009

monoxera said:
Unibod?

hahah no sorry i just meant they replaced my original 2.2Ghz processor with a 2.4Ghz one.

Stiss · Oct 24, 2009

You can do something after the warranty has expired. Here in the UK you can anyway.

Sales of Goods Act says products should be free of inherent faults and should last a reasonable amount of time. For electronics such as TV's the law says 6 years, not sure for laptops.

If your in the UK and having a tough time with any one just ring Consumer Direct. They give you a case number, the retailer then rings them quoting your number and Consumer Direct puts them right.

rodo · Oct 24, 2009

i have the old santa rosa... my nvidia chip died 2 times, and I got 2 logic boards for free, out of warranty. Of course Apple replaced with the same logic board, I warned them it will burn again (and did xD) .... They said... well... ring us again and will change it.

Since my second burnout, I power off the computer more frequently. Also it would be fine to avoid any plastic covers as probably it would worsen the problem.

BTW-Are you refering to unibodies?? Do they have the same problem???? Why no other computers with embedded nVidia chips (most of them!) die?

comptr · Oct 24, 2009

well for me it was the end of september and october. One logic board died, one screen died. Next ram died.Then another screen died. Then another logic board died. Finally the battery died. Its been the month of repairs for me.

thejadedmonkey · Oct 24, 2009

chill. said:
the bottom line is, what do you expect them to do?

1. give you a whole new laptop as a replacement?

2. continue replacing the video card and doing free repairs for 10 years?

these really aren't financially feasible solutions. like.. a 3 year warranty is a 3 year warranty, not a 10-year warranty and not a lifetime warranty. yes, it's horrible that the 8600's are defective, but there's always a risk of purchasing a shoddy product.

are dell/hp/acer/apple etc. all going to give you a free new laptop? while it would be nice, the answer is no. they've already fulfilled their obligation by supporting the warranty. they really don't owe you anything

Actually, if they're supplying a known defective product, then they should be either giving you a new, non-defective laptop, or repairing the laptop not for 10 years, but for the life of the machine. I think the issue is that this graphics chip was in 2 generations of MBP's, so it would be too many to do a mass recall like they should...

chill. · Oct 24, 2009

thejadedmonkey said:
Actually, if they're supplying a known defective product, then they should be either giving you a new, non-defective laptop, or repairing the laptop not for 10 years, but for the life of the machine. I think the issue is that this graphics chip was in 2 generations of MBP's, so it would be too many to do a mass recall like they should...

there's defective and then there's defective. it's not like you're getting a brick out of the box. the laptop is functional, what is in question is the "life of the machine". do you expect the auto industry to give you a new car every time your brakes wear down?

Our unheard voices as consumers. - Updated 10/30/09

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