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Old Oct 26, 2009, 03:04 PM   #126
fpnc
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IChing View Post
We've got some good techies here so
I thought I'd throw this in for discussion

Kanex Mini DisplayPort Adapter To HDMI 1080p Video w/ Digital Audio

Price: $69.99
UPC: 094922327727
Sku: MDPHDMITOS

Bring a true digital experience to your home theater with our fully digital Mini DisplayPort adapter that supports 1080p video and digital audio for Apple® MacBook, MacBook Pro, Mac Mini, iMac.

With audio limitation from Mini Displayport we've combined Apple® Mini Jack digital audio output with Mini DisplayPort digital video output into a single HDMI output solution to bring a true audio video experience with full HD 1080p video and full digital audio 5.1 support. Powered by USB so no external power source is needed.

Features
Design for Apple® Unibody 2009 Models. MacBook, MacBook Pro, Mac Mini, iMac
Supports Mini DisplayPort 1.1a input, USB 2.0, Apple® Mini Jack Optical Audio Input
Input Video Signal: Mini DisplayPort
Input Audio Signal: Apple® Mini Jack
Supports HDMI 165MHz/1.65Gbps per channel (4.95 Gbps all channel) bandwidth
Supports HDMI resolution of up to 1080p
Supports HDMI 8 bit per channel (24 bit all channel) deep color
Supports uncompressed 5.1 channel audio such as LPCM
Supports compressed 5.1 channel audio such as DTS Digital, Dolby Digital

http://kanexlive.com/products/item.aspx?id=3495

I'm buying a 27 in January and hope the issue will be resolved by then
Yes, that should work. But that adapter is for OUTPUT, not INPUT.
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Old Oct 26, 2009, 03:35 PM   #127
fpnc
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Originally Posted by bajee View Post
guys how about this?

made by belkin:

http://catalog.belkin.com/IWCatProdu...uct_Id=508267#
That's been posted and discussed a few times already. In any case, it looks like that page has now been removed.
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Old Oct 26, 2009, 03:45 PM   #128
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Originally Posted by glitch44 View Post
That's an interesting find. However, I'd call it very preliminary since at first that user didn't even know how to switch into target display mode. Further, it looks like his iMac has been damaged -- broken cover glass and offset ports -- it could have been dropped.

In any case, it's not encouraging but I'd find it difficult to believe that Apple would produce a non-standard DisplayPort that would work only with Apple's products. Some things that I would try, switch into target display mode before attaching the display or perhaps reboot the PC after switching into target display mode.
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Old Oct 26, 2009, 03:52 PM   #129
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i dont understand why you need some sort of active converter?

can someone explain that?


Right now i have a samsung 1920X1200 monitor and it can display 1080P sources with no issue either though HDMI or DVI.

i understand there will need to be an adaptor for the hdmi-mini display port, but why does it have to be some complicated device?
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Old Oct 26, 2009, 04:02 PM   #130
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Here are a couple cheap Atlona DVI to mini DP active Converters on ebay if anybody is wanting to try it with the scalers...
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...#ht_500wt_1182

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...#ht_500wt_1182
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Old Oct 26, 2009, 04:36 PM   #131
dr.strangelove
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Belkin Active Adapter Information

First of all, hello to everyone! Sorry, that's owing to the fact that I'm new to your forum.

I've been following your discussion for quite some time now and hope we will find out soon about the Mini DisplayPort Input function.

Sorry guys, can't give you additional news here so far, for my iMac is "shipping in November" .

Concerning that right now received opinion is that an active adapter (most probably with a scaler included) is needed for our wettest of dreams I was thrilled to see that Belkin was developping such an active adapter. As the official reading at Belkin's webpage was somehow encouraging that they might have solved the problems we are discussing/speculating about, I don't feel so well hearing that the link has been suspended.

For all those of you, who want to have another look at the official description, I saved a copy from my cache, which I will post below.



----------------------------------------
Belkin HDMI to Mini Display Port Adaptor
----------------------------------------
Part # F2CD007


Overview:
---------
Belkin’s new HDMI to Mini DisplayPort Adapter allows you to view HD content from your Blu-ray player, PS3, or cable box on your Apple LED-backlit widescreen monitor.

The adapter takes High Definition Multimedia Interface (HDMI) content and converts it to the Mini DisplayPort format needed for the new MacBook Pro, MacBook Air, and new Mac desktops.

Because it enables high definition AV performance on your Apple LED-backlit Display, the Belkin HDMI to Mini DisplayPort Adapter provides you the option to use it like a digital TV.


Features:
---------
Converts the HDMI signal from any HDMI source—such as a Blu-ray player or an Xbox—and enables you to view it on the new Apple display.

Creates an all-digital connection between HDMI source devices, such as DVD players, DVD recorders, gaming systems, digital set-top boxes, satellite TV receivers and A/V receivers with the Apple display.

Belkin’s Mini DisplayPort to Mini DisplayPort cable can also be used independent of the Adapter to extend the video from your MacBook to your iMac LED-backlit display for an expanded desktop.


Specs:
------
Package Includes

Belkin HDMI to Mini Display Port Adapter

4ft Mini DisplayPort to Mini DisplayPort cable

4ft USB cable
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	Belkin HDMI to Mini Display Port Adaptor.jpg
Views:	9243
Size:	25.9 KB
ID:	200535  
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Old Oct 26, 2009, 04:43 PM   #132
bajee
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hmm, that's the exact adapter that I was talking about on the previous page, the one I provided link of.


Anyway after some googling, I stumble upon this forum, saying that he was able to output his PC rig to the new iMac 27 inch

http://www.hardforum.com/showthread.php?p=1034805012

Quoting from this
Quote:
I used this adapter, and it worked just fine.

http://www.ramelectronics.net/audio-...MDPORTDVI.html

I buy all of my adapters/cables from Ram. Nice that I can just drive over and pick them up, they make most products in their warehouse.

I have not tried to connect a Blue Ray or XBox 360 to it, only the output from my 5870 on my gaming rig and it looked great.
so it seems that adapter will actually work, and this is actually output to iMac. So hurray for us, a 15$ adapter will just work fine
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Old Oct 26, 2009, 05:06 PM   #133
dr.strangelove
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Too stupid this guy didn't answer any of the questions which are the burning issue to all of us, namely

1. What is the native resolution output by his PC? 2560 x 1440? Probably not, because the specs of the cable say "Support DVI highest video resolution 1080p"!
2. If not, did he use "normal" 1920 x 1080 as resolution on the iMac instead? Probably, because the iMac is very unlikely to be able to upscale.

Even if this passive cable thing worked, most folks of us still would have the resolution problems, for nearly every HDMI peripheral such as a Blu-Ray-Player, DVD-Player, etc. won't output the native iMac resolution. And using the 27'' iMac with only 1920 x 1080 is NOT to be considered. On the other side: no input lag...

GRRRR, can't wait until January or whatever date...

Last edited by dr.strangelove; Oct 26, 2009 at 05:26 PM.
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Old Oct 26, 2009, 05:37 PM   #134
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In addition to Belkin's cooking: News from Atlona anticipated by the end of the year:

(Quote from description how to hook up a PS3 to an LED Cinema Display)

"For any DVI-enabled Mac or PC all you will need is there new DVI to Mini DisplayPort Converter.

Now for the PS3 it is a little more complicated. You can't simply use just the DVI to Mini DP Converter, because the LED Cinema Display doesn't support any of the resolutions output by the PS3. So to fix this you need their HDMI Scaler.

I currently have both of these devices to use my PS3 with my LED Cinema Display and I am extremely pleased with the outcome. The picture quality is absolutely amazing. This is absolutely the best display to use with a PS3.

As of now using these two devices with the proper cables is the only solution for connecting a PS3 to the LED Cinema Display and getting a full 1080p picture.

Atlona says though that they will be releasing a new device which combines the functionality of these two devices into one and they estimate that it will cost $200-250 (It should be available by the end of the year). It will also allow you to keep your Mini DP enabled computer and HDMI enabled device plugged into the box simultaneously and will have a switch to allow you to choose which one is displayed on the screen."

LATEST SUMMARY:
------------------
1. $15.95 DVI female to mini Displayport male Adapter, NO scaling function, highest resolution supported is 1080p
2. $ 200++? Belkin's active HDMI adapter (see above), NEITHER positive NOR negative information on scaling functionality!!!
3. & 200-250? Atlona's active HDMI adapter, NO positive information about upscaling functionality to iMac's native 2560 x 1440!!!
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Old Oct 26, 2009, 05:58 PM   #135
fpnc
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Originally Posted by bajee View Post
hmm, that's the exact adapter that I was talking about on the previous page, the one I provided link of.

Anyway after some googling, I stumble upon this forum, saying that he was able to output his PC rig to the new iMac 27 inch

http://www.hardforum.com/showthread.php?p=1034805012

Quoting from this

so it seems that adapter will actually work, and this is actually output to iMac. So hurray for us, a 15$ adapter will just work fine
You weren't the first, that link has been provided many times before. However, dr.strangelove was providing the details since that link now appears to be "dead."

Second, if that person on hardforum got the video input on the iMac to work it was because his PC had a video card (ATI 5870) that has a DisplayPort output. It has nothing to do with a "$15 adapter [that] will work just fine" with just any form of input (i.e. DVI/HDMI).

Lastly, the link to the RAM Electornics site is to a video output adapter and that won't work for the iMac's video input. I suspect the original poster made a mistake when he tried to link to the adapter/cable he was actually using (if he was going from DisplayPort on his PC to Mini DisplayPort on the iMac then he would only need a simple cable to bridge the differences in the connector). Either that, or he was actually talking about video output from his iMac.
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Old Oct 26, 2009, 06:19 PM   #136
dr.strangelove
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fpnc View Post
Lastly, the link to the RAM Electornics site is to a video output adapter and that won't work for the iMac's video input. I suspect the original poster made a mistake when he tried to link to the adapter/cable he was actually using (if he was going from DisplayPort on his PC to Mini DisplayPort on the iMac then he would only need a simple cable to bridge the differences in the connector). Either that, or he was actually talking about video output from his iMac.
At first, I also thought it was an MDP OUT to DVI IN cable, but was stunned to read that it's actually the other way round: "Support Mini DisplayPort 1.1a input and DVI output"

Can't be for $ 15... I'm a little bit confused here...

UPDATE: Sorry for all the mess, got it... you have to look from the view of the cable, I'm a cable right now... ****, it's getting late...
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Old Oct 26, 2009, 06:28 PM   #137
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fpnc View Post
That's been posted and discussed a few times already. In any case, it looks like that page has now been removed.
You can still search on the product number:

http://www.belkin.com/search/?q=508267&sid=1

This is the description which still pops up:

Coming soon ! Belkin’s new HDMI to Mini DisplayPort Adapter allows you to view HD content from your Blu-ray player, PS3, or cable box on your Apple LED-backlit widescreen monitor.
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Old Oct 26, 2009, 06:47 PM   #138
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Originally Posted by dr.strangelove View Post
At first, I also thought it was an MDP OUT to DVI IN cable, but was stunned to read that it's actually the other way round: "Support Mini DisplayPort 1.1a input and DVI output"

Can't be for $ 15... I'm a little bit confused here...
The listing on RAM Electronics is a bit muddled but I think it is clear that this is an output adapter (adapts the Mac's Mini DisplayPort output connector to DVI). Further, I'm certain what they mean by this:
Quote:
Support Mini DisplayPort 1.1a input and DVI output
is that the connector on the adapter is a Mini Display input which is then adapted to a DVI output and that's what I'd call a simple ouput adapter.

I've actually seen some other online retailers make the same mistake, inferring that their simple adapter will convert a standard DVI input to a DisplayPort output. However, there is no way you can directly feed a raw HDMI/DVI signal stream into a DisplayPort input (well, at least when expecting it to work). You can, however, pass through or enclose a DVI signal within the DisplayPort protocol. This is how Apple's existing output adapters work with DVI and VGA. In any case, it does not appear that pass through of HDMI or DVI signals is enabled on the iMac's video input. HDMI would be particularly difficult as you'd have to scale the HDMI input up to the full 2560x1440 resolution on the iMac's display.
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Old Oct 26, 2009, 06:58 PM   #139
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VGA to Mini DisplayPort

I assume a VGA adapter won't work as it's an analog signal?
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Old Oct 26, 2009, 06:59 PM   #140
Meriana
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we must make here a difference between modern videocards and devices like gaming consoles etc.

In the computer world most simple adapters work because the video card detects what sort of port its attached over to a display. Eg. even if you connect a video card via dvi out and over a vga adapter to the vga port of a display, the video card knows that it must send the signals in vga mode. I think it's called plug & play. The same is true for the displayport. the ati radeon 5870 is capaple of sending displayport compatible signals, so that works with a cheap adapter. However a xbox or a blue-ray player is not capaple to do that and you'll need an active converter so change the signals...

Correct me if i'm completly wrong...
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Old Oct 26, 2009, 07:18 PM   #141
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Originally Posted by Meriana View Post
we must make here a difference between modern videocards and devices like gaming consoles etc.

In the computer world most simple adapters work because the video card detects what sort of port its attached over to a display. Eg. even if you connect a video card via dvi out and over a vga adapter to the vga port of a display, the video card knows that it must send the signals in vga mode. I think it's called plug & play. The same is true for the displayport. the ati radeon 5870 is capaple of sending displayport compatible signals, so that works with a cheap adapter. However a xbox or a blue-ray player is not capaple to do that and you'll need an active converter so change the signals...

Correct me if i'm completly wrong...
I don't think a manufacturer would enable DisplayPort over a DVI output connector. You might be able to attempt that but I doubt that it would be compatible with the DVI spec (but I don't know for certain). However, the ATI 5870 has a native DisplayPort connector and I expect that should work with the iMac's input (with the proper cable to convert between the full-size DisplayPort and the Mini DisplayPort on the iMac). As I said before, I suspect that the person who said he got it to work just linked to the wrong adapter. Either that, or when referring to that adapter he was talking about output from the iMac to another display.
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Old Oct 26, 2009, 07:32 PM   #142
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I assume a VGA adapter won't work as it's an analog signal?
I'm pretty certain that I've seen a few analog-to-digital video converters but they are very expensive and don't make much sense as you gain nothing in making the conversion (other than allowing the continued use of an analog video card). In this case, you'd be much better off with a new video card that supported DVI/HDMI or DisplayPort directly.

However, for output Apple's existing Mini DisplayPort-to-VGA adapter should allow you to connect the iMac to a VGA display. I can do that today with my MacBook's Mini DisplayPort output. Yes, VGA output can be enabled with the correct adapter. Here is the statement from Apple's website:

Quote:
Mini DisplayPort output port with support for DVI, VGA, and dual-link DVI (adapters sold separately).
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Old Oct 26, 2009, 08:14 PM   #143
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If this is true the new 27" iMac will not support any device except one that outputs Displayport. If this is true, only PCs or other systems that have displayport connection will work.

Perhaps this explains why an active adapter "might" work but it certainly seems that Apple will not support it.

Cheers,
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Old Oct 26, 2009, 08:23 PM   #144
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One of the most annoying things about this is, when I rang apple to check a few things, I specifically asked if I could connect an xbox360 by either vga or DVI, and the guy said yes!

I'll probably still get one, and if at some point it does work, then it'll be a bonus.
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Old Oct 26, 2009, 08:35 PM   #145
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If this is true the new 27" iMac will not support any device except one that outputs Displayport. If this is true, only PCs or other systems that have displayport connection will work.

Perhaps this explains why an active adapter "might" work but it certainly seems that Apple will not support it.

Cheers,
I'm sure it is true. Frankly, although welcomed as a way to spread the message, the AppleInsider article just seems to be a restatement of what many of us have been saying since late last week.
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Old Oct 26, 2009, 08:41 PM   #146
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One of the most annoying things about this is, when I rang apple to check a few things, I specifically asked if I could connect an xbox360 by either vga or DVI, and the guy said yes!

I'll probably still get one, and if at some point it does work, then it'll be a bonus.
That doesn't surprise me. I've seen prior reports of Apple saying the same thing about the 24" Cinema Display (with its Mini DisplayPort input). In any case, dr.strangelove has actually connected his PS3 to the Cinema Display, except that it cost him $400 to do so.
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Old Oct 27, 2009, 04:26 AM   #147
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In any case, dr.strangelove has actually connected his PS3 to the Cinema Display, except that it cost him $400 to do so.
Gotta correct that, not my credits, just quoted from someone who did that.

Additional information: This method only works because the input signal (PS3, 1920 x 1080, 16:9) is converted (HDMI>>>DVI>>>Mini DisplayPort) AND scaled to the native resolution of the LED Cinema display (1920 x 1200, 16:10).

Surfing around several forums, it is rumoured that the Atlona Converter does NOT work with the iMac 27'', because all it does is adapting the signal from HDMI/DVI to MDP and thus passing through the original resolution.

Some ideas here:
----------------
1st: In order to find out whether the problem is the discrepancy between input resolution and native resolution only, someone should try the Atlona Converter with a native iMac resolution of 1920 x 1080.

2nd: I don't believe that there are (m)any scalers on the market which scale a signal up to 2560 x 1440 (graphic cards may, but that won't be a solution for your standalone peripherals such as Blu-ray players, DVD players, gaming consoles, etc.)

3rd: I'd like to toss out the question to you techies out there how the hell that target display mode works with a MacBook Pro running natively in - let's say 1080p? I guess it works because in the MBP's tech specs it says "Dual display and video mirroring: Simultaneously supports full native resolution on the built-in display and up to 2560 by 1600 pixels on an external display, both at millions of colors". So is the miracle just the ability of the MBP's graphic card to double output different resolutions? In this case: 1080p to the MBP's own display and 2560 x 1440 to the 27'' iMac?

Correct me if I'm wrong here but if that is the case, prospects seem to shrink unless someone will come up with a converter that is also able to scale up to the 2560 x 1440!? Maybe (just wild speculation) that was the reason for Belkin to dismiss the information of the planned converter. Maybe they thought the iMac's display could handle lower resolutions in the same aspect ratio...? Now that they've seen it does not, they might be stuck?

Answers?
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Old Oct 27, 2009, 05:26 AM   #148
Meriana
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Thats a point, can't the imac not display smaller resolutions, it shouldn't be a problem, expect that the picture quality won't be as good as in natvie resolution. Maybe Apple is preventing it because it doesn't want people to see pictures from a ps3 on its display and saying after wards, that this are bad displays? Anyone with a new imac and a pc with a 5870 has tried to run the display on lower resolutions?

As said in the appleinsider pagel inked above, Displayport is an entirely different format and the displays apple uses only support this, and don't support dvi input at all. While Graphiccards normaly are designed to output different video formats, standalone devices like a xbox 360 or a ps3 aren't. While its possible to use the same output for different formats with matching converters, it won't work the other way round, because the dispaly wouldn't know what to do with the informations it gets if it doesn't support the incoming format.
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Old Oct 27, 2009, 06:18 AM   #149
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This may make useful reading (sorry if it's been posted already)

Tests confirm Apple's 27" iMac only supports DisplayPort input
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Old Oct 27, 2009, 08:24 AM   #150
moritzbaer
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Okay.....
But I would wait until the new hdmi to mini display port comes out.
And I asked somebody in the Apple Store and he said it will be work so fine....
( I want to connect the xbox 360 to my LED Cinema Display).
I think its the perfect way to do it......
And the price is also okay....
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