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Apple Closing Quickly on Research in Motion in Smart Phone Market Share

I see a lot of kids now carrying BlackBerry phones, and I'm starting to see a lot of Facebook status updates followed with 'posted with Facebook for BlackBerry', so RIM must be doing something right.

Still, I'm rocking my iPhone 2G, and still loving it 😎
 
kdarling said:
This.

For example, RIM continues to grow at its usual rate, or better. They're not selling less.

But the overall market total is growing, and many people who would otherwise not have a smartphone, are getting iPhones. They're almost a group unto themselves.

It's like when the Internet was opened up to AOL folk. It didn't make the number of regular users any less, it's just that there was suddenly a big AOL percentage, as part of a new and larger overall total.
Click to expand...

The future problem for BB is twofold:

1. Big Business is not even remotely growing at the same rate as the consumer market which means that BB will continue growing at a slower rate than other smartphones who appeal to the general consumer. At the point within the next 5-10 years when the market starts to mature, what happens when all the consumers start pushing to have their own personal phones in the workplace as some are already doing with the iPhone?

2. The iPhone, with all it's success, is still only on one carrier. Even RIM has conceded in one of their quarterly earnings report that their revenues would dip if this happened. We haven't even seen yet what Palm and Android can do because they are still yet. Android just introduced Exchange support in 2.0 as well.

It's clear that BB has trouble for them in the future. They may be trying to build a better browser with Webkit but I don't think that will be enough. For as advanced as some features of the BB may be, it's OS and design are archaic. They will still continue to get the older business crowd who is set in their ways, but is that enough?
 
entropys said:
Intersting interpretation. To me it looks like Apple hasn't hurt RIM all that much (% market share belonging to RIM hasn't changed all that much), but has caused Palm no end of grief and it doesn't provide any info on Symbian, Android or Winmo.

Not enough info here to be useful.

The key RIM advantage of course is that many workplaces will not allow or provide an iphone for their network, but will allow/provide a RIM device.
Click to expand...

Watch the iPhone will become a company 'perk'
 
Him

KingYaba said:
What the heck happened to Palm?
Click to expand...

There is a lot of finger pointing but a lot point at the ex-CEO who pushed the Cobalt OS development, trashed it burning man-decades of project development for nothing and then resigned.

This put them a generation behind, no major product releases for two to three years and a mad rush to make a new kernel to get something out. WebOS is their home grown baby and we all shall see how the post-Hawkins Palm survives.

I think Jeff should give up on his brain-chip Numenta and come back to Palm to run it right. We shall see if that happens.
 
Eriamjh1138@DAN said:
170007-rim_apple_palm_share.gif


That is one impressive graph, Apple.
Click to expand...

Yes it is. While RIM had a good poker face, the launch of the iPhone shook that place down to the foundation. Anyone that says less doesn't know the full story.

They scrambled to get out a work alike out (the Storm) but ended up just overloading their shipping architecture with UI features that didn't balance well and a click screen that not many cared for when it came out.

IMO, Jobs sees RIM like the monolithic IBM he fought in his youth. This is going to be a good one!
 
impressive as that chart may be, it's still only US market share. Macrumours should dig up the global market share as well. Then there will be other players in the chart as well, with the likes of Nokia, Sony-Ericsson etc.

Would be interesting to see Apples performance against them as well. No doubt Apple is catching up and is also doing well globally. Somebody just needs to dig up the charts!
 
CFreymarc said:
IMO, Jobs sees RIM like the monolithic IBM he fought in his youth.
Click to expand...

Those who don't know history are doomed to make it up, apparently.... There was no "monolithic IBM" for Jobs or anyone else to fight, not in the personal computer market anyway. In the late '70s, the TRS-80 from Radio Shack was the most dominant computer. In 1983-1984, the Commodore 64 was the most dominant computer. By the time PC clones became dominant (a year or two later), IBM itself only had a portion of the clone market. Also, here's a direct Steve Jobs quote: "RIM is a good company that makes good products."

--Eric
 
It's not "smart phone", it's "smartphone".

Anyway, this all looks good. RIM are having to try selling their phones to teenagers now, and looking at how their marketshare is starting to drop, I now see why. Soon RIMs product range will just be full of cash cows because their brand is just getting beat by Apple!
 
CFreymarc said:
Yes it is. While RIM had a good poker face, the launch of the iPhone shook that place down to the foundation. Anyone that says less doesn't know the full story.

They scrambled to get out a work alike out (the Storm) but ended up just overloading their shipping architecture with UI features that didn't balance well and a click screen that not many cared for when it came out.

IMO, Jobs sees RIM like the monolithic IBM he fought in his youth. This is going to be a good one!
Click to expand...

I've used the Storm, and let me tell you, it's horrible. Even navigating a webpage is frustrating, and for some reason some text feilds and buttons didn't want to work in the browser. The UI, click screen, keyboard (largely because of that screen) are simply CRAP.

My friend had one and it ran out of battery when he needed to send a e-mail, so I let him do it on my iPhone, and he found it to be a pleasent change! He got rid of that Storm a month or two later, but because of the contract his company has, he still has a BlackBerry.
 
jlindstrom said:
impressive as that chart may be, it's still only US market share. Macrumours should dig up the global market share as well.
Click to expand...

the truth is more sad. it's not even us market share. it's market share among the respondents of the study, and those respondents are not selected using any statistically valid method. the study is completely worthless. why macrumors publishes this crap is mystery, publishing this crap under headline "iphone marketshare" is beyond misleading.
 
MacFly123 said:
Facts:

-iPhone is being deployed in over 50% of the fortune 100.
-Small businesses are the backbone of America and the iPhone has made huge inroads in small businesses. I can't even count how many people I personally know that use iPhones for their small business.
-Over 350 higher education institutions have approved iPhones for faculty, staff, and students. Many are implementing curriculum through the iPhone and even issue them to students.
-iPhone just won J.D. Power and Associates award for highest satisfaction in business smart phones.
-iPhone has killed BlackBerry and all other phones in various satisfaction surveys, including business use.

The truth is RIM is desperate to get into the consumer market and has been trying with the Pearl and now Storm and Storm 2, but is failing badly!

Either way you look at it, saying iPhone isn't coming into the corporate world strong is nothing short of delusional! 🙄
Click to expand...

Post your sources. I call BS on your point #1.

I work for one of the largest banks & wealth management companies in the US and just as my company, other huge corporations will not allow iPhones for business because they cannot control what the users do on the phones with policies. On the BB they lock it down as far as messaging and apps. They cant lock down the iPhone. Their corporate users are able to use it for pleasure and put whatever apps on it they want. Therein lies the problem. Apple will never open the iPhone to being controlled by anyone but themselves. They wont give corporations the power to block the app store, or restrict other features of the iPhone. Thats why I dont see Apple taking over RIM in the corporate world.

I do agree with you that small businesses are more inclined to allow thier employees to use iPhones, but even then I dont believe the small business users using iPhones will outnumber the number of employees at huge corporations. I know several people that are given the choice at their (small) company to use whatever phone they want as long as they can get email, and thus have the option to use the iPhone.
 
If you believe the chart, then RIM's performance is remarkable, because they've kept the same marketshare percentage even as the number of smartphone users has skyrocketed with the influx of iPhones.

In other words, RIM had to sell a lot of phones to pretty much keep up their percentage of the total.

So, while Apple came in late and thus must have an upward line, RIM's numerical sales have increased correspondingly.

Three Blackberry models are consistently in the top five selling USA smartphones, with the Curve usually at number one, and iPhone at number two. Even the Storm is usually in the top seven, and that's the old model.

Predictions however, are that RIM's share will continue to slowly drop, Apple's to slowly rise, while Android eclipses both by 2012. We'll see.
 
CFreymarc said:
There is a lot of finger pointing but a lot point at the ex-CEO who pushed the Cobalt OS development, trashed it burning man-decades of project development for nothing and then resigned.

This put them a generation behind, no major product releases for two to three years and a mad rush to make a new kernel to get something out. WebOS is their home grown baby and we all shall see how the post-Hawkins Palm survives.

I think Jeff should give up on his brain-chip Numenta and come back to Palm to run it right. We shall see if that happens.
Click to expand...

And they hurt themselves by releasing the same form factor phones and only having the old Palm OS and WinMo as the OS choices, like you said being behind.

See Palms market share in 2006? That is when they had the Treo 700wx with WinMo and I think it was the 650 with Palm OS, both in the same front qwerty form factor, which at its time was probably the best form factor, especially for business, and also the OS' were good back then. What happened? They didnt innovate or change. They kept the same form factor (just removed antenna stub) and kept the old aging Palm OS and WinMo. Obviously things were changing in 2007 and beyond with all of the new smartphones and at the time in 2007 the current Palm offerings were just extremely outdated. By the time they got the Pre and Web OS out the door, its pretty much too late. The Pre also isnt selling as hot as they would like because of their hardware. From what Ive seen with the Pre sales numbers its probably only a matter of time before Palm is extinct, which makes me sad. I still have my Palm Treo 700wx and I remember the good ol Palm days.
 
JoJoCal19 said:
Post your sources. I call BS on your point #1.

I work for one of the largest banks & wealth management companies in the US and just as my company, other huge corporations will not allow iPhones for business because they cannot control what the users do on the phones with policies. On the BB they lock it down as far as messaging and apps. They cant lock down the iPhone. Their corporate users are able to use it for pleasure and put whatever apps on it they want. Therein lies the problem. Apple will never open the iPhone to being controlled by anyone but themselves. They wont give corporations the power to block the app store, or restrict other features of the iPhone. Thats why I dont see Apple taking over RIM in the corporate world.

I do agree with you that small businesses are more inclined to allow thier employees to use iPhones, but even then I dont believe the small business users using iPhones will outnumber the number of employees at huge corporations. I know several people that are given the choice at their (small) company to use whatever phone they want as long as they can get email, and thus have the option to use the iPhone.
Click to expand...

25gbbxx.jpg


My brother is high up on the corporate ladder at TD Bank and they sure use BlackBerry. He even showed me his corporate-issued BB; forget the exact model.
 
JoJoCal19 said:
I work for one of the largest banks & wealth management companies in the US and just as my company, other huge corporations will not allow iPhones for business because they cannot control what the users do on the phones with policies. On the BB they lock it down as far as messaging and apps.
Click to expand...

If Google allows an IT department to "lock down" an Android 2.0 phone so you couldn't add or remove apps, it could make it VERY desirable for large business organizations. That right there could effectively shut out the iPhone from use by corporations.
 
spillproof said:
I never liked Motorola phones, but I am really anxious about how the Droid will affect the charts posted here. And the 4th generation iPhone. The iPhone have the same fate of the Razr - everyone has them, then a few years later, no one.
Click to expand...

Nope, sorry, the iPhone has one major difference to the RAZR in this case - its ecosystem. The RAZR was a normal mobile phone in a stunning party frock. When people got bored they could move on to the next device and get exactly the same functionality with no penalty. With the iPhone moving on involves saying goodbye to all your applications, docks etc, it's far more integrated with daily life than the RAZR ever was. Heck just being able to manage everything from iTunes is a major plus point for the iPhone when it comes to thinking about switching platforms. Plus Apple are notoriously good at revising hardware at the right time and in the right way to mantain consumer interest, just look at the iPod line for proof of that.

Where Android is going to come in (to answer an earlier post) is the Symbian and Windows Mobile shares. Both of those platforms are vulnerable right now with pretty much no unique selling points and both lagging a LONG way behind other operating systems in terms of meeting consumer expectations. Palm too needs to be careful, right now there's nothing beyond the excellent Web OS to keep people on that platform. There's no real killer app for it, the choice of applications is a LONG way down on everything else and there's issues with linking to iTunes that are going to be a major problem for joe public. If they don't capitalise on that platform soon they might get caught right in the middle of Android and Apple.

RIM will be fine but are probably going to become increasingly locked into the business market. They've got that one sewn up at the moment and I don't see major coroprations rushing to get rid of their nice managed Blackberries and their investment in infrastructure to switch to an iPhone or Android device without there being a DAMN good reason to do so. Some will, sure, but for the vast majority RIM's product line does the job perfectly and I'm almost positive that's the market that will drive RIM going forward.
 
The storm was/is a horrible phone... look how quickly they brought out storm 2!! its suppose to be worlds better then the first one and im inclined to believe so since anything is better then crap.

Rim obviously got their boots shaken by the iphone which is why they pushed so hard for the "worlds first touchscreen blackberry" but sadly the iphone is just too dominant for the consumer based smartphone market.

My own experience is this... I had the storm for about 9 months, but after having enough of that crap, i went for the tour. The thought of getting the iphone never crossed my mind.... first of all, i loved being able stay on aim, gchat, and using BBM, not to mention email on the BB is simply brilliant. I do a decent amount of online selling via ebay, craigslist, etc and i love how instant the email is instead of waiting for it to poll or subscribing to some 3rd party push email provider. the second reason being pretty obvious that the iphone isnt on VZW. Another reason i love the bb is the form factor... some say its outdated and ill agree, a touch screen phone may look slick and all but after typing on a bb, a touchscreen (at least at this point in technology) is nowhere near as accurate or reliable as a real keypad.

With all that said, i love the fact that the iPhone is doing so well. It has really been pushing RIM to make the bb more appealing and consumer friendly. Granted the app world is HORRIBLE compared to the app store, but they are definitely working on getting there. If the iphone eventually came out with the ability to run background apps and get real push email from the getgo, then i would be way more likely to consider, but as for now, i enjoy the competition both apple and Android will be bringing to the smartphone industry as competition is almost always a good thing.
 
iPhone 62S said:
It's not "smart phone", it's "smartphone".

Anyway, this all looks good. RIM are having to try selling their phones to teenagers now, and looking at how their marketshare is starting to drop, I now see why. Soon RIMs product range will just be full of cash cows because their brand is just getting beat by Apple!
Click to expand...

Umm the quote below does make an interesting point. RIM market share has stated about the same give or take a little even with the huge growth in the market. With the exploding growth in the smart phone market going on and RIM still holding around 40% of the US market that says something.

Also RIM is going going to sacrifice it makes advantage it has over all other smart phones just to compete with the iPhone. RIM will not turn its back on its corporate clinics and giving up the control IT departments can put on the BB.

On think RIM has is they are the only phone that has true push email and they own the patents for it.

kdarling said:
If you believe the chart, then RIM's performance is remarkable, because they've kept the same marketshare percentage even as the number of smartphone users has skyrocketed with the influx of iPhones.

In other words, RIM had to sell a lot of phones to pretty much keep up their percentage of the total.

So, while Apple came in late and thus must have an upward line, RIM's numerical sales have increased correspondingly.

Three Blackberry models are consistently in the top five selling USA smartphones, with the Curve usually at number one, and iPhone at number two. Even the Storm is usually in the top seven, and that's the old model.

Predictions however, are that RIM's share will continue to slowly drop, Apple's to slowly rise, while Android eclipses both by 2012. We'll see.
Click to expand...

That is a good point. RIM has not lost any real market-share with the exploding grown of smart phones. the iPhone could easily be getting close to reaching it saturation market-share point like BB has at that point the growth of the number of people using the iPhone will be limited to the size of the market.
 
JoJoCal19 said:
Post your sources. I call BS on your point #1.

I work for one of the largest banks & wealth management companies in the US and just as my company, other huge corporations will not allow iPhones for business because they cannot control what the users do on the phones with policies. On the BB they lock it down as far as messaging and apps. They cant lock down the iPhone. Their corporate users are able to use it for pleasure and put whatever apps on it they want. Therein lies the problem. Apple will never open the iPhone to being controlled by anyone but themselves. They wont give corporations the power to block the app store, or restrict other features of the iPhone. Thats why I dont see Apple taking over RIM in the corporate world.

I do agree with you that small businesses are more inclined to allow thier employees to use iPhones, but even then I dont believe the small business users using iPhones will outnumber the number of employees at huge corporations. I know several people that are given the choice at their (small) company to use whatever phone they want as long as they can get email, and thus have the option to use the iPhone.
Click to expand...

macshill said:
25gbbxx.jpg


My brother is high up on the corporate ladder at TD Bank and they sure use BlackBerry. He even showed me his corporate-issued BB; forget the exact model.
Click to expand...

Haha, you guys really don't pay much attention to the news do you? This was just stated officially by Apple! 🙄

http://www.appleinsider.com/article...apples_q4_2009_quarterly_conference_call.html

http://www.appleinsider.com/article...iphone_competitors_still_fail_to_compete.html

Also, you might want to take a closer look at the iPhone's configuration utility for enterprise, its ad hock abilities, and restrictions settings!

http://www.apple.com/iphone/how-to/index.html#settings.restrictions

http://www.apple.com/iphone/how-to/index.html#settings.restrictions

Anything else you wanna call BS on lol? 🙄
 
MacFly123 said:
Anything else you wanna call BS on lol? 🙄
Click to expand...

Yes. Your failure to understand the difference between 'deploy' and 'choose as the preferred communications platform'. Piloting means testing it for suitability to access a corporate network. It'll then go on the approved vendors list which is still light years away from becoming the platform of choice.

Don't believe everything you read especially if Apple Insider is your source.
 
kdarling said:
If you believe the chart, then RIM's performance is remarkable, because they've kept the same marketshare percentage even as the number of smartphone users has skyrocketed with the influx of iPhones.
Click to expand...

Even more so when you consider that these are RIM's consumer sales not their corporate sales.
 
BongoBanger said:
Yes. Your failure to understand the difference between 'deploy' and 'choose as the preferred communications platform'. Piloting means testing it for suitability to access a corporate network. It'll then go on the approved vendors list which is still light years away from becoming the platform of choice.

Don't believe everything you read especially if Apple Insider is your source.
Click to expand...

Very true.

Anything apple related from an Apple Fansite should never be used a proof. A non fanboy site is strongly recommended.
As for anything coming out of Apple mouth related to it. Well you sure as hell better not trust it. Apple has been caught multiple times in the past be far less than truth.
 
MacFly123 said:
Facts:

-iPhone is being deployed in over 50% of the fortune 100.
-Small businesses are the backbone of America and the iPhone has made huge inroads in small businesses. I can't even count how many people I personally know that use iPhones for their small business.
-Over 350 higher education institutions have approved iPhones for faculty, staff, and students. Many are implementing curriculum through the iPhone and even issue them to students.

The truth is RIM is desperate to get into the consumer market and has been trying with the Pearl and now Storm and Storm 2, but is failing badly!

Either way you look at it, saying iPhone isn't coming into the corporate world strong is nothing short of delusional! 🙄
Click to expand...

Do you have any proof of actual iPhone adoption in the corporate environment? Last I heard it was in testing but no announcement of the widespread adoption you claim here.

Do you have any proof that BB is failing in the consumer market? All i saw was your opinion.

I do think Apple is making inroads with the academic sector. But I cant state it is fact as confidently as you assert.

QCassidy352 said:
The fact is, RIM is selling more smartphones than ever before (even if they're losing market share - because the market is growing) and more of their sales are to consumers (both as a % of their own total sales and in absolute numbers) than ever before.
Click to expand...

This was my impression as well. While they don't score as well on consumer feedback surveys, they are still moving boatloads.

JoJoCal19 said:
Post your sources. I call BS on your point #1.

I work for one of the largest banks & wealth management companies in the US and just as my company, other huge corporations will not allow iPhones for business because they cannot control what the users do on the phones with policies. On the BB they lock it down as far as messaging and apps. They cant lock down the iPhone. Their corporate users are able to use it for pleasure and put whatever apps on it they want. Therein lies the problem. Apple will never open the iPhone to being controlled by anyone but themselves. They wont give corporations the power to block the app store, or restrict other features of the iPhone. Thats why I dont see Apple taking over RIM in the corporate world.

I do agree with you that small businesses are more inclined to allow thier employees to use iPhones, but even then I dont believe the small business users using iPhones will outnumber the number of employees at huge corporations. I know several people that are given the choice at their (small) company to use whatever phone they want as long as they can get email, and thus have the option to use the iPhone.
Click to expand...

Agreed. I have travelled to numerous Fortune 100 client offices and I do not see this rapid expansion discussed here. I think MacFly is gravely mistaken. I can, however, see their adoption in smaller businesses where activesync may be easier to adopt than BES. But even at my smaller organization, we support iPhone but our company will only buy BB.

macshill said:
My brother is high up on the corporate ladder at TD Bank and they sure use BlackBerry. He even showed me his corporate-issued BB; forget the exact model.
Click to expand...

Im in NYC and i see the same anecdotal evidence here in finance, pharmaceutical, retail and insurance clients I interact with.

MacFly123 said:
Haha, you guys really don't pay much attention to the news do you? This was just stated officially by Apple! 🙄

http://www.appleinsider.com/article...apples_q4_2009_quarterly_conference_call.html

http://www.appleinsider.com/article...iphone_competitors_still_fail_to_compete.html

Anything else you wanna call BS on lol? 🙄
Click to expand...

How does "Over 50 percent of the Fortune 100 are deploying a pilot program of the iPhone." = iphone is being deployed to half of the Fortune 100? I dont think you made the proper extrapolation from that statistic.

BongoBanger said:
Yes. Your failure to understand the difference between 'deploy' and 'choose as the preferred communications platform'. Piloting means testing it for suitability to access a corporate network. It'll then go on the approved vendors list which is still light years away from becoming the platform of choice.
Click to expand...

Exactly. He made quite the leap based on that tidbit of information.


I think the iphone is a capable device and I enjoyed mine when it wasn't behaving or showed comparatively poor reception. That said, I think both RIM and Apple are doing extremely well at their target markets. The graph, if the results are indeed indicative of a larger market trend, are very positive for apple.
 
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