Any chance of a 4870?

[iMacmatician]

Originally Posted by Yixian

Is there any chance of a 4870 option in a new 15" MBP? BTO maybe? Perhaps if it lacks an optical drive there will be room?

Like the Mac mini, maybe a line with optical drives and a line without?

[harperjones99]

Originally Posted by Yixian

Ok so you're saying the 4870 won't fit inside the MBP without an increase in form factor? Is that because of the TDP?

How about the GTS 950M?

I found the 4870s TDP...160W...but even so the unit it self looks too big to fit in the current case's allocated space.

I don't see the GTS 950M on their site.

[Yixian]

Originally Posted by harperjones99

I found the 4870s TDP...160W...but even so the unit it self looks too big to fit in the current case's allocated space.

Yeah.. that's because you found the desktop 4870, we're talking about the mobile version.

http://www.notebookcheck.net/AMD-ATI...0.13974.0.html

TDP appears to be 65, too high. GTS 250M though is just 28 watt.

There must be some reason Apple didn't put it in the iMacs..

[harperjones99]

Originally Posted by Yixian

Yeah.. that's because you found the desktop 4870, we're talking about the mobile version.

Hah....SEE it WON'T fit

[feelthefire]

Originally Posted by Yixian

Yeah.. that's because you found the desktop 4870, we're talking about the mobile version.

http://www.notebookcheck.net/AMD-ATI...0.13974.0.html

TDP appears to be 65, too high. GTS 250M though is just 28 watt.

There must be some reason Apple didn't put it in the iMacs..

Going to go out on a limb here and guess that it's a thermal management issue.

There's a reason the dells, alienwares, etc have big ugly vents all over them...these cards run hot. iMac has better thermal management but it's still way inferior to an ATX tower. I'm going to make an educated guess that thickness has little to do with it and having to put ugly vents on, does.

[Yixian]

Originally Posted by feelthefire

Going to go out on a limb here and guess that it's a thermal management issue.

There's a reason the dells, alienwares, etc have big ugly vents all over them...these cards run hot. iMac has better thermal management but it's still way inferior to an ATX tower. I'm going to make an educated guess that thickness has little to do with it and having to put ugly vents on, does.

Isn't heat *largely* down to TDP? Nvidia have been touting the GTS 250M as being particularly cool for it's class.

Note: All current Alienware laptops use much more powerful GPUs with far higher TDPs than the 250M.

[feelthefire]

Originally Posted by Yixian

Isn't heat *largely* down to TDP? Nvidia have been touting the GTS 250M as being particularly cool for it's class.

Note: All current Alienware laptops use much more powerful GPUs with far higher TDPs than the 250M.

They're also much thicker than the macbook pro to accomodate larger fans and the casing is littered with open vents to increase airflow. The MBP and iMac have notoriously bad ventilation in comparison. That's how they can use bigger, hotter graphics cards.

I personally would NOT take a heavier or thicker laptop for some new fad graphics card, nor would I pay more. If you want to game that badly, it's time to accept that the mac platform is not for you.

[Yixian]

Originally Posted by feelthefire

They're also much thicker than the macbook pro to accomodate larger fans and the casing is littered with open vents to increase airflow. The MBP and iMac have notoriously bad ventilation in comparison. That's how they can use bigger, hotter graphics cards.

I personally would NOT take a heavier or thicker laptop for some new fad graphics card, nor would I pay more. If you want to game that badly, it's time to accept that the mac platform is not for you.

Rather than talking about Alienware, how about talking about the GTS 250M? You just keep rattling on about Alienware when nobody, including me, is asking for a GTX 260M...

Stay on topic.

[darngooddesign]

Originally Posted by Yixian

Rather than talking about Alienware, how about talking about the GTS 250M? You just keep rattling on about Alienware when nobody, including me, is asking for a GTX 260M...

Stay on topic.

He, and anyone mentioning AlienWare, is staying on topic. We are using them as an example of sticking really powerful, gamer-centric hardware in a laptop and getting a thick and heavy laptop as a result. Its easier than mentioning a specific Dell, for example, because hardly anyone would get the reference while AWs are universally known for being really powerful, but thick and heavy laptops.

You need to accept that by and large we don't want a heavier and thicker laptop just to get a better graphics card. Hell, despite that great screen I won't consider the 17" MBP because its physically more than I want to carry. Now if you could guarantee a better card without increasing the thickness and weight I'd be all about it, but I will not accept even a 1/4" more in thickness.

Originally Posted by Yixian

Isn't heat *largely* down to TDP? Nvidia have been touting the GTS 250M as being particularly cool for it's class.

Note: All current Alienware laptops use much more powerful GPUs with far higher TDPs than the 250M.

PS. You mentioned AW this time.

[namoeg]

This must come down to priority. While there's no doubt that the MBP gpus have improved, they are still not going to be considered top-of-the-line by anyone.

I have to think that if Apple really wanted to make big strides in this area, they'd approach Nvidia or AMD. They could then work together to produce a smaller video card that would both pack a major punch, and still fit into the overall vision for the MBP. But Apple isn't really in the business of catering to laptop gamers at the moment, that's just a fact.

[Yixian]

Originally Posted by darngooddesign

He, and anyone mentioning AlienWare, is staying on topic. We are using them
You need to accept that by and large we don't want a heavier and thicker laptop just to get a better graphics card.

Oh christ what is wrong with you... the question is, will the GTS 250M fit inside the MBPs current form factor. That's it, nothing else, stop with the thought terminating clichés.

[darngooddesign]

Originally Posted by Yixian

Oh christ what is wrong with you... the question is, will the GTS 250M fit inside the MBPs current form factor. That's it, nothing else, stop with the thought terminating clichés.

Don't get pissy just because we don't want thicker laptops.

I'll make this nice and simple so you can grasp it. Look at the 250's physical specs and if they are the same as the current chips then it might make it in a future revision. However, if its draw is too high or it runs too hot then it wont because Apple won't make a thicker laptop.

Its just that simple.

[Yixian]

Originally Posted by darngooddesign

Don't get pissy just because we don't want thicker laptops.

Joke post?

The question is if it will fit in the current form factor, lmao.. and we're talking about the 4830 too, not just the 250M. Plus we've already established that the 250M draws just 28watt.

Simple enough for you to comprehend now?

[Goettel]

If the 250M pulls just 28 W compared to the curent 9600M gt's 35W, I think we just might get Core i7 MBPs with 250M and about the same battery life as now.

[Yixian]

Battery life is more or less irrelevant now we can switch to integrated graphics when on the go.

MSI has fit the 250M into a 1.18" laptop and HP the 4830 into 1".

No excuse anymore.

[jsnuff1]

you guys can argue all you want, but when it comes down to it, its called the Macbook PRO, as in Professional.

Its a high end laptop aimed at graphic/movie/web design PROFESSIONALS. Just because you bought this laptop and it does your porn surfing/Brittany spears music playing fine does not mean that it does what it is DESIGNED to do well.

And everyone in these professions that bought this laptop for those reasons know what I am talking about. All the current MPB are what the Macbooks should have...and Apple needs to make a REAL Macbook PRO for us. They have skimped out on the graphics ever since the intel switch and its gone on long enough, and they really have no excuse anymore especially with OpenCL.

[iMacmatician]

Originally Posted by Yixian

Battery life is more or less irrelevant now we can switch to integrated graphics when on the go.

MSI has fit the 250M into a 1.18" laptop and HP the 4830 into 1".

No excuse anymore.

I think the next best thing (and probably the best that Apple could do) is to give three options while still within acceptable total TDP levels.

25 W CPU + higher-end GPU
35 W CPU + midrange GPU
45 W CPU + low-end GPU

Originally Posted by jsnuff1

Its a high end laptop aimed at graphic/movie/web design PROFESSIONALS. Just because you bought this laptop and it does your porn surfing/Brittany spears music playing fine does not mean that it does what it is DESIGNED to do well.

Isn't that where the other "Pro" Apple products are aimed at? Those products are also very powerful and high-end.

Also, things like display resolution and (from what I read here) ExpressCard are "pro" features that have little or nothing to do with heat or thickness.

[Yixian]

Originally Posted by iMacmatician

I think the next best thing (and probably the best that Apple could do) is to give three options while still within acceptable total TDP levels.

25 W CPU + higher-end GPU
35 W CPU + midrange GPU
45 W CPU + low-end GPU

There are no Arrandale CPUs with a higher TDP than 35 watt, and most are under 25 watt.

Perhaps this explains the 4870 in the iMac 27"? That is very nice card (although stretched too far by 27").

I suppose we might hope for better GPUs in any i7 MBPs!

The question in that case would be whether there's gonna be a 15" i7.

[iMacmatician]

Originally Posted by Yixian

There are no Arrandale CPUs with a higher TDP than 35 watt, and most are under 25 watt.

Clarksfield.

[Yixian]

Originally Posted by iMacmatician

Clarksfield.

Isn't Arrandale the only one with an iGPU? I think Apple want that for the power saving mode.

Arrandale is perfect for the MBPs, and allows for much else.

[Gatteau]

I like where this thread is heading.