Realistic Next MacBook Air

iDisk · Jan 2, 2010

With Much anticipation about the January 26th event lets say Apple decides to skip Arrandale in the revision of the MacBook Air and decides to stick with the current generation processors.

Here's a revised Air that would make me much more eager to buy, plus this seems more realistic:

New Low End:
2.0Ghz
2GB 1066Mhz DDR3 Ram
128 GB SSD
Nvidia 9400m or 200m
6hr battery life (If they can then obviously 7)
$1,399

New High End:
2.33Ghz
4GB 1066Mhz DDR3 Ram
160 GB SSD
Nvidia 9400m or 200m
6hr battery life (Again 7 would be more fitting)
$1,899

Also Apple should open up the pixel sensor more in the MacBooks in general, but especially the Air.( Apple has moved to using a sensor capable of 1280x1024 pixels, but when accessed using provided APIs, the image is re-sampled to 640x480 pixels. However, Quartz Composer allows access to the 1280x1024 pixel video stream.)

This would be a more realistic upgrade from the current models. Also I think this would satisfy lots of future MacBook Air owners and current.

What do the rest of the MacBook Air community think? (Current & Potential future buyers)

......

iDisk

:apple:

kennycheng93 · Jan 2, 2010

Mba

I want 4GB DDR3 and 256GB SSD.

theappleguy · Jan 3, 2010

If that was the new high end, I'd buy one tomorrow.

Jobsian · Jan 3, 2010

Very nice post iDisk

Hmm, I like the specs and you're trying to keep it more realistic with eg only a modest increase in SDD space (I don't know if there are any 256GB SSDs, I think even the Adamo XPS 256GB SSD is 2.5")

However one of my biggest concerns about the MBA is the heat. Current MBA CPUs are 45nm Penryn. For Apple to put an even faster 45nm processor would worry me, eg if I load up Youtube the thing'll cook I'm sure.

If you recall, initial benchmarks showed that the Rev C 1.86GHz MBA actually outperformed the 2.13GHz Rev C in quite a few areas, one of the reasons postulated was that the 2.13GHz required more aggressive thermal management.

Several other forumites wouldn't mind seeing another Penryn (and I guess if Apple insist on not using Arrandale, I would settle for it too) however I really hope they use a 32nm Arrandale. Positive effects on battery, heat and noise per-clock.

Here would be my hopeful highest spec:

New High End:
* Core i7-640LM - 2.13GHz - 2.93GHz Turbo. Custom, without Intel IGP (as discussed here)
* 4GB DDR3 Ram
* 160 or 256 GB SSD (higher performance and with technology eg TRIM (to avoid SSD speed deterioration)
* Latest ATI low TDP Graphics card
* Stunning design
* >6 hour battery
* Previously unknown compelling feature
* Any price

Instant purchase!

miniConvert · Jan 3, 2010

I still find my 1.8/SSD pretty incredible, if I'm honest. I only wish Apple had never made a HDD version, I feel that's where a lot of disappointment in the Air originated from.

4GB of RAM would be a nice improvement, but with a machine as portable as the Air the single biggest improvement for me would be integrated 3G. Having to carry dongles around is a pain in the arse.

zedsdead · Jan 3, 2010

If there is still an HDD version, the price should fall below the Macbook Pro. There is simply no reason for it to be higher anymore, as it has zero features that the pro does not have. When it first came out it had a better screen than the Macbook (both plastic and aluminum), it originally was the only Mac with the enlarged trackpad, had a black back-lit keyboard, and it was the first and only unibody design for a while. It made sense that it was priced between the Macbook and Macbook Pro.

Now that the Macbook Pro's have incorporated everything the Air had into it, the base model should be $999, with the SSD model's higher.

And fix the damn line and hinge problems Apple

, then I will consider switching back.

iDisk · Jan 3, 2010

kennycheng93 said:
I want 4GB DDR3 and 256GB SSD.

Wants and needs are much different KC93 (I'm sure you know that). I want a 12-core 16GB Ram 1TBSSD, highest end graphics, still keep the same peripherals though, Anodized black aluminum unibody (I miss the black macbook).

Though I really don't need that.

Jobsian said:
Very nice post iDisk

Hmm, I like the specs and you're trying to keep it more realistic with eg only a modest increase in SDD space (I don't know if there are any 256GB SSDs, I think even the Adamo XPS 256GB SSD is 2.5")

Thanks.....Actually their is a 1.8" Drive and much FASTER then the "Runcore" talked about in these forums. Micron Technologies have done very well over the past years. Their new drives were just announced Dec 9 2009 PLUS IT'S THE ONLY SATA 6 gb/s Interface Support

http://www.micron.com/products/real_ssd/ssd/client/index.aspx (The Annoucement/Video)

They will be released Q1 of this year and its a good Video BTW.

However one of my biggest concerns about the MBA is the heat. Current MBA CPUs are 45nm Penryn. For Apple to put an even faster 45nm processor would worry me, eg if I load up Youtube the thing'll cook I'm sure.

If you recall, initial benchmarks showed that the Rev C 1.86GHz MBA actually outperformed the 2.13GHz Rev C in quite a few areas, one of the reasons postulated was that the 2.13GHz required more aggressive thermal management.

Several other forumites wouldn't mind seeing another Penryn (and I guess if Apple insist on not using Arrandale, I would settle for it too) however I really hope they use a 32nm Arrandale. Positive effects on battery, heat and noise per-clock.

Here would be my hopeful highest spec:

New High End:
* Core i7-640LM - 2.13GHz - 2.93GHz Turbo. Custom, without Intel IGP (as discussed here)
* 4GB DDR3 Ram
* 160 or 256 GB SSD (higher performance and with technology eg TRIM (to avoid SSD speed deterioration)
* Latest ATI low TDP Graphics card
* Stunning design
* >6 hour battery
* Previously unknown compelling feature
* Any price

Instant purchase!

Apple could use these two Arrandale processors:

Low End Processor:

Core i5-520UM
The frequency is still 1066Mhz
Turbo 2.13
GPU Frequency is 500Mhz
L3 Cache at 3MB (Thats one hidden plus for the current Air, since it has 6MB L2 Cache)
18w TDP (Thermal Design Power) for those who don't know.

High End Processor:

Core i7-620UM
The frequency is still 1066Mhz
Turbo is still 2.13
GPU Frequency is still 500Mhz
4MB L3 Cache
18w TDP

... GRAPHICS ....

With ATI then we could see the ATI Mobility Radeon X1000 Series. Possible x1300 - x1400. Look for yourself

http://www.amd.com/us/products/notebook/graphics/ati-mobility-hd-x1000/Pages/ati-mobility-hd-x1000.aspx

miniConvert said:
I still find my 1.8/SSD pretty incredible, if I'm honest. I only wish Apple had never made a HDD version, I feel that's where a lot of disappointment in the Air originated from.

4GB of RAM would be a nice improvement, but with a machine as portable as the Air the single biggest improvement for me would be integrated 3G. Having to carry dongles around is a pain in the arse.

I'm hoping Apple sets the new standard and has all SSD in their next refresh for the MacBook Air

zedsdead said:
If there is still an HDD version, the price should fall below the Macbook Pro. There is simply no reason for it to be higher anymore, as it has zero features that the pro does not have. When it first came out it had a better screen than the Macbook (both plastic and aluminum), it originally was the only Mac with the enlarged trackpad, had a black back-lit keyboard, and it was the first and only unibody design for a while. It made sense that it was priced between the Macbook and Macbook Pro.

Now that the Macbook Pro's have incorporated everything the Air had into it, the base model should be $999, with the SSD model's higher.

And fix the damn line and hinge problems Apple, then I will consider switching back.

I was going to respond but noticed you were just ranting and not making to much sense, trying to compare an Air to a Pro.

MacModMachine · Jan 3, 2010

Jobsian said:
Very nice post iDisk

Hmm, I like the specs and you're trying to keep it more realistic with eg only a modest increase in SDD space (I don't know if there are any 256GB SSDs, I think even the Adamo XPS 256GB SSD is 2.5")

However one of my biggest concerns about the MBA is the heat. Current MBA CPUs are 45nm Penryn. For Apple to put an even faster 45nm processor would worry me, eg if I load up Youtube the thing'll cook I'm sure.

If you recall, initial benchmarks showed that the Rev C 1.86GHz MBA actually outperformed the 2.13GHz Rev C in quite a few areas, one of the reasons postulated was that the 2.13GHz required more aggressive thermal management.

Several other forumites wouldn't mind seeing another Penryn (and I guess if Apple insist on not using Arrandale, I would settle for it too) however I really hope they use a 32nm Arrandale. Positive effects on battery, heat and noise per-clock.

Here would be my hopeful highest spec:

New High End:
* Core i7-640LM - 2.13GHz - 2.93GHz Turbo. Custom, without Intel IGP (as discussed here)
* 4GB DDR3 Ram
* 160 or 256 GB SSD (higher performance and with technology eg TRIM (to avoid SSD speed deterioration)
* Latest ATI low TDP Graphics card
* Stunning design
* >6 hour battery
* Previously unknown compelling feature
* Any price

Instant purchase!

i dont think you will have to worry much about heat, the heatsink and fan cooling system in the air now was fairly rushed and impossible to change afterwards with its current design.

designing a new cooling system for it would not be difficult and would provide it with a much better thermal handling.

for instance, a smaller plate heatsink like the one in the air now could be moved by a tiny heatpipe into a copper rod/heatsink that could move along the back of the laptop to significantly drop the temperatures of it. this would not effect the battery , ssd/hdd or any other device because of its location.

i think the cooling system can be revamped and it will be.

zedsdead · Jan 3, 2010

I was going to respond but noticed you were just ranting and not making to much sense, trying to compare an Air to a Pro.

Could you give me one valid reason the Air costs more than a Pro, because there isn't one component in it that warrants the cost to be higher in the Air. There used to be many reasons, but that has changed due to the great updates to the Pro line.

As for the line and hinge problems, they are widespread and an embarrassment. I've owned three Rev A's, and two Rev B's, and I have had just about every single issue one can have with all the major faults the Air has had.

However, I will gladly buy one again if Apple actually corrects all of those faults (and some have been corrected, but the two biggest are still there).

I think the Macbook Air is going to be the first Apple laptop to go 16x9, but who know's.

iDisk · Jan 3, 2010

MacModMachine said:
i dont think you will have to worry much about heat, the heatsink and fan cooling system in the air now was fairly rushed and impossible to change afterwards with its current design.

designing a new cooling system for it would not be difficult and would provide it with a much better thermal handling.

for instance, a smaller plate heatsink like the one in the air now could be moved by a tiny heatpipe into a copper rod/heatsink that could move along the back of the laptop to significantly drop the temperatures of it. this would not effect the battery , ssd/hdd or any other device because of its location.

i think the cooling system can be revamped and it will be.

....I know this has nothing to do with my post, but your Avatar is hilarious and also your love of pies, where's that character from?.....

zedsdead said:
Could you give me one valid reason the Air costs more than a Pro, because there isn't one component in it that warrants the cost to be higher in the Air. There used to be many reasons, but that has changed due to the great updates to the Pro line.

As for the line and hinge problems, they are widespread and an embarrassment. I've owned three Rev A's, and two Rev B's, and I have had just about every single issue one can have with all the major faults the Air has had.

However, I will gladly buy one again if Apple actually corrects all of those faults (and some have been corrected, but the two biggest are still there).

I think the Macbook Air is going to be the first Apple laptop to go 16x9, but who know's.

Wow you fall into the 1 percentile that just couldn't catch a break. That's unfortunate to hear.

zedsdead · Jan 3, 2010

iDisk said:
....I know this has nothing to do with my post, but your Avatar is hilarious and also your love of pies, where's that character from?.....

Wow you fall into the 1 percentile that just couldn't catch a break. That's unfortunate to hear.

It's not 1%. Almost every, if not every Rev B and C Macbook Air have the line issue, ask Scottsdale. Most people are not noticing or not caring, but the display is inferior to every other Apple product out there minus the plastic Macbook. I live in NY, and have been to many in the area and I have never seen one without the line issue. I remember turning on the Rev B and immediately noticing how washed out and dim it was compared to my Macbook Air Rev A (problem is, the Rev A had so many other issues it wasn't worth keeping).

As for the hinge problem, there are many complaints about it...do a search.

Also note, that I was a huge supporter of the Air (hell I payed about $3000 for the Rev A model) because I loved the idea of it, but Apple needs to fix some of the issues, that is all I am saying.

iDisk · Jan 3, 2010

zedsdead said:
It's not 1%. Almost every, if not every Rev B and C Macbook Air have the line issue, ask Scottsdale. Most people are not noticing or not caring, but the display is inferior to every other Apple product out there minus the plastic Macbook. I live in NY, and have been to many in the area and I have never seen one without the line issue. I remember turning on the Rev B and immediately noticing how washed out and dim it was compared to my Macbook Air Rev A (problem is, the Rev A had so many other issues it wasn't worth keeping).

As for the hinge problem, there are many complaints about it...do a search.

Also note, that I was a huge supporter of the Air (hell I payed about $3000 for the Rev A model) because I loved the idea of it, but Apple needs to fix some of the issues, that is all I am saying.

Okay well noted

. Peace and Love zed. I can agree with the hinge problem. A female friend of mine has a MacBook Air and when I went to use it the screen fell back like a tablet.

We both stared at each other and said "This isn't normal" lol, but I later explained to her that this was 1 issue on the Apple forums people have discussed. Her screen looked fine BTW. She had the 80GB Rev A version.

zedsdead · Jan 3, 2010

iDisk said:
Okay well noted . Peace and Love zed. I can agree with the hinge problem. A female friend of mine has a MacBook Air and when I went to use it the screen fell back like a tablet.

We both stared at each other and said "This isn't normal" lol, but I later explained to her that this was 1 issue on the Apple forums people have discussed. Her screen looked fine BTW. She had the 80GB Rev A version.

The Rev A screens were amazing. Rev B and C have the line issue.

I can't wait for the next revision, because I think this time there is going to be a case redesign in favor of a 16x9 screen. Hopefully other goodies come with it, like 4 gigs of RAM, a bigger SSD and the Glass Trackpad.

I also would love more battery life as well, but I do not think Apple can fit a bigger battery in it. I would also rather them stick with Core2Duo and the NVIDIA chipsets instead of the horrid Intel Graphics and a better processor.

iDisk · Jan 3, 2010

zedsdead said:
The Rev A screens were amazing. Rev B and C have the line issue.

I can't wait for the next revision, because I think this time there is going to be a case redesign in favor of a 16x9 screen. Hopefully other goodies come with it, like 4 gigs of RAM, a bigger SSD and the Glass Trackpad.

I also would love more battery life as well, but I do not think Apple can fit a bigger battery in it. I would also rather them stick with Core2Duo and the NVIDIA chipsets instead of the horrid Intel Graphics and a better processor.

Yes that dispute between Intel and Nvidia was not good for anybody.

ATI can be a viable solution and Apple could have a special request with the Arrandale chipsets by requesting the Intel Graphics be disabled.

I'm sold on the 32nm processor. That's the only way for Apple to redesign the Air and to also fit 4gb ram and a slightly higher capacity SSD.

Also with the introduction of the Micron SSD's. Air owners can modify their Airs with a SCREAMING fast 256SSD.

As I mentioned in my new thread "Air Owners rejoice" their new SSD DWARFS, the Runcore SSD's (In ALL categories) not to mention they're the 1st to have a 1.8" 256GB version

zedsdead · Jan 3, 2010

iDisk said:
Yes that dispute between Intel and Nvidia was not good for anybody.

ATI can be a viable solution and Apple could have a special request with the Arrandale chipsets by requesting the Intel Graphics be disabled.

I'm sold on the 32nm processor. That's the only way for Apple to redesign the Air and to also fit 4gb ram and a slightly higher capacity SSD.

Also with the introduction of the Micron SSD's. Air owners can modify their Airs with a SCREAMING fast 256SSD.

As I mentioned in my new thread "Air Owners rejoice" their new SSD DWARFS, the Runcore SSD's (In ALL categories) not to mention they're the 1st to have a 1.8" 256GB version

I agree that the new processors will help, great point. Lets just hope Apple told Intel to forget their graphics chipset in favor of ATI then.

As for the SSD, I was just looking at it. That is great.

jimboutilier · Jan 3, 2010

zedsdead said:
It's not 1%. Almost every, if not every Rev B and C Macbook Air have the line issue, ask Scottsdale.

And just like you, Scottsdale has absolutely no meaningful statistics to back up such a claim. All such claims I've seen to date are based on anecdotal experience and hearsay. The few things I have seen real statistics for (MBA sales figures, and satisfaction surveys) would tend to dispute such claims of serious widespread issues.

Thats not to say these problems don't exist (I have no doubt they do) and that they are serious to those experiencing them, but don't you think we'd see reports from major tech news sources quoting any widespread systemic problems outside the industry norm? Even anecdotally, I've seen many "do you have this problem" threads where there are many NO responses that should cast doubt on any conclusions other than some have issues and some don't. Sorry you've had so many problems, but realize you are outside the norm.

So from someone thats never had any of these issues on a couple MBA's and someone who knows another handful of people that have never had any of these issues, I can unequivocally and scientifically say that the ridiculous claim of "if not every RevB and C" is busted.

And while the MBA sales figures and satisfaction surveys would imply that claims of widespread serious defects are just as ridiculous, it could be a case of people being happy in spite of the flaws so we'll just have to say the jury is still out on that until we see some meaningful statistics.

If you can point me to a reliable source with meaningful statistics that does show an unusually high defect rate I'll be happy to revise my opinion. But until then, I'll just keep in mind that these defects are out there and likely impact a small percentage of machines as is the industry norm.

Theclamshell · Jan 3, 2010

if they put 4 gigs of ram in and dont put a peice of glass over the screen. The air will be my next mac. Do you guys think they will put that awful multi touch trackpad with no button in it?

iDisk · Jan 3, 2010

jimboutilier said:
And just like you, Scottsdale has absolutely no meaningful statistics to back up such a claim.

Hey Jim do people look to this user "Scottsdale" as the dali lama of information for the macbook air?

Not trying to make waves, but people who post should have facts/statistics about what there claiming it informs the lesser informed and contributes well to the forum/thread as a index to reference back to.

darkus · Jan 3, 2010

Your specs sound very spot on...

iDisk · Jan 3, 2010

fun173 said:
if they put 4 gigs of ram in and dont put a peice of glass over the screen. The air will be my next mac. Do you guys think they will put that awful multi touch trackpad with no button in it?

If they're able to keep the weight either the same or even shave a few grams, they may be able to fit the Multi-Touch trackpad for the next air refresh.

* The trackpad is a personal liking or disliking (Apple sales proves the users like it)

jimboutilier · Jan 3, 2010

iDisk said:
Hey Jim do people look to this user "Scottsdale" as the dali lama of information for the macbook air?

Not trying to make waves, but people who post should have facts/statistics about what there claiming it informs the lesser informed and contributes well to the forum/thread as a index to reference back to.

Scottsdale has been an extremely enthusiastic and active participant in the MBA forums here. On the plus side, he's intelligent, knowledgeable, and has helped a lot of folks with his fact based posting here. On the minus side, he holds a lot of strong opinions that he tends to put forth as fact (and they are not) so you have to take care in reading his posts to see if they are fact or opinion based. Thats not even to say I disagree with his opinions all the time, I just have trouble with folks posting opinions as fact - because its leads to the misinformed as we see here.

iDisk · Jan 3, 2010

jimboutilier said:
Scottsdale has been an extremely enthusiastic and active participant in the MBA forums here. On the plus side, he's intelligent, knowledgeable, and has helped a lot of folks with his fact based posting here. On the minus side, he holds a lot of strong opinions that he tends to put forth as fact (and they are not) so you have to take care in reading his posts to see if they are fact or opinion based. Thats not even to say I disagree with his opinions all the time, I just have trouble with folks posting opinions as fact - because its leads to the misinformed as we see here.

Yeah posting opinions you claim are facts isn't good forum etiquette. Though maybe if people provide links and stats to their information the Air forums can slowly change for the good.

At least he's an intelligent person and helps other forum members.

Jobsian · Jan 3, 2010

MacModMachine said:
i dont think you will have to worry much about heat, the heatsink and fan cooling system in the air now was fairly rushed and impossible to change afterwards with its current design.

designing a new cooling system for it would not be difficult and would provide it with a much better thermal handling.

for instance, a smaller plate heatsink like the one in the air now could be moved by a tiny heatpipe into a copper rod/heatsink that could move along the back of the laptop to significantly drop the temperatures of it. this would not effect the battery , ssd/hdd or any other device because of its location.

i think the cooling system can be revamped and it will be.

Thanks MMM, I wasn't aware of that heatsink/fan info, I hope Apple make the next Air really cool, even bedworthy.

zedsdead · Jan 3, 2010

iDisk said:
If they're able to keep the weight either the same or even shave a few grams, they may be able to fit the Multi-Touch trackpad for the next air refresh.

* The trackpad is a personal liking or disliking (Apple sales proves the users like it)

It's not about the weight, but the depth of the Trackpad. Hopefully Apple figures something out because the Glass Trackpad is amazing.

As for the black bezel, that would add a significant amount of weight because of the extra glass panel in front of it so don't expect it to come.

jimboutilier said:
Scottsdale has been an extremely enthusiastic and active participant in the MBA forums here. On the plus side, he's intelligent, knowledgeable, and has helped a lot of folks with his fact based posting here. On the minus side, he holds a lot of strong opinions that he tends to put forth as fact (and they are not) so you have to take care in reading his posts to see if they are fact or opinion based. Thats not even to say I disagree with his opinions all the time, I just have trouble with folks posting opinions as fact - because its leads to the misinformed as we see here.

As for statistics, I've seen well over 30 Rev B and C Macbook Air's in the NYC area between Apple Stores and Best Buy's + the ones I owned, and not one has ever not had the line issue, not one. Most people simply don't notice it, which is the only reason Apple has gotten away with it. I can't have such bad luck that since the Rev B came out, I have never seen a good Macbook Air. The issue is widespread. Once you see the lines, it becomes very annoying. There is no reason for Apple not to fix this problem with the next revision (it should have been fixed with the Rev C).

racer1441 · Jan 3, 2010

Would love to see a low end MBA at the $999.99 price point.

Realistic Next MacBook Air

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