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The new 24" iMac has an H-IPS panel

T

ToastyX

macrumors regular
Original poster
Oct 4, 2005
118
0
There has been so much speculation as to which panel is being used in the new 24" iMac. Some say it's S-PVA, while others say it could be S-IPS, although the 24" IPS panel made by LG is actually H-IPS. I decided to see for myself.

I went to the local Apple store the other day to look at the new iMacs. There's no way it's S-PVA. I tested images that I knew should have color shifting at slight angles on S-PVA panels, but there was absolutely no color shifting at all. In fact, it acts like H-IPS. What gave it away was the slight hue shifting at extreme angles. H-IPS get cooler (bluer) when looking from the left or right and warmer (yellower) when looking from above or below. This effect is very subtle and hard to spot unless you know what to look for, but it's most noticeable with brushed metal windows.

After seeing it in person, I'm quite sure it's H-IPS.
 
L

l33r0y

macrumors 6502
Aug 7, 2007
288
0
ToastyX said:
There has been so much speculation as to which panel is being used in the new 24" iMac. Some say it's S-PVA, while others say it could be S-IPS, although the 24" IPS panel made by LG is actually H-IPS. I decided to see for myself.

I went to the local Apple store the other day to look at the new iMacs. There's no way it's S-PVA. I tested images that I knew should have color shifting at slight angles on S-PVA panels, but there was absolutely no color shifting at all. In fact, it acts like H-IPS. What gave it away was the slight hue shifting at extreme angles. H-IPS get cooler (bluer) when looking from the left or right and warmer (yellower) when looking from above or below. This effect is very subtle and hard to spot unless you know what to look for, but it's most noticeable with brushed metal windows.

After seeing it in person, I'm quite sure it's H-IPS.
Click to expand...

Thanks for doing this :)

By the way, can you point us in the direction of the panel details on the LG.Philips website? I couldn't find a 24" H-IPS panel last time I looked.

Cheers.:apple:
 
G

Gosh

macrumors 6502
Aug 14, 2006
349
0
Good post!

How do you think it compared to the 20" at the Apple Store?

Briefly what's the hierarchy of displays with real life pros and cons: view angle true colour and clarity?
 
suneohair

suneohair

macrumors 68020
Aug 27, 2006
2,136
0
I highly doubt this. Until someone cracks one open and tells us, your subjective opinion on the panel is not evidence of H-IPS. You should edit the title since it is very misleading.
 
F

fireworkz

macrumors newbie
Aug 18, 2007
19
0
suneohair said:
I highly doubt this. Until someone cracks one open and tells us, your subjective opinion on the panel is not evidence of H-IPS. You should edit the title since it is very misleading.
Click to expand...


I believe the panel is (LG PHILIPS LM201WE3) as per pics of the new IMAC disassembled here :
Code: 
http://210.157.201.118/~kodawarisan/imac_2007_mid/imac_2007_mid_01.html
 
suneohair

suneohair

macrumors 68020
Aug 27, 2006
2,136
0
fireworkz said:
I believe the panel is (LG PHILIPS LM201WE3) as per pics of the new IMAC disassembled here :
Code: 
http://210.157.201.118/~kodawarisan/imac_2007_mid/imac_2007_mid_01.html
Click to expand...

That is the panel from the 20". At this point the 24" panel hasn't been confirmed.
 
wakerider017

wakerider017

macrumors 68000
Sep 20, 2006
1,790
1
US of A
fireworkz said:
I believe the panel is (LG PHILIPS LM201WE3) as per pics of the new IMAC disassembled here :
Code: 
http://210.157.201.118/~kodawarisan/imac_2007_mid/imac_2007_mid_01.html
Click to expand...

Isn't that a 20" they disassembled?


Also the LM201WE3 is a 20" Panel so what is your point?

Edit: suneohair you beat me! haha!

To the OP, you may very well be correct, Just no hard evidence yet.

Who wants to tear apart their brand new iMac to tell for sure?
 
suneohair

suneohair

macrumors 68020
Aug 27, 2006
2,136
0
H-IPS panels are not cheap. I highly doubt Apple is using them in the iMac. A TN or MVA is much more likely.

MVA also exhibits the properties the OP describes for H-IPS.
 
wakerider017

wakerider017

macrumors 68000
Sep 20, 2006
1,790
1
US of A
Don't these specs offer any clues?

(Taken directly from Apples site)

APPLE said:
Display

* Built-in 20-inch (viewable) or 24-inch (viewable) glossy widescreen TFT active-matrix liquid crystal display
* Resolution
o 20-inch: 1680 by 1050 pixels
o 24-inch: 1920 by 1200 pixels
* Millions of colors at all resolutions
* Typical viewing angle
o 20-inch models
+ 160° horizontal
+ 160° vertical
o 24-inch model
+ 178° horizontal
+ 178° vertical
* Typical brightness: 290 cd/m2 (20-inch models); 385 cd/m2 (24-inch model)
* Typical contrast ratio: 800:1 (20-inch models); 750:1 (24-inch model)
Click to expand...


Note the higher viewing angle.. (same as the DELL 2407WFP-HC)
 
suneohair

suneohair

macrumors 68020
Aug 27, 2006
2,136
0
Those angles are typical of PVA, MVA, and IPS panels.

The Dell 2407HC, is a PVA panel.
 
suneohair

suneohair

macrumors 68020
Aug 27, 2006
2,136
0
wakerider017 said:
And all of those panels are good panels.

Am I the only one who find the 750:1 contrast ratio odd...

Is that a mistake?
Click to expand...

No doubt they are good panels. I have two 24" MVA and I love them. However, there is no way the iMac has an H-IPS. The OP should not post threads that are blatantly attempting to spread misinformation based on his subjective view of the iMac screen.

It is odd. But everyone rates their panels differently. Apple is probably trying to be conservative.

EDIT: Here is a display using the LG IPS panel in question: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16824002168

Tell me the iMac is using that... :rolleyes:
 
T

ToastyX

macrumors regular
Original poster
Oct 4, 2005
118
0
suneohair said:
I highly doubt this. Until someone cracks one open and tells us, your subjective opinion on the panel is not evidence of H-IPS. You should edit the title since it is very misleading.
Click to expand...
I didn't post my subjective opinions. I posted my direct observations and my conclusions based on my experience with various types of LCD panels. How is the title misleading when it's correct?

suneohair said:
H-IPS panels are not cheap. I highly doubt Apple is using them in the iMac. A TN or MVA is much more likely.
Click to expand...
That is an example of speculation based on subjective opinions. It's definitely not TN, and the lack of color shifting eliminates all VA panels.

suneohair said:
MVA also exhibits the properties the OP describes for H-IPS.
Click to expand...
No, it doesn't. MVA has color shifting, and it doesn't change hues in exactly the same way that I saw on the 24" iMac.

suneohair said:
No doubt they are good panels. I have two 24" MVA and I love them. However, there is no way the iMac has an H-IPS. The OP should not post threads that are blatantly attempting to spread misinformation based on his subjective view of the iMac screen.
Click to expand...
This is why I don't like posting here. You claim I'm attempting to spread misinformation when you're actually the one spreading misinformation based on speculation. You claim there is no way the iMac has an H-IPS panel, based on what? Price?

I've seen many different LCD monitors with various types of panels. I recognize the differences between them. I recognize the characteristics of H-IPS panels because I've actually used monitors with H-IPS panels. Have you?

suneohair said:
Here is a display using the LG IPS panel in question: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16824002168

Tell me the iMac is using that... :rolleyes:
Click to expand...
The 24" iMac is using the same panel except without the A-TW (Advanced True Wide) polarizer, and it doesn't have the color-critical features that the NEC has. :rollnose:
 
RRK

RRK

macrumors 6502
Mar 14, 2007
456
0
USA/Ohio/Columbus
ToastyX said:
I didn't post my subjective opinions. I posted my direct observations and my conclusions based on my experience with various types of LCD panels.

That is an example of speculation based on subjective opinions. It's definitely not TN, and the lack of color shifting eliminates all VA panels.

This is why I don't like posting here. You claim I'm attempting to spread misinformation when you're actually the one spreading misinformation based on speculation. You claim there is no way the iMac has an H-IPS panel, based on what? Price?

I've seen many different LCD monitors with various types of panels. I recognize the differences between them. I recognize the characteristics of H-IPS panels because I've actually used monitors with H-IPS panels. Have you?
Click to expand...
Totally agree with you on these. However the title could deserve a question mark at the end.
 
L

l33r0y

macrumors 6502
Aug 7, 2007
288
0
ToastyX said:
I didn't post my subjective opinions. I posted my direct observations and my conclusions based on my experience with various types of LCD panels. How is the title misleading when it's correct?


That is an example of speculation based on subjective opinions. It's definitely not TN, and the lack of color shifting eliminates all VA panels.


No, it doesn't. MVA has color shifting, and it doesn't change hues in exactly the same way that I saw on the 24" iMac.


This is why I don't like posting here. You claim I'm attempting to spread misinformation when you're actually the one spreading misinformation based on speculation. You claim there is no way the iMac has an H-IPS panel, based on what? Price?

I've seen many different LCD monitors with various types of panels. I recognize the differences between them. I recognize the characteristics of H-IPS panels because I've actually used monitors with H-IPS panels. Have you?


The 24" iMac is using the same panel except without the A-TW (Advanced True Wide) polarizer, and it doesn't have the color-critical features that the NEC has. :rollnose:
Click to expand...

Whatever it turns out to be, at the very least its good that the panel *seems* to approach H-IPS quality - however I doubt an Apple store is the best environment to determin the difference between higher end panel types (with the extreme bright lights they seem to use in stores).

It is quite possible that Apple have a good deal from LG.Philips to get H-IPS panels, especially when they must have a mother of all orders for the 20" TN from the same manufacturer.

Here's hopin' :)
 
atari1356

atari1356

macrumors 68000
Feb 27, 2004
1,582
32
I'll believe it when someone takes one apart and gets the part number...

If it is in fact an IPS panel, it's a shame they ruined it (for photographers or anybody else concerned with color/contrast) by covering it up with that coated glass.
 
suneohair

suneohair

macrumors 68020
Aug 27, 2006
2,136
0
ToastyX said:
I didn't post my subjective opinions. I posted my direct observations and my conclusions based on my experience with various types of LCD panels. How is the title misleading when it's correct?
Click to expand...

Your title is hardly correct. There is zero evidence aside from you looking at the panel and giving you subjective review of it. You title is a statement of fact, a fact that has not been verified by anyone other than you. Even so, the best way to determine this is to take the 24" apart.


ToastyX said:
That is an example of speculation based on subjective opinions. It's definitely not TN, and the lack of color shifting eliminates all VA panels. No, it doesn't. MVA has color shifting, and it doesn't change hues in exactly the same way that I saw on the 24" iMac.
Click to expand...

Funny, my MVA does not exhibit color shift. Not to mention. The glass could also be affecting the way the panel acts. Which should be taken into consideration.



ToastyX said:
This is why I don't like posting here. You claim I'm attempting to spread misinformation when you're actually the one spreading misinformation based on speculation. You claim there is no way the iMac has an H-IPS panel, based on what? Price?
Click to expand...

Where did I spread misinformation? It is highly unlikey that the 24" iMac contain an H-IPS panel. Also, wouldn't you find it odd that tyhe 20" uses a TN while they stick a H-IPS in the 24"? We all know there are 20" IPS panels.

Price is surely a factor. That is not a cheap panel by any means. It doesn't even make sense for them to use it.

ToastyX said:
I've seen many different LCD monitors with various types of panels. I recognize the differences between them. I recognize the characteristics of H-IPS panels because I've actually used monitors with H-IPS panels. Have you?
Click to expand...

Yes in fact I have. I have posted many times around these forums giving panel advice. I have done extensive research and have tested a multitude of monitors. Including the NEC I linked. Not to mention, if this panel is a new panel it could exhibit new characteristics, no? Ones that were apparent in other panels before. Remember technology moves forward. It is possible it could be a new TN for all we know.

The 24" iMac is using the same panel except without the A-TW (Advanced True Wide) polarizer, and it doesn't have the color-critical features that the NEC has. :rollnose:[/QUOTE]

True. But you can't deny the cost of the panel.

Anyhow. My point is simply this: Until you or someone else cracks it open you cannot make a statement of fact about the panel being used in the 24" iMac.

It is equivalent to me saying you have an internal tumor without doing any tests or actually looking. Would you believe that?
 
L

l33r0y

macrumors 6502
Aug 7, 2007
288
0
suneohair said:
True. But you can't deny the cost of the panel.
Click to expand...

If anyone, Apple is surely going to get a discount if getting most (if not all) panels they use in their range are from the same manufacturer - more than NEC would do with a low volume of what is essentially a niche product.

And there is no way the new 24" iMac is using a panel based on TN technology - that much is certain.
 
suneohair

suneohair

macrumors 68020
Aug 27, 2006
2,136
0
l33r0y said:
If anyone, Apple is surely going to get a discount if getting most (if not all) panels they use in their range are from the same manufacturer - more than NEC would do with a low volume of what is essentially a niche product.

And there is no way the new 24" iMac is using a panel based on TN technology - that much is certain.
Click to expand...

Of course they get a discount. However, Have you looked at how much the cinema displays are? Naturally they have a premium, but they are also using an IPS panel (S varient as far as I know). Letstake the 23" ACD for example. Which is exactly half the price of the iMac. Even factoring out the ACD premium and the fact that the iMac gains profit in other areas since it is an all in one, that 23" ACD would still be a big chunk of the 24" iMacs cost.

And I would hardly call the NEC a niche product.

Are you certain the 24" iMac is not using a TN? Why do you think that? Do you know for sure? It is very possible that it may be using one. Maybe a new one that is better than the others. TN won't be the red headed stepchild for long. It has already come a long way.

Is it using a TN? I don't know. Is it using a VA variant? Who knows. IPS? Don't know. Nobody knows. Crack one open. That is how we know for sure.

All panels are a possibility until we have hard evidence. However, TN and IPS are of course highly unlikely.
 
L

l33r0y

macrumors 6502
Aug 7, 2007
288
0
suneohair said:
Of course they get a discount. However, Have you looked at how much the cinema displays are? Naturally they have a premium, but they are also using an IPS panel (S varient as far as I know). Letstake the 23" ACD for example. Which is exactly half the price of the iMac. Even factoring out the ACD premium and the fact that the iMac gains profit in other areas since it is an all in one, that 23" ACD would still be a big chunk of the 24" iMacs cost.

And I would hardly call the NEC a niche product.
Click to expand...

Perhaps niche was the wrong word to use. I wouldn't call it mainstream, put it that way.

suneohair said:
Are you certain the 24" iMac is not using a TN? Why do you think that? Do you know for sure? It is very possible that it may be using one. Maybe a new one that is better than the others. TN won't be the red headed stepchild for long. It has already come a long way.
Click to expand...

I'm certain because TN panels smell of wee and the 24" iMac smells nice ;)

Seriously though, although I cannot be 'I'll bet my house on it' certain, I'm extremly confident that the 24" uses a technology OTHER than TN - based on the back to back tests of both panels in an Apple store.

As for the price of the current price of cinema displays, I don't think it's fair to base the basic price of the panel based on what Apple charges for a cinema display. Apple charge a premium for these displays, more likely because they are aimed at the professional market. You are more likely to get a realistic cost by comparing what another manufacturer charges for their displays at todays prices. This will also take into consideration the drop in price that would have occured between now and when the current range of cinema displays were first released (admittedly Apple had recently dropped the price of the ACD's, probably because LG.Philips had reduced the price significantly) but again, comparing a like for like display using the same panel, Apple charges significantly more.


Based on price and relative performance between the 20" and 24", my gut feeling is they are using a Samsung S-PVA (ala Dell 2407FPW) as this is cheaper than a LG.Philips S-IPS, has the characteristics of a NON TN panel and matches the specifications that Apple have provided for the 24"

Is it using a TN? I don't know. Is it using a VA variant? Who knows. IPS? Don't know. Nobody knows. Crack one open. That is how we know for sure.

All panels are a possibility until we have hard evidence. However, TN and IPS are of course highly unlikely.
Click to expand...

Agreed. I hope someone will do just that so we can put an end to this thread ;)
 
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