Mac Pro Pricing? Are we paying a stupidity tax?

[george.dye]

All instances of Mac Pros seem grossly overpriced at the moment. A PC/linux server at 2500 or 3300 or anything in between/higher is nearly always $1000 (Or more) cheaper. Why is this?

Why is a 1TB HDD 300 on Apples site? Why god why?

At the moment I would condemn any who buy a MP due to the current pricing. For less money you could get a much faster computer!

On a side note the video cards in the MP are the biggest joke I have ever seen. A workstation means WORK STATION! Not ****** graphics for gaming in windows.

Rant off

[The Rominator]

Where is my fire extinguisher?

[Techhie]

iThink the OP should stop complaining and just buy another computer

[Umbongo]

Originally Posted by george.dye

All instances of Mac Pros seem grossly overpriced at the moment. A PC/linux server at 2500 or 3300 or anything in between/higher is nearly always $1000 (Or more) cheaper. Why is this?

Why is a 1TB HDD 300 on Apples site? Why god why?

At the moment I would condemn any who buy a MP due to the current pricing. For less money you could get a much faster computer!

People buy them for OS X. The dual socket systems are on a similar pricing level to Dell, HP, Fujitsu, Lenovo etc. The single socket systems are not because other companies price their single socket workstations against the Core i7 desktops they also sell where Apple are pricing it against the iMac and dual socket Mac Pro. Apple appear happy to cater to those who will pay rather than trying to expand market share in some areas, very evident in the pro segement.

On a side note the video cards in the MP are the biggest joke I have ever seen. A workstation means WORK STATION! Not ****** graphics for gaming in windows.

Workstation cards and consumer cards use the same hardwarem but with a pro card you get better drivers, support and hardware certification. You get the best drivers Apple provide, support and certification with consumer cards under OS X already. Unless you are saying why don't Apple provide the same performance on a workstation card that you can get in Windows, in which case it is because the market for pro cards is tiny and evidently not worth pursuing compared to windows.

[Techhie]

Originally Posted by Umbongo

Workstation cards and consumer cards use the same hardware and are different under Windows due to software drivers, support and hardware certification. There is no difference on OS X, unless you are saying why don't Apple provide the same performance on a workstation card that you can get in Windows, in which case it is because the market for pro cards is tiny and evidently not worth pursuing compared to windows.

This is not always true, many times the chips themselves are very different in workstation cards to allow for advanced professional use

[Umbongo]

Originally Posted by Techhie

This is not always true, many times the chips themselves are very different in workstation cards to allow for advanced professional use

The Quadro/GeForce lines and FireGL/Radeon lines use the same technology and are the cards offered by the main computer sellers. The performance is in the application specific, optimized drivers.

[alphaod]

Originally Posted by george.dye

All instances of Mac Pros seem grossly overpriced at the moment. A PC/linux server at 2500 or 3300 or anything in between/higher is nearly always $1000 (Or more) cheaper. Why is this?

Why is a 1TB HDD 300 on Apples site? Why god why?

At the moment I would condemn any who buy a MP due to the current pricing. For less money you could get a much faster computer!

On a side note the video cards in the MP are the biggest joke I have ever seen. A workstation means WORK STATION! Not ****** graphics for gaming in windows.

Rant off

If you don't want to pay for it, don't buy it! It doesn't give you the right to chastise other people for making the purchases they want and are willing to pay for.

[valiar]

Originally Posted by george.dye

All instances of Mac Pros seem grossly overpriced at the moment. A PC/linux server at 2500 or 3300 or anything in between/higher is nearly always $1000 (Or more) cheaper. Why is this?

The dual CPU Mac Pros are not overpriced for what they are.
Dual-socket Nehalem workstations from Dell, HP, and Lenovo are priced exactly the same as the Mac Pro.
And these machines are not designed as well as the MP (I am talking about cooling, ease of upgrade, etc). MP also comes with OS X.

The single-CPU Mac Pro is a bad value compared to what everyone else is selling, but it still might make sense under certain circumstances.

Originally Posted by george.dye

Why is a 1TB HDD 300 on Apples site? Why god why?

All manufacturers overprice factory-installed generic parts. Not only Apple is guilty of that. Just try to upgrade one of the Dell Precisions.
However, installing an extra drive into a Mac Pro is trivial, and arguably simpler than in any of the competing machines. So this point is rather moot.

Originally Posted by george.dye

At the moment I would condemn any who buy a MP due to the current pricing. For less money you could get a much faster computer!

You cannot get a faster and cheaper dual Nehalem machine from any major manufacturer. You could conceivably build your own and save a few bucks, but most, if not all DIY computer cases suck, and accumulate dust over time. Also, if you want to run OS X, you will have to go the Hackintosh route. Whether all of this aggravation is worth $300-$500 you will save this way is debatable. Definitely not worth it for me.

Originally Posted by george.dye

On a side note the video cards in the MP are the biggest joke I have ever seen. A workstation means WORK STATION! Not ****** graphics for gaming in windows.

As has been noted above, workstation cards use mostly or completely the same chips as the mainstream cards. The difference comes with drivers. The "workstation" drivers usually unlock a few rarely used features, and they are certified for major 3D and CAD software, such as Maya and AutoCAD.
FYI, most, if not all Mac Pros are certified for Maya under OS X. That's all that matters to people who actually use these machines in a production environment.

[lemonade-maker]

These threads go nowhere and are worthless. Ever search? There are dozens of these threads. Why not post in one of those?

Buy something else and post a happy thread elsewhere.

[nick9191]

Originally Posted by george.dye

All instances of Mac Pros seem grossly overpriced at the moment. A PC/linux server at 2500 or 3300 or anything in between/higher is nearly always $1000 (Or more) cheaper. Why is this?

Why is a 1TB HDD 300 on Apples site? Why god why?

At the moment I would condemn any who buy a MP due to the current pricing. For less money you could get a much faster computer!

On a side note the video cards in the MP are the biggest joke I have ever seen. A workstation means WORK STATION! Not ****** graphics for gaming in windows.

Rant off

Mac Pro prices compare pretty well against Dell. They used to be far cheaper (like literally, could not be built cheaper). Then the recession hit, Apple realised that they could lower the margins on their laptops and consumer desktops, and regain some of the money by higher margins on their pro workstation, as professionals have no choice but to buy it.

As for the pro GPU, http://store.apple.com/us/product/TW386LL/A

[21ce]

Originally Posted by Umbongo

The Quadro/GeForce lines and FireGL/Radeon lines use the same technology and are the cards offered by the main computer sellers. The performance is in the application specific, optimized drivers.

Very true, one of the main reasons the PRO cards are so expensive is because of their drivers and support. Since it isn't a large market they are able to charge premium prices, because it does take very specific drivers to optimize certain application use.

:::sorry for repeating what everyone else has stated::

[kellen]

Kind of a short sighted view if you ask me, with others pointing out the ways around most of your argument.

The quad mac pro I agree with in pricing, but you are getting OS X.

Another point, why buy new? Refurbished items are available, as are used. There have been some great deals online from people selling their Mac Pros. 2008 Mac Pro isn't that much of a step down and some may even say it would be a step up depending on how you are using it and which model you get.

[nanofrog]

Originally Posted by Umbongo

The dual socket systems are on a similar pricing level to Dell, HP, Fujitsu, Lenovo etc.

I can't say for the UK, but the PC versions of DP systems are slightly less expensive than their Mac counterparts, have more options (additional processors and true professional graphics cards for example), and have better warranties included in the base price. A few hundred USD before attempting to compensate for the warranty by adding the extended Apple Care.

Originally Posted by Umbongo

The single socket systems are not because other companies price their single socket workstations against the Core i7 desktops they also sell where Apple are pricing it against the iMac and dual socket Mac Pro. Apple appear happy to cater to those who will pay rather than trying to expand market share in some areas, very evident in the pro segement.

Apple is interested in higher margins than their PC competitors, especially on the SP systems. So the end price is higher than their PC versions.

The difference is, it can't run OS X out of the box, without a hack. Not everyone is interested in doing this, especially corporations (i.e. video/graphics houses). They want to buy a "ready-to-go" system in terms of OS X, and warranty.

OS X seems to be the real differentiating factor here, as the PC versions are less expensive with Windows loaded despite it's a more expensive OS (even more so, if Linux is used).

Originally Posted by Umbongo

Workstation cards and consumer cards use the same hardwarem but with a pro card you get better drivers, support and hardware certification. You get the best drivers Apple provide, support and certification with consumer cards under OS X already. Unless you are saying why don't Apple provide the same performance on a workstation card that you can get in Windows, in which case it is because the market for pro cards is tiny and evidently not worth pursuing compared to windows.

There's sort of a Catch-22 though with pro graphics cards under Mac. Not much, if any OS X software supports it, and card makers aren't willing to try for the most part.

As it stands, the Quadro FX4800 does have a Mac edition, and IMO, is an experiement to determine if there is a market for such cards under OS X. If it proves viable, others will follow, otherwise, it will die out, and the only options will be consumer cards.