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Old Jun 17, 2013, 12:10 PM   #351
hotcrab
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i'm confused

if the icon for safari is a compass, what is the icon for the compass?
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Old Jun 17, 2013, 12:28 PM   #352
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Originally Posted by hotcrab View Post
if the icon for safari is a compass, what is the icon for the compass?
I do not understand that either. Seems so unprofessional and messy! Two compass icons, really? But this is not something new - the old icons also show two compasses. Really wish Apple could design beautiful and consistent icons.
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Old Jun 17, 2013, 12:28 PM   #353
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Originally Posted by haydn! View Post
All I can say is, WTF. If you choose to be ignorant of wider public opinion because it doesn't support your view then it is you who is twisting facts, not me twisting words.
That's fine, I'll talk about how oranges are orange in color and you can jump in with apples can be red or green. Again I'm not talking about the wider public opinion, I'm talking about the people who don't like it and why. The fact that others like it is irrelevant to that conversation, that's what YOU don't get.

To ignore any debate in favor of following "wider public opinion" makes you a sheep. If you choose to be ignorant to anything other than wider public opinion, then that's sad.
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Old Jun 17, 2013, 12:30 PM   #354
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Originally Posted by WilliamLondon View Post
blabla ...

It's applied to anyone who might agree with Apple and not with that person, like gawd forbid a person might actually have cogent reasons for agreeing with something Apple releases, but no according to your logic the logic of everyone else who is so superior as to disagree with Apple, blablabla
What a hysterical reaction. First of all, I never state I'm superior, I never have any problems, as stated 237892979 times, that people like the new design. But you simply can't read and put everything out of context. I'm going to repeat it for the last time, for me it's more about the interaction design + design as a whole. Nothing more, nothing less.. You have your opinion, I got mine.

You might praise the designs and might shout hallelujah, fine! I'm ok with that, really, trust me! In other words William, it's OK deal with it. And IF you really don't like to be called an Apple fanboy then please stop wining about people who don't like the designs. It's not that big of a deal, the world will turn on, even if iOS7 will be left intact. And we have one thing in common, we both like Apple products

So keep breathing kid, and above all, relax
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Old Jun 17, 2013, 01:03 PM   #355
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Originally Posted by jncoanalog View Post

I would also give iOS 7 a 5 minus at the scale of 1 to 10.
Same here. So it might go better when Apple would make some changes.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jncoanalog View Post
Not only because of what I said but even more importantly because I think the 'buttons-problem' is part of a much broader problem: the lack of visual hierarchy between menu bars, menu items, static information, dynamic information, pressable buttons, content, etc... And that's something that will affect not only younger and older people but every single user of iOS7, because while I am prolific using it, I felt much more confortable using every other iOS iteration.
Couldn't agree more.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jncoanalog View Post
I don't particularly love the 'skeumorphic' approach of Forstall era, but I trully believe that having some kind of relation between the digital and the analog 'worlds' is very important,
I agree. But that's a matter of taste of course. Ive and his team think otherwise.... And since Ive is "holy" the rest will follow

Quote:
Originally Posted by jncoanalog View Post
and actually I think it's one of the main advantages of touch screens, the fact that you are touching the interface has the power of 'transforming' the digital experience in a more analog one.
Agree, but it also has disadvantages. Some people say that you can work on documents using touchscreen, actually I've tried that once and I wasn't convinced. But the good news is that Microsoft and also other parties are working on new technology that makes you "feel" an surface other then just plain glass. I think "touch" and "feeling a difference" is very important when looking to touch devises.

But that's an other subject

Quote:
Originally Posted by jncoanalog View Post
However I strongly disagree with you regarding the "Ive being an industrial designer" comment you made. Being a product/interior/urban space designer by academic formation and now working in the user interface design 'area' I might be suspect, but I strongly believe that design is design, because it's always (or it should be) about the interaction of the user with what's being designed.
Yes and no. The 'way' you interact with devices using graphical elements is something else then the 'way' you interact with devices using it as a hardware element. For instance, a keyboard design works quite different then using icons with a mouse to activate those. And then you also have a somewhat more "grey-ish" area where interacting with both a design element or a device creates some kind of "experience", 'how' people experience an interaction is a case study on it's own really and a world yet to be explored in many aspects.
But's that's just my opinion.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jncoanalog View Post
Of course you can specialize yourself in a certain 'area' of design, or in a certain technicality, so to speak, and I'm not saying such individus are not needed, but I don't really believe in (over)specialization, so I 'designed' my academic path to be more like a generalisation in design than a specialization in one of its specific 'areas' or 'fields', or 'sub-fields', or whatever you wanna call them... and I never met Jonny Ive but I suspect he might have a similar point of view regarding design, that's why I was so 'shocked' that iOS7 failed in the aforementioned aspects (and probably in even more).
True. Also a grey-ish field so to speak, meaning, what's good looking is always in the eye of the beholder. True, but iOS7 fails on many levels, not only on the personal level (design) which is a matter of taste but i.m.h.o. also in the area of interaction. Where most icons where pretty clear on 'what' they would do when being pressed many of the new icons are simply confusing to put it mildly. My "shock" was for sure that Apple always is about making things more easy and more understandable, with iOS7 they did the opposite. That doesn't mean that the new functionality is all that bad, but it needs a make-over, especially on the field of "understanding" the icons and in some parts also in the interaction.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jncoanalog View Post
But this could grow into an entirely different discussion and I think I already elongated more than I should so I'll leave it here.
Sure, I'm going to follow you in this. My point has been made pretty clear, all tough some people seems to have problems understanding that my criticism is about more then just the designs in general. But I leave that aside.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jncoanalog View Post
I'll just leave a link to a small article I recently found that might be a good (quick) read... at least I hope so.
Thanks for you reply mate and the link as well. Will have a look at it!

----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by ppdix View Post
I'm an Apple fanboy and I really want to like this new look but I hate it...
They have taken away the simplicity by making it too simple.
My 70 year old mom loves her iPhone and iPad mini and she is proud that she can use them easily.
I think this new super bright interface is going to suck for her and new users.
We will adapt but because we will have no choice.
That's what apple is doing lately. No choices.
It's their way or no way.
The same goes for the Mac OS X. Same colors and icons from 10 years ago.
I remember the many ways to customize System 7 and 8 and 9.
Now u are stuck with blue or graphite??? They havent had a graphics color Mac in a decade...
That's why i jailbreak. To have the freedom to have anything I want.
The funny thing is that if u look at Cydia now, there are lots of iOS 7 tweaks out there but as soon as it comes out, there will be iOS 6 themes to go back to normal...

You make good points here mate. And let's be honest here, how "hard" is it for Apple to come along with different theme settings? It's not like that big of a deal right? Like program's give you the choice of choosing a language and with the adobe products a choice between a light look and feel or a dark one. If Adobe can do it Apple sure can as well...

Time will tell ^^ Fingers crossed, and I sure hope your 70 old mother is able to deal with the new icons that doesn't make sense.... I've showed my mother (75 years old) the new iOS7 designs and she didn't understand it at all.....

So much for the 'Apple making life easy for folks....' ideology....

----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by jonnysods View Post
I'm drooling to get a copy of Mavericks. It looks amazing and has so many great features I want, and we haven't even heard about them yet.

I'm sure by the GM of iOS7 we will be looking at a much better product.


Sure, I'm waiting for a copy myself as well. Would be nice since I use multiple monitors in my studio to actually use everything full screen without being confronted with a grey looking monitors where just one is active...

I've seen a post here on Macrumors where Maverick can use 8 monitors..... well that's what I call a decent beginning
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Old Jun 17, 2013, 01:21 PM   #356
WilliamLondon
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Originally Posted by dragje View Post
What a hysterical reaction. First of all, I never state I'm superior, I never have any problems, as stated 237892979 times, that people like the new design. But you simply can't read and put everything out of context. I'm going to repeat it for the last time, for me it's more about the interaction design + design as a whole. Nothing more, nothing less.. You have your opinion, I got mine.

You might praise the designs and might shout hallelujah, fine! I'm ok with that, really, trust me! In other words William, it's OK deal with it. And IF you really don't like to be called an Apple fanboy then please stop wining about people who don't like the designs. It's not that big of a deal, the world will turn on, even if iOS7 will be left intact. And we have one thing in common, we both like Apple products

So keep breathing kid, and above all, relax
You make me laugh - call me a kid, that's a riot, a kid at my age. You say you don't state that you are superior, but you condescend and offend all the time - one doesn't have to state it directly, it's implied in how you speak to me and others on this forum - it's why you call others fanboys, how now you're telling me what to do ("stop whining"), and then it's "kid keep breathing" - that's condescending. I'm not the only one that's commented on this, it can't be news to you.

You have your opinions, great. I have mine, which I don't think you even know because I haven't said one word to you what I think of these icons and this whole issue, but you have let everyone else know that because you disagree with them they are fanboys.

What I think of the icons: I think opinions are not facts, first and foremost (mine especially). At first I didn't think too strongly one way or the other (though, I'm not sure about why bubbles implies games or the photos icon looks like the NBC logo mirrored horizontally<grin>) because: 1) I've not yet played with the OS, and 2) icons are one very small element of a UI.

Since watching the WWDC session I at least now realise why they are flat and how the colours of the icons carry through into the apps to indicate to users items which can be selected (because borders no longer delineate and indicate a button), also I realise how with the layering effect the icons need to be flat, and how Apple is treating us as more mature users of touch interfaces in how much prior touch knowledge they expect us to have when we pick up an iOS device, and this new version takes advantage of our having prior knowledge (when previously they didn't assume prior touch knowledge) - that's a step change in how the UI is expecting us to interact with it, and I personally think that's very cool.

Not that it's any business of yours, but I'm a veteran IT professional with 20 years experience in small and very large multinational companies (in multiple countries) including software, hardware and services - I started my career as a UI software engineer and UI designer (working on DOS, Mac and Windows graphics applications), add to that years working in product management and marketing (yes, I transferred over to the dark side mid-career) and being involved in numerous design projects including product, divisional and corporate-wide rebranding, so this stuff is really fascinating to me.

You knew none of this and still you jumped into labelling me a fanboy with our first exchange.

(apologies for the long post)
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Old Jun 17, 2013, 05:12 PM   #357
dragje
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Originally Posted by WilliamLondon View Post
You have your opinions, great. I have mine


And you're not a fanboy, I apologize for labeling you this way.
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Old Jun 18, 2013, 12:58 AM   #358
MIZA
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Originally Posted by Walter White View Post
My personal favourite:

Image

Jonny Ive redesigns 6 brands in 4 minutes.


Bloody hilarious really.
Stay away from designer jobs.
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Old Jun 18, 2013, 03:25 AM   #359
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Originally Posted by MIZA View Post
Stay away from designer jobs.
Seems you've been staying away from irony and sarcasm for quite a while.
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Old Jun 18, 2013, 05:50 AM   #360
WilliamLondon
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Originally Posted by dragje View Post
Image

And you're not a fanboy, I apologize for labeling you this way.
Very cool, thank you!
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Old Jun 18, 2013, 07:08 AM   #361
dragje
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Originally Posted by WilliamLondon View Post
Very cool, thank you!

You're welcome William. I was a bit carried away there. Sorry for that. Point is, or rather the reason why I make a point of the interaction design and design is not because some people like it and others don't but because I'm really surprised that Apple is going this way, a collaboration between several existing interaction methods used by other companies long time ago. There is nothing against re-using old methods if they simply work but since Apple is always about making things "more easy" and less confusing it's odd to see that my mother simply don't understand where some of the new icons stand for.

In my humble opinion design should be understandable by any means, that doesn't mean it should be dark red (my favorite color) or green because I might like those colors but it means that despite your or any taste from someone else icons should be easy to understand.

On top of that we all know that Apple is a very closed system. That approach has some good punts but also disadvantages. I really wished that the consumers where able to "choose" templates of their liking in order to work with a devise that cost them quite a lot of money in a way they like it. That doesn't mean that the iPhone should be open source if Apple doesn't like that but what's wrong with letting people at least choose between several approaches in design while letting the interaction intact if Apple shouts that that's the only right way? Is that to much to ask? I hope Apple will think about those issues a bit more often... that's all
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Old Jun 18, 2013, 08:23 PM   #362
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Originally Posted by beowulf70 View Post
"Playful circles"? ...balloons with highlights, shadows and fake 3D tones...? Hardly following the so-called "flat" aesthetic proposed by Mr Ive.
The so-called 'flat' aesthetic is a misunderstanding or a way to say that it would be the opposite of skeumorphism. If they would've taken that approach, then they would've ended up with something like Win8 or Google Apps.

Instead, Apple took a better, more fundamental approach, by basing it on true minimalism, some sort of modern bauhaus, if you will.

Quote:
Originally Posted by beowulf70 View Post
"Abstract sunflower"? Get off the grass! It's clip-art at best and primary school design at worst. I don't know whether to laugh or cry.
As a matter of fact, I think it's genius that they took this approach. As a designer, you should know that it's all about context. The new icons do a better job in regards to context, since when does a chess piece, a baseball bat, a target & dart, and a rocket convey some sort of 'Game Center'. If anything, it reminds me of a bundle of terribly outdated games. As for Photos, since when does a sunflower convey the notion of photos.

With the new icons, the context is quite apparent when actually using the apps (the playful bubble-ish balls and the new filters found in Photos).

Quote:
Originally Posted by beowulf70 View Post
PS. I'm a Graphic Designer with over 23 years international Top 10 agency experience. Not your average moaning armchair critic. Just thought I'd say.
I'm sure Sir Jonny had the final word on these icons. There's a reason why he appointed those that he did to design the icons. As a designer, you should know better to appreciate the thought process that came to create such an incredible experience through design (which comes from clarity), than to expect some sort of trending so-called 'flat' design.

<jan tschichold>
The essence of the New Typography is clarity. This puts it into deliberate opposition to the old typography whose aim was "beauty" and whose clarity did not attain the high level we require today. This utmost clarity is necessary today because of the manifold claims for our attention made by the extraordinary amount of print, which demands the greatest economy of expression.
</jan tschichold>

...Notice any parallels.
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