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Old Apr 10, 2013, 01:48 AM   #51
Woyzeck
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Originally Posted by xkmxkmxlmx View Post
The amount of users who need one are less than the amount of people who don't.
I doubt that. The iMac is a consumer PC and most of them have CDs/DVDs at home that they'd like to use with their computer.

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They drive up the price for users who do not.
The price of an iMac is set by Apple. Hardware cost is only one factor of it and I doubt that the price for the optical drive significantly raises that.

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They are loud.
Granted.

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There are alternatives (USB, Cloud, Externals, etc).
Granted. Still, an AIO should be flexible in its use. Fact is, many many people prefer physical media over this DRM crap.

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They have constantly moving parts that also generate a lot of heat within a small/thin enclosure.
You mean like the outdated disk drives that they build into their current iMacs, except for the ones that contain the way overpriced SSD ?

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More moving parts mean more possibility of something breaking. Which means, to repair my simple and cheap optical disc drive, I would have to lug my ENTIRE computer to Apple to get it fixed. As well as be out of a computer for that amount of time.
That's the consequence of the AOI concept. The same applies to all other parts, especially to the screen, which will outdate at a much slower rate than the other internals. There are still many moving parts inside an iMac that can break.
Even worse, if you're afraid of breaking parts then an iMac which is practically non-repairable by the user should be avoided.

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You can literally get an external for $20.
...but not for a machine at this price.

I don't critizize those who are happy with their iMacs, no way doing that. It's just that I don't like this "Apple does it and so it must be good attitude". The removal of the optical drive was pimarily an advantage for Apple, but not for the customer. The same applies to stupid ideas like non-upgradable RAM, mechanical harddisks (non-upgradable) and other stuff that is sacrificed for pure optical reasons.

I was waiting for the new iMacs for more than 8 months, but the package that they delivered just didn't cut it for me. For an AOI these days I expect...
* a 256GB SSD as the base configuration
* user-upgradable RAM and harddisk
* an optical drive
* all connectivity that I would ever need
* hassle-free target display mode so that I can use the screen with other devices

I don't care about the thinner case and while I see the technical advantages of Thunderbolt one must accept that it's more or less dead technology that's only used by Apple as a unique selling proposition for their overpriced (glossy, wtf) displays.
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Old Apr 10, 2013, 03:16 PM   #52
xkmxkmxlmx
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Woyzeck View Post
I doubt that. The iMac is a consumer PC and most of them have CDs/DVDs at home that they'd like to use with their computer.
And as I have already said, those people are a dying breed. I have not used a CD or DVD in over 5 years.

I do buy blu-rays, but I have a dedicated home theater to watch them.

If you're purchasing blu-rays to watch on your computer, that is absurd. A blu-ray should generally be enjoyed on a much larger screen with a great sound system. Or really, what's the point? I am not trying to tell people how they should watch their stuff. But I am pointing out how minuscule this subset of people are who are clamoring for a blu-ray drive in their iMacs really is.


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Granted. Still, an AIO should be flexible in its use. Fact is, many many people prefer physical media over this DRM crap.
An AIO be definition are NOT flexible. They are more akin to laptop. Cramped and harder to fix/upgrade yourself. Get a tower if you want flexibility.

As for your DRM statement... I really feel as if I should stop debating you at this point. You're not only grasping, you sound ignorant and uninformed. There are MANY outlets to obtain media that isn't DRM'd these days.

Not to mention your whole 'apple is trying to sell you itunes' bs comment before. As if you can't obtain media from any other digital outlet out there (literally HUNDREDS: Amazon, google, netflix, vodoo, hulu, google play, etc, etc, etc). As if they are preventing you from getting an external to play whatever media you choose.

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You mean like the outdated disk drives that they build into their current iMacs, except for the ones that contain the way overpriced SSD ?
I wouldn't say they are outdated as much as an optical drive. And with Apple's own fusion drive and SSD prices dropping, yes, that will be gone soon too. Can't wait.

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That's the consequence of the AOI concept. The same applies to all other parts, especially to the screen, which will outdate at a much slower rate than the other internals. There are still many moving parts inside an iMac that can break.
I understand that. But every little bit counts. They are obviously trying to combat that with every iteration.

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Even worse, if you're afraid of breaking parts then an iMac which is practically non-repairable by the user should be avoided.
99% of the user base could not repair their own 2011 iMacs.


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...but not for a machine at this price.
I still don't understand why you keep saying that. Price out every piece and you will find that this is one of the best priced iMacs ever. You won't do it. You would rather stay ignorant. DRM CONSPIRACY!

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I don't critizize those who are happy with their iMacs, no way doing that. It's just that I don't like this "Apple does it and so it must be good attitude".
That is not my stance in the slightest. I have many issues with some of their items and I will gladly pass on or call them on it when I see fit.

You're the one that is taking it in the opposite extreme. Taking a simple thing like a $20 add-on obsolete drive and saying Apple has AN AGENDA OH NO, and dismissing an entire unbelievably awesome piece of tech over it. You are using outdated terms to back up your claims as well.

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The removal of the optical drive was pimarily an advantage for Apple, but not for the customer. The same applies to stupid ideas like non-upgradable RAM, mechanical harddisks (non-upgradable) and other stuff that is sacrificed for pure optical reasons.
I love how you know exactly why they were omitted. You have no idea why they were. And they can be good for the consumer as well, especially for the MANY consumers that do not need them, as my examples have already pointed out. You're just stuck in your ways and can't see past that.

Removing physical media is the way of the future. It is inevitable. Get with it or remain upset. It isn't going to stop, though. I personally see many advantages of it, I am sorry you do not.

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I was waiting for the new iMacs for more than 8 months, but the package that they delivered just didn't cut it for me. For an AOI these days I expect...
* a 256GB SSD as the base configuration
* user-upgradable RAM and harddisk
* an optical drive
* all connectivity that I would ever need
* hassle-free target display mode so that I can use the screen with other devices
You can get the SSD. I don't understand why it needs to be standard. I can't tell you this enough, but I won't respond to you again if you do not build me a cheaper computer with comprable parts. The iMac is already priced quite fairly. Add an SSD and pay for it if you want.

The ram is user-upgradable still. Why is it so important that the HDD be user upgradable? Like seriously, why?

Optical drive is obsolete. You already know you can add it on as well. Think of it more as an external HDD. Or a printer, even. Why does it HAVE to be built it?

This iMac has all the connectivity I would ever need. I don't know why you think it doesn't.

It has some target display capabilities. But the past ones had the same issues. Did you expect them to change it all of the sudden?

Regardless, you're asking them to build you a crazy desktop. An iMac is NOT WHAT YOU NEED. You want versatility? Get a Mac PRO! Seriously, the iMac concept is a simplified experience.

Actually, a Mac Mini and a cheapy non glossy monitor from Samsung sounds EXACTLY what you need.

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I don't care about the thinner case and while I see the technical advantages of Thunderbolt one must accept that it's more or less dead technology that's only used by Apple as a unique selling proposition for their overpriced (glossy, wtf) displays.
You're so ignorant. Overpriced??? Show me another display that is this powerful for significantly cheaper. The older iMac had glossy displays. The 2012 has moved to solve it. There is tons less glare.

You sound like a disgruntled conspiracy theorist. You are SO UPSET about a computer. Talk about first world problems. Buy a Windows PC and stop whining. I mean, why are you even posting about it still? It is obviously not for you. You're that upset over it? The world MUST know!
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Old Apr 10, 2013, 03:18 PM   #53
fr4c
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Ordered, was waiting for these to show up. Going to replace the 21.5" iMac we had in the living room/kitchen.
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Old Apr 10, 2013, 07:35 PM   #54
iRockSteady
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Optical drives are a dying breed, just as floppy drives were several years ago, and those were phased out. No need to have them when a simple external drive will do what 1/50 users need.
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Old Apr 10, 2013, 10:20 PM   #55
Mr. G4
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That was fast. Ordered mine yesterday and got it today even though I chose the free delivery. Everything working great.
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Old Apr 11, 2013, 03:13 AM   #56
JM-Prod
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Originally Posted by iRockSteady View Post
Optical drives are a dying breed, just as floppy drives were several years ago, and those were phased out. No need to have them when a simple external drive will do what 1/50 users need.
It's more than 1/50 of users. People want to rip their old CD's, sometimes you have software and games on DVD's or CD.

Adding an external drive ruins the concept of an all-in-one computer.
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Old Apr 11, 2013, 01:41 PM   #57
xkmxkmxlmx
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Originally Posted by JM-Prod View Post
It's more than 1/50 of users. People want to rip their old CD's, sometimes you have software and games on DVD's or CD.

Adding an external drive ruins the concept of an all-in-one computer.
Who is STILL buying CDs? And not using Steam? If you have not ripped your old CDs yet, come on.

The two examples you gave are of definitely a 1/50. I could at least get behind it more if you said they needed it for work or something.

So you're basically saying that a $20 add-on external that you will use once in a great while (or are you just endlessly ripping a pile of CDs that lasts forever?) is preventing you from buying a $2000 work horse? Absurd.
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Old Apr 11, 2013, 09:21 PM   #58
CWallace
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xkmxkmxlmx View Post
Who is STILL buying CDs?
I just had to buy Call the Midwife: The Album as a CD from the UK because the BBC has yet to release it on the US iTunes Store.
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Old Apr 11, 2013, 09:51 PM   #59
bawbac
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Making excuses that an optical drive is not needed by the majority is like saying desktop computers are not needed when a laptop or tablet can do the same.

It's awesome that hard drives never fail so who needs a copy of their media.

And please, stop with get an external ...

Apple is trying to force another of its "our way or the highway" and the sales are speaking for themselves.
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Old Apr 11, 2013, 10:15 PM   #60
maxosx
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A friend of mine received his today. Every time I see a refurbished Mac I am simply amazed at the stellar job they do. This computer looks absolutely brand new. For those who cannot afford, or do not want to pay retail, there's a great opportunity to save money and get a very nicely refurbished Mac computer.
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Old May 13, 2013, 07:47 PM   #61
JM-Prod
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xkmxkmxlmx View Post
Who is STILL buying CDs? And not using Steam? If you have not ripped your old CDs yet, come on.
Only sweaty geeks use steam. If you are older than 25 years old, you have a lot of films, games and music on optical discs. No need to spend time on ripping them.

Quote:
Originally Posted by xkmxkmxlmx View Post
So you're basically saying that a $20 add-on external that you will use once in a great while (or are you just endlessly ripping a pile of CDs that lasts forever?) is preventing you from buying a $2000 work horse? Absurd.
No, I'm saying that a furniture such as the iMac should be all-in-one, not cluttered with an external optical drive. And btw. I don't consider it a work horse, it's an all-in-one home computer. MacPro is a work horse.
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Old Aug 11, 2013, 03:19 AM   #62
magilla
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iMac Refurbs

maybe it's me but just WHY is a product that's only been on the market for 4 months already having so many refurbs that they're being turned back out to the resale market?
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Old Aug 11, 2013, 01:23 PM   #63
otismotive77
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time to upgrade, save $300 and still have the latest version of iMac, great.
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Old Aug 11, 2013, 02:41 PM   #64
heutusops
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buying the refurbished product is not a bad thing, you lose nothing, instead you save money, but i wont be buying this, i'm waiting for the next version of the iMac, haswell will make it much better.
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