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Old Jun 17, 2013, 03:47 AM   #1
rdsii64
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Is this Mac Pro worth the price?

I have an opportunity to by a used 3.0 ghtz 8 core mac pro. its an mid 2007 2.1 with 20 gigs of ram with and an outdated 8800 gt that will get replaced if I decide to by it.

I have two questions.

A) Is this computer worth the $800.00 asking price?
B) will it run 10.8 MTN Lion?
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Old Jun 17, 2013, 03:51 AM   #2
Tussen69
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Answer:

A - NO
B- NO

http://support.apple.com/kb/ht5444

Montain Lion Requires Mac Pro 2008 (MacPro 3.1)
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Old Jun 17, 2013, 03:52 AM   #3
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^^ an answer...

Quote:
Originally Posted by rdsii64 View Post
I have an opportunity to by a used 3.0 ghtz 8 core mac pro. its an mid 2007 2.1 with 20 gigs of ram with and an outdated 8800 gt that will get replaced if I decide to by it.

I have two questions.

A) Is this computer worth the $800.00 asking price?
B) will it run 10.8 MTN Lion?
The correct answer:
  1. Yes, that's just slightly on the cheap side for that model. With 20GB to 24GB RAM they go for about $850 to $900 typically.
  2. Yes, but you have to use a special kernel-loader to do it. It's not hard (from what I've read). I'm about to do it myself too. Maybe in the next couple of months. (I'm slow like that sometimes )

Last edited by Tesselator; Jun 17, 2013 at 03:57 AM.
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Old Jun 17, 2013, 03:55 AM   #4
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I would ditch the 2,1 Mac Pro all together and either find the 2008 3,1 Mac Pro which has support for EFI64 and will run ML very well, or the BEST bet is to get the 2009 Mac Pro and this is where the 09 shines: Full upgradability to 6-core processors should your needs change. You will require the 4,1 to 5,1 firmware which would turn your 4,1 2009 into a 5,1 2010/2012.

For Mac Pros 3,1 - 5,1 = Mountain Lion will run just fine.. 1,1 and 2,1 will require you to tweak ML in order to get it to run on those machines and will also require u to inject 64-bit kernel support from Chameleon boot loader which is used on hackintoshes.

I would just go with the 2009.. if you don't need 6-cores, then 2008 3,1 or still 2009 is the best bet.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rdsii64 View Post
I have an opportunity to by a used 3.0 ghtz 8 core mac pro. its an mid 2007 2.1 with 20 gigs of ram with and an outdated 8800 gt that will get replaced if I decide to by it.

As for the price? I have seen 1,1 and 2,1 Mac Pros below 800.00

I have two questions.

A) Is this computer worth the $800.00 asking price?
B) will it run 10.8 MTN Lion?


----------

Special kernel loader is what hackintoshers use.. its called Chimera or Chamelon and its not for the faint of heart.. its kind of complicated for those without hacking experience and I assume the OP does not want to waste time trying to get ML working on 1,1 or 2,1 Mac Pro.

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Originally Posted by Tesselator View Post
A) Yes, that's just slightly on the cheap side for that model.
B) Yes, but you have to use a special kernel-loader to do it. It's not hard (from what I've read). I'm about to do it myself too. Maybe in the next couple of months. (I'm slow like that sometimes )
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Old Jun 17, 2013, 04:00 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tesselator View Post
A) Yes, that's just slightly on the cheap side for that model.
B) Yes, but you have to use a special kernel-loader to do it. It's not hard (from what I've read). I'm about to do it myself too. Maybe in the next couple of months. (I'm slow like that sometimes )

That is terrible advice IMO

B - Its does not only require that you hack the Mac Pro you also need to replace the graphic card with a special one ... and to hack a Mac Pro with a hacked kernel is realy unstable . Trust me I did this on my Mac Pro 2006 that Ive purchased in 2006 for more then 30 GRAND and its almost useless now so DONT DO IT

If you check the Mac Benchmarks List

http://browser.primatelabs.com/mac-benchmarks

For 800 bucks I would highly consider a Mac Mini

Mac Pro Early 2008 Scores - 10415 in Geekbench

Mac Mini Late 2012 Scores - 11678 in Geekbench

and going Mac Mini you will not only have a faster Machine you will also have a machine that will run the OS X version for the next comming 6 years . Your Mac Pro will NOT run ANY of them .

ALSO

Mac Pro 2008 have 800 Mhz Memory
Mac Mini 2013 have 1600 Mhz Memory (Twice the speed !!)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mac_Pro

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mac_Mini
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Old Jun 17, 2013, 04:01 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spunkgarLEWII View Post
I would...
1) He's asking about the price not our opinion on performance. But I can add on the performance issue that it's every bit as good as the MP3,1 2.8GHz you mentioned.

2) Really, you think downloading two files and setting 2 or 3 software switches after reading the instructions is difficult? I wana make a joke about working for McDonalds at this point.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Tussen69 View Post
you also need to replace the graphic card with a special one...
I read that it works fine with the 8800GT (the card he's getting).

Also see #1 and #2 above.
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Old Jun 17, 2013, 04:18 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tesselator View Post
1) He's asking about the price not our opinion on performance. But I can add on the performance issue that it's every bit as good as the MP3,1 2.8GHz you mentioned.

2) Really, you think downloading two files and setting 2 or 3 software switches after reading the instructions is difficult? I wana make a joke about working for McDonalds at this point.





I read that it works fine with the 8800GT (the card he's getting).

Also see #1 and #2 above.
Joking that you are working there at McDonalds ?

If you have a problem that people tell you that you make terrible advice . Its your problem . I still think saying YES to A & B are terrible advice . Ergo I say NO to A & B

Seriously its a peace of cake to do the patch work but it makes the machine unstable ... for crying out load its a hacked kernel !!! IT makes the machine unstable ! And not future proof.

FYI you have no clue where Im working . but its way higher in the food chain that you can ever EVER imagine . LOL Maybe I make more $$$ a week then you make in a month so dont even go there . Learn to deal with criticism. And deal with fact. And maybe learn one or two things about Karma !
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Old Jun 17, 2013, 05:51 AM   #8
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If you can wait a few months you may catch a fire sale from the folks interested in the MP 6.1
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Old Jun 17, 2013, 09:04 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tussen69 View Post
...working there at McDonalds
Ya, I figured that was your skill level.


Quote:
Seriously its a peace of cake to do the patch
Then why did you lie about it?

Quote:
it makes the machine unstable
Another lie? You're the only one I've heard this from. Of course I've only read 15 or so folks who have done it. They all claimed it worked fine without issue. One guy had the 10.8.3 update cause a little trouble but I think that was solved by downloading the combo updater IIRC.

Quote:
for crying out load its a hacked kernel !!!
Incorrect. It's not a hacked kernel. It's the normal kernel from what I understand. The loader just loads it instead of the ROM based one. You could barely even call it a "hack" if you were being honest.

Quote:
IT makes the machine unstable !
You said that already. I didn't believe you the first time either.

Quote:
And not future proof.
Nothing is.

Quote:
FYI you have no clue where Im working . but its way higher in the food chain that you can ever EVER imagine.
Ah, Wendy's it is then OK.

Quote:
LOL Maybe I make more $$$ a week then you make in a month so dont even go there . Learn to deal with criticism. And deal with fact. And maybe learn one or two things about Karma !
I don't believe you here either. No one normal starts yelling about how much they make and tries to use that as a basis for credibility. Also it's not about criticism - you're just wrong is all. I have that machine's little brother - the 2.66 8-core w/32GB RAM and 12TB RAID0 + 6TB RAID0, GTX 570 - and use it 12 to 16 hours every day - it runs 24/7 even so.

I use it for rendering occasional CG, processing and editing about 1,000 16mpx RAW images per month, compositing video FX, editing multiple streams of 1080p24 video, and playing games including but not limited to: Borderlands II, Diablo III, Call Of Duty 4, CounterStrike G.O., Dirt II, Starcraft II, QuakeLive, and The Wicher II)

And I did all of that on the 8800GT before I got the GTX 570 and everything was just fine with the sole exception of The Wicher II. Well, and sometimes FX+multiple video streams lagged a little in some editors - But adding the $90 GTX 570 cured all that. For what I do with it this machine trounces the newest MacMini and according to several users here the 3GHz version the OP is asking about, is faster than the newest iMac as well. It's roughly the same speed as the as the MP3,1 (2.8GHz). And in the configuration the OP posted it typically sells for $850 to $900. Every once in awhile someone here claims to get a striped down version (4GB RAM and 7300GS) for between $400 and $600 but I take it those are fairly rare and get snapped up soon (because they're way worth it!). Thus for sure, $800 for one with 20GB of RAM and eight 3GHz cores is a good deal. Heck, he could sell the RAM for $450, the CPUs for $100 each, the GPU for $50, and keep the case, MB, KB/Mouse, ODD, PSU, HDD and etc. for just about free.

Last edited by Tesselator; Jun 17, 2013 at 09:17 AM.
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Old Jun 18, 2013, 05:07 AM   #10
rdsii64
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Well for what its worth, I let this 2.1 mac pass and decided to by a 2.8 ghtz 8 core 3.1 instead. It cost me a little less than the 2.1 would have. It was hard to pass up 3 ghtz processors and 20 gigs of ram but having a system that OFFICIALLY supported 10.8 was worth the trade. Anyway I've got a new (to me) 8 core mac pro for cheap. An entry level video card like the ATI HD5770 will let me run final cut pro X and I will still be under 1000. It looks like my new (to me) system will run 10.9 too. Now I can retire my 24" Core 2 duo iMac to a life of leisurely web surfing.
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Old Jun 19, 2013, 12:45 PM   #11
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Originally Posted by rdsii64 View Post
Well for what its worth, I let this 2.1 mac pass and decided to by a 2.8 ghtz 8 core 3.1 instead. It cost me a little less than the 2.1 would have. It was hard to pass up 3 ghtz processors and 20 gigs of ram but having a system that OFFICIALLY supported 10.8 was worth the trade. Anyway I've got a new (to me) 8 core mac pro for cheap. An entry level video card like the ATI HD5770 will let me run final cut pro X and I will still be under 1000. It looks like my new (to me) system will run 10.9 too. Now I can retire my 24" Core 2 duo iMac to a life of leisurely web surfing.
Cool, you'll dig it. The 3,1 is a nice machine - and if you keep a look out you can pick up 32GB or RAM for that machine for $450 or so. And if you don't mind an almost imperceptible speed hit you can find 32GB of 667MHz RAM for $250 or so.
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Old Jun 21, 2013, 01:36 PM   #12
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Cool, you'll dig it. The 3,1 is a nice machine - and if you keep a look out you can pick up 32GB or RAM for that machine for $450 or so. And if you don't mind an almost imperceptible speed hit you can find 32GB of 667MHz RAM for $250 or so.
That was a wise decision. When I bought my new 3.06gig 12 core Mac Pro last year, I gave my son my 2008 2.8 Gig Dual quad core. We filled it with 24 gigs of ram, and an ATI 5770. He put Windows 7 on it to play games, and I was surprised it runs them as good as it does. He already has his eye on the Nvidia GTX680, which should give him a sizable speed boost. The machine is kept on 24 hours a day, every day as is mine, and neither unit has had one day down for anything really. These are very solid, proven workstations, that like the Energizer Bunny just keeps on going, and going, and going. People can say what they want about these towers, but they are super easy to upgrade, and EXTREMELY
reliable! Good luck!

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Old Jun 21, 2013, 02:15 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tony3d View Post
That was a wise decision. When I bought my new 3.06gig 12 core Mac Pro last year, I gave my son my 2008 2.8 Gig Dual quad core. We filled it with 24 gigs of ram, and an ATI 5770. He put Windows 7 on it to play games, and I was surprised it runs them as good as it does. He already has his eye on the Nvidia GTX680, which should give him a sizable speed boost. The machine is kept on 24 hours a day, every day as is mine, and neither unit has had one day down for anything really. These are very solid, proven workstations, that like the Energizer Bunny just keeps on going, and going, and going. People can say what they want about these towers, but they are super easy to upgrade, and EXTREMELY
reliable! Good luck!
Not to drive this off topic, but I suspect you made a good choice there. It sounds like it allows you to complete work, and realistically you could wait out revision 1. I really suspect that with the 2 gpu thing, they wouldn't go that route unless they were expecting higher GPGPU prevalence, but that takes time. By the time all of your software is really aligned with the new machine, it might be past mid-cycle. That is assuming the outlook for it is actually good. I hate the number of chipset features that it doesn't use more than anything. You could get 6 drives on the SATA bus and just back up to a DAS solution.
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Old Jun 21, 2013, 03:36 PM   #14
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Not to drive this off topic, but I suspect you made a good choice there. It sounds like it allows you to complete work, and realistically you could wait out revision 1. I really suspect that with the 2 gpu thing, they wouldn't go that route unless they were expecting higher GPGPU prevalence, but that takes time. By the time all of your software is really aligned with the new machine, it might be past mid-cycle. That is assuming the outlook for it is actually good. I hate the number of chipset features that it doesn't use more than anything. You could get 6 drives on the SATA bus and just back up to a DAS solution.
Yes, I was really disappointed by the small speed bump on 2012, and lack of USB3, T/B, but I had to buy then, because the 2008 was just not cutting it anymore. I plan to upgrade the GPU to the GTX680, and add a PCIe SSD. That should keep me going a few more years. The 3.06 12 core was a big jump in render time over the 2008. About 2.5 times faster! After seeing these first Benchmarks for the New Mac Pro, I think I made the right choice. Here are my benchmarks compared to the new Pro. Not bad for the previous model. After seeing those marks, I went out and bought AppleCare.
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Old Jun 23, 2013, 05:24 AM   #15
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Almost here

According to the tracking number. my new (to me) machine will be out for delivery monday. It still has snow leopard on it. For now that's enough to give it a good shake down and make sure all the bits work. After that it's a fresh 10.8.4 install, an HD5770, and FCP X. I'm sure down the road I will try out one of those spiffy SSD drives. Right now I need to get the necessities upgraded first.
I should finish my beer, stop rambling and go to bed, but I'm stoked about my new machine. Hell, I might even do one of those corny unboxing vids for youtube. Ok thats a bridge to far but you get the point. (chuckle) I'm off to sleep.
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Old Jun 23, 2013, 01:39 PM   #16
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According to the tracking number. my new (to me) machine will be out for delivery monday. It still has snow leopard on it. For now that's enough to give it a good shake down and make sure all the bits work. After that it's a fresh 10.8.4 install, an HD5770, and FCP X. I'm sure down the road I will try out one of those spiffy SSD drives. Right now I need to get the necessities upgraded first.
I should finish my beer, stop rambling and go to bed, but I'm stoked about my new machine. Hell, I might even do one of those corny unboxing vids for youtube. Ok thats a bridge to far but you get the point. (chuckle) I'm off to sleep.
Let us know when you get it.
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Old Jun 23, 2013, 02:00 PM   #17
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It is slow. It takes very expensive memory. Only aging Pro's to consider are 4,1+. There is support, there is an upgrade path, memory is cheap.
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Old Jun 24, 2013, 02:12 AM   #18
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It is slow. It takes very expensive memory. Only aging Pro's to consider are 4,1+. There is support, there is an upgrade path, memory is cheap.
If I can correct, memory for any mac pro is not going to be cheap. What upgrade can you do to a 4.1 that you cannot do to a 3.1?
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Old Jun 24, 2013, 02:58 AM   #19
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The MacPro 4,1 can take normal DDR3 1333 ECC and is actually quite cheap. I got 24Gb (3x8Gb) for $180. If you go for DDR 1066 it's even cheaper.

800 Mhz FB-DIMMs for the MacPro 3,1 are what's scarce these days. Cheapest j can currently find us $521 for 16 gb (4x4Gb) or $630 for 16gb (2x8Gb).

FB-DIMM 32 Gb kits (4x8Gb) are running in the $1000 range.

Yeah - its a significant delta from what I've seen so far on the DIY market for RAM when comparing MacPro 4,1 DDR3 and MacPro 3,1 DDR2-FBDIMM.
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Old Jun 24, 2013, 04:43 AM   #20
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If I can correct, memory for any mac pro is not going to be cheap. What upgrade can you do to a 4.1 that you cannot do to a 3.1?
1 PCI-E V-2 slot
IDE Optical Drives

on top of the

Cheaper RAM

I like them all different strokes for different folks
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Old Jun 24, 2013, 11:33 AM   #21
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If I can correct, memory for any mac pro is not going to be cheap. What upgrade can you do to a 4.1 that you cannot do to a 3.1?
Crucial today:
8GB 2007, 2008 Mac Pro = $299.99
24GB 2009, 2010 Mac Pro = $269.99

There is a BIG difference. It may not matter to you, but it would to me.
You can flash a 4,1 to a 5,1 and put in 6-core Westmere processors and 1333MHz memory effectively netting yourself a 2010/ 2012 Mac Pro. Can't do that with 3,1.
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Old Jun 24, 2013, 02:09 PM   #22
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Crucial today:
8GB 2007, 2008 Mac Pro = $299.99
24GB 2009, 2010 Mac Pro = $269.99

There is a BIG difference. It may not matter to you, but it would to me.
You can flash a 4,1 to a 5,1 and put in 6-core Westmere processors and 1333MHz memory effectively netting yourself a 2010/ 2012 Mac Pro. Can't do that with 3,1.
I found 16 GB for 250 the other day. I don't remember the brand but it was official ECC fully buffered ram. Being able to flash a 4.1 to a 5.1 is an advantage for sure, but a 4.1 was past my spending limit. Besides after these 6.1's are on shelves for a while I may be able to pick up a 4.1 or even a 5.1 for what I can afford. In any respect this machine is head and shoulders above an beyond what is on my desk now.
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Old Jun 24, 2013, 02:59 PM   #23
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I found 16 GB for 250 the other day. I don't remember the brand but it was official ECC fully buffered ram. Being able to flash a 4.1 to a 5.1 is an advantage for sure, but a 4.1 was past my spending limit. Besides after these 6.1's are on shelves for a while I may be able to pick up a 4.1 or even a 5.1 for what I can afford. In any respect this machine is head and shoulders above an beyond what is on my desk now.
Pic's please! inside, and out!
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Old Jun 24, 2013, 07:27 PM   #24
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I found 16 GB for 250 the other day. I don't remember the brand but it was official ECC fully buffered ram. Being able to flash a 4.1 to a 5.1 is an advantage for sure, but a 4.1 was past my spending limit. Besides after these 6.1's are on shelves for a while I may be able to pick up a 4.1 or even a 5.1 for what I can afford. In any respect this machine is head and shoulders above an beyond what is on my desk now.
That is a good deal for the memory if not crap. Good luck with everything. I was just giving options if you had extra budget beyond the $800.00.
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Old Jun 24, 2013, 07:35 PM   #25
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That is a good deal for the memory if not crap. Good luck with everything. I was just giving options if you had extra budget beyond the $800.00.
I have to do some more checking, but I believe its the same brand that shipped in these when they were new. I just have to make sure they are 4 gig sticks and not 2, and I'm not sure if the come with factory heat sinks or not. keeping fingers crossed though
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