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Old Dec 16, 2013, 12:30 PM   #26
aarond12
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As much as it enrages people, I believe the Cimarron comparison is fair (though the Volt is a much better car than the old Cavalier the Cimarron was based on).

Why? Cadillac took a subcompact car (yes, the Volt is considered a subcompact, partially due to its 4 seats), tweaked it a bit, and put a Cadillac badge on it. That doesn't make it a bad car, it just makes the comparison a little more plausible.

That being said, I would much rather get a base Tesla Model S for the same money as the base ELR. Tesla's "as long as you didn't try to wreck your car, we'll cover repairs" warranty that they have is outstanding. I also like the lack of complexity and maintenance that a full electric (not a plug-in hybrid* like the ELR) has.

* The ELR, like the Volt, is a parallel hybrid, meaning when all three clutches are engaged, both the motor AND the engine can directly power the drive wheels. This makes it a plug-in hybrid.

* The BMW i3 and Fisker Karma (RIP) are examples of serial hybrids, meaning only the electric motors power the wheels ever. The range-extending engine does not have the ability to power the wheels at all. That makes those cars extended-range EVs.
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Old Dec 16, 2013, 12:47 PM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aarond12 View Post
As much as it enrages people, I believe the Cimarron comparison is fair (though the Volt is a much better car than the old Cavalier the Cimarron was based on).

Why? Cadillac took a subcompact car (yes, the Volt is considered a subcompact, partially due to its 4 seats), tweaked it a bit, and put a Cadillac badge on it. That doesn't make it a bad car, it just makes the comparison a little more plausible.
The reason why I can't stand the Cimarron comparison because it isn't quite at the same level. Yes, the Cadillac is based on a lower end model. Not denying that. But, a lot of companies platform share. Are you going to call the ATS and CTS Cimarron jobs when the Camaro shifts over to the Alpha platform?

The Cimarron is a rebadge. The worst kind of rebadge.

Thumb resize.

Thumb resize.

They didn't do much to differentiate it between the Cavalier.

Now take the ELR.....

Thumb resize.

Volt:

Thumb resize.

That is properly redone for Cadillac. It wasn't just a slap a Caddy badge on a Cavalier job. That is why I think it is unfair to make that comparison. It shares the platform, but it isn't a rebadge.


Quote:
That being said, I would much rather get a base Tesla Model S for the same money as the base ELR. Tesla's "as long as you didn't try to wreck your car, we'll cover repairs" warranty that they have is outstanding. I also like the lack of complexity and maintenance that a full electric (not a plug-in hybrid* like the ELR) has.
No doubt I would too. The ELR is beyond overpriced.

Voltec is a complicated system. Though the gas engine doesn't power the wheels directly. Only thing it does is help the electric motors operate in their most efficient operation. Any acceleration is still done by the electric motors and power sourced from the battery.

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Last edited by quagmire; Dec 16, 2013 at 12:55 PM.
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Old Dec 16, 2013, 05:42 PM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by quagmire View Post
The reason why I can't stand the Cimarron comparison because it isn't quite at the same level. Yes, the Cadillac is based on a lower end model. Not denying that. But, a lot of companies platform share. Are you going to call the ATS and CTS Cimarron jobs when the Camaro shifts over to the Alpha platform?

The Cimarron is a rebadge. The worst kind of rebadge.

Thumb resize.

Thumb resize.

They didn't do much to differentiate it between the Cavalier.

Now take the ELR.....

Thumb resize.

Volt:

Thumb resize.

That is properly redone for Cadillac. It wasn't just a slap a Caddy badge on a Cavalier job. That is why I think it is unfair to make that comparison. It shares the platform, but it isn't a rebadge.




No doubt I would too. The ELR is beyond overpriced.

Voltec is a complicated system. Though the gas engine doesn't power the wheels directly. Only thing it does is help the electric motors operate in their most efficient operation. Any acceleration is still done by the electric motors and power sourced from the battery.

YouTube: video
I will agree that it's not just a re-badge. I do however predict it will fail.
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Old Dec 19, 2013, 09:01 AM   #29
aarond12
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Originally Posted by quagmire View Post
Voltec is a complicated system. Though the gas engine doesn't power the wheels directly. Only thing it does is help the electric motors operate in their most efficient operation. Any acceleration is still done by the electric motors and power sourced from the battery.
According to GM, that isn't true. There are three clutches in the Volt. MOST of the time, you're right -- the gas engine is only there to supplant or charge the batteries. However, in specific modes on the Volt, all three clutches can be engaged, directly driving the wheels from the engine.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=80E1fOp95rA

This is why the Volt is a parallel hybrid system (plug-in hybrid) instead of a series hybrid system (extended-range EV). The difference is razor thin, but still there.
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