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Old Oct 4, 2012, 07:43 AM   #26
KnightWRX
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Originally Posted by kot View Post
Deep hatred apple haters feel for Apple products and for people who use them is something to be worried about.
So is deep love apple fanboys feel for Apple products and the company.

Extremes on both sides, who display emotions towards corporations and innanimate objects and refuse to see the truth behind them are bad. I don't know why you single out haters. Haters/lovers both fit this pattern we should be worried about.
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Old Oct 4, 2012, 03:18 PM   #27
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Originally Posted by kot View Post
What? Apple was the pioneer, the inventor, the innovator, that shaped the whole industry. Many technologies we take for granted today were pioneered by Apple. For example — Wi-Fi.
When did Apple invent Wifi again?

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Originally Posted by kot View Post
that first clamshell iBook was the first laptop with WiFi.
The first laptop with built in wifi, you could buy expansion cards with WIFI for PC laptops of the time. And Apple in no way shape or form made wireless networks take off, esp considering the Mac marketshare was hovering around 2% at the time.

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Originally Posted by kot View Post
No, there weren't any notebooks with Wi-Fi before the first iBook.
Yes there were, you just inserted a Wifi card into the expansion slot of a PC laptop, install the drivers. And boom, wifi.

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Originally Posted by MonkeySee.... View Post
He took Apple and made it the most valuable company in the world.

He took Pixar and made it the best Animation Studio in the world.
And how did that change the world? It didn't.

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Originally Posted by swingerofbirch View Post
The iBook may have been the first Apple laptop with WiFi built-in, but you could add Wi-Fi to PowerBooks prior to that through their PCMIA slots. PowerBooks used to be extremely expandable. You could swap out optical drives, add extra batteries, all sorts of stuff.
So your saying the iBook introduced the ****** disposable laptop?

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Originally Posted by kot View Post
Wi-Fi means nothing per se, it's useless, it's not even something tangible. It's just a standard. What matters most is the end product which makes use of the technology. Now you see Wi-Fi everywhere, everywhere and a laptop which has no wifi support noone is going to buy. Wasn't that a revolution? Not to mention all modern laptops are based on the design of Apple's Powerbook 100.
Indeed, on the Powerbook 100.

And you could get Wifi on other laptops via expansion cards, which was a better option at the time, as wireless networking evovled VERY quickly in the early days.

The Mac had like a 2 or 3% marketshare back then, its silly to think it swayed the entire PC industry that was litterally 50 times the size of Apple back then.

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Originally Posted by kot View Post


Wasn't the automobile based on the wooden wagon? Should beavers sue the USA for the Hoover Dam? BTW Xerox had nothing to do with drag'n'drop or overlapping windows. Their GUI concepts were extremely simple and abstract unlike what Apple created for the Macintosh (the complete GUI solution) and what Microsoft later ripped off.
The early automobiles were, but the mass produced automobile was a totally different animal.

Xerox had everything to do with the concept of the GUI, the entire idea of a GUI and the mouse came from Xerox, so.

Apple stole it, and added things. Then microsoft stole it and added things.

Thats why the case was thrown out of court.

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Originally Posted by boss.king View Post
And yet Apple merely implemented it, not invent it, as I said.
Indeed, and their implementation was pretty small at the time, everyone was just using expansion cards back then. Which were just as good.

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Originally Posted by kot View Post
What does it matter? WiFi was a product of cooperation between several companies who specialized in communication. Apple is and have always been a system vendor and software company. They don't have to invent specialized electronics. However you have them to thank for your wireless network at home. Not Dell, not Microsoft and definitely not Samsung.

And you don't have Apple to thank for it, as I said. At the time the Mac Marketshare was so small, it had zero effect on the PC market. Laptops had wifi that weren't macs, they were just in expansion cards.

The early wireless networks were developed by NCR and AT%T, so you can put lots of thanks in them.

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Quote:
Originally Posted by boss.king View Post
No, I'll thank the person who invented Wi-Fi actually. How do you know it wouldn't have become the standard on it's own.
Because Apple commanded with a 3% marketshare, the entire industy bowed down to Steve jobs, and said " we will take this tech that you formed out of clay, and bask your greatness in our products. Amen "

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Quote:
Originally Posted by kot View Post
It wasn't a single person, it was a joint effort.
And it was Apple who paved the way for it to your home, because noone was seeeing IEEE 802.11 (no, it wasn't called Wi-Fi back then) as a technology useful to consumers. Give them credit where credit is due already.
Apple had ZERO sway in the industry at the time, and they certainly did not create the standard. Wireless networks existed before Apple, sorry.

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Originally Posted by kot View Post
You're missing the point. Think about architecture. Bricks and glass aren't worth a dime, but when you throw them together — in a really right way — you end up with something great, something generations will marvel at.

And who really marvels at Intel ABG3955 wireless chips?
.
Who marvels are a ****ing phone?

And an Intel Wireless Chip? If you had even a vague understanding of how something like a wireless chip works, or a video card, or hell, anything computer related, you would understand the massive amount of innovation, engineering, genuis and plain ole hard work that goes into things like Wifi.

Without those bricks and the glass, your pinch to zoom would never exist, neither would your iPhone.


What people don't get, is that Apple is not a hardware company, they are a design house. They contribute nothing to the industry as a whole. They have not in a very long time.

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Quote:
Originally Posted by kot View Post

Deep hatred apple haters feel for Apple products and for people who use them is something to be worried about.
I am not an Apple hater, or lover.

I don't hate or love a faceless multinational cooperation. I give them money, they give me the product in exchange for my money. And I leave it at that.

I also am brand Agnostic, I will buy whatever products suits my needs the best, regardless of who makes it, Weather it be Apple, Samsung, Microsoft, Google, or whoever.
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Old Oct 4, 2012, 04:18 PM   #28
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Originally Posted by kot View Post
Digital distribution first and foremost is an online platform, an online store which delivers goods digitally.
Steam came out in 2004. Canonical had the Ubuntu Software Center up and running at least a couple of months before the first unveiling of the functionally similar App Store.

Apple didn't come anywhere near close to inventing digital distribution.

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Originally Posted by G51989 View Post
What people don't get, is that Apple is not a hardware company, they are a design house. They contribute nothing to the industry as a whole. They have not in a very long time.
I wouldn't say that. They might not be the inventors and creators Kot believes them to be, but they are very much one of the biggest trend setters in the industry. Like they didn't invent the smartphone. The didn't even invent a quarter of the things involving smartphones that they're regularly given credit for. But you can't deny that they're not at least partially responsible for shaping the mobile scene as we know it today.

To semi-paraphrase WRX, Apple doesn't invent, they take what other people have made, and make it elegant, trendy, and easy to use.
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Old Oct 4, 2012, 04:44 PM   #29
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I love Apple. I would say that old Apple was innovative. They made all thing innovative, for example Macintosh. It was something COMPLETELY new. When Steve made NeXT they were innovative (NeXT Cube, NeXT Workstation). First iPod was innovative, first iPad was innovative but what are they doing for computers after 2002? Only big thing was Macbook Air and Macbook Pro Retina because it was something new. Now every Macbook is just faster, lighter and with better battery life.

User who used iPhone 3G, iPhone 4S, iPod Classic, Macbook Air and Macbook Pro.

EDIT: I know that it is easier to say than make something new but hey it was apple who stared it!
Hope Apple will release something completely new (not smaller iPad)
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Old Oct 5, 2012, 01:40 AM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by G51989 View Post
When did Apple invent Wifi again?
They are not supposed to be inventing wireless technologies. It's not their field of interest. They make computers and gadgets.

Quote:
The first laptop with built in wifi, you could buy expansion cards with WIFI for PC laptops of the time. And Apple in no way shape or form made wireless networks take off, esp considering the Mac marketshare was hovering around 2% at the time.
I don't think so. The first version of 802.11 was finalized as a standard in 1999.
[/quote]

Quote:
Yes there were, you just inserted a Wifi card into the expansion slot of a PC laptop, install the drivers. And boom, wifi.[COLOR="#808080"]
I seriously doubt that. The first version of IEEE 802.11 was certified in 1999, the same year when Jobs introduced Airport.

[quote
And how did that change the world? It didn't.[COLOR="#808080"]
[/quote]
Wifi didn't change the world? Oh, well. Have you been living under a rock?

Quote:
Indeed, on the Powerbook 100.
See?

Quote:
The Mac had like a 2 or 3% marketshare back then, its silly to think it swayed the entire PC industry that was litterally 50 times the size of Apple back then.
Just one word, "the Iphone". Should I continue?

Quote:
Xerox had everything to do with the concept of the GUI, the entire idea of a GUI and the mouse came from Xerox, so.

Apple stole it, and added things.
Simply, no. I don't even want to explain as you clearly are not here to find the truth vbut to indulge your apple hating desires.


Quote:
And you don't have Apple to thank for it, as I said. At the time the Mac Marketshare was so small, it had zero effect on the PC market. Laptops had wifi that weren't macs, they were just in expansion cards.
Oh yeah, and the Macbook Air had nothing to do with the whole ultrabook thing. Apple is so small. By the way, you are gravely mistaken. Apple has 91% of $1000+ laptop market. That's huge.

Quote:
The early wireless networks were developed by NCR and AT%T, so you can put lots of thanks in them.[COLOR="#808080"]
Yeah, but they are useless to me if I can't have them in my gadgets.


Quote:
Because Apple commanded with a 3% marketshare, the entire industy bowed down to Steve jobs, and said " we will take this tech that you formed out of clay, and bask your greatness in our products. Amen "[COLOR="#808080"]
the iPhone.


Quote:
Apple had ZERO sway in the industry at the time, and they certainly did not create the standard. Wireless networks existed before Apple, sorry.[COLOR="#808080"]
Apple had ZERO sway in the mobile industry in 2007. Zero, absolutely nothing, at all. Acer would even mock them for that and where's Acer now and where is Apple?

Quote:
Who marvels are a ****ing phone?
Lol, many! I'm telling you, many many people.

Quote:
And an Intel Wireless Chip? If you had even a vague understanding of how something like a wireless chip works, or a video card, or hell, anything computer related, you would understand the massive amount of innovation, engineering, genuis and plain ole hard work that goes into things like Wifi.
I don't deny the massive amount of hard work put into designing those chips.

Quote:
What people don't get, is that Apple is not a hardware company, they are a design house. They contribute nothing to the industry as a whole. They have not in a very long time.
Well, what?

Quote:
I don't hate or love a faceless multinational cooperation. I give them money, they give me the product in exchange for my money. And I leave it at that.
Who the hell cares about faceless multinational corporations? I certainly don't.
Quote:
I also am brand Agnostic, I will buy whatever products suits my needs the best, regardless of who makes it, Weather it be Apple, Samsung, Microsoft, Google, or whoever.
Exactly the reason I buy Apple products.

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Steam came out in 2004. Canonical had the Ubuntu Software Center up and running at least a couple of months before the first unveiling of the functionally similar App Store.
The iTunes Music Store was opened in 2003.
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Old Oct 5, 2012, 12:24 PM   #31
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Originally Posted by boss.king View Post
They implemented it in a new product, but that's not inventing something...
Invention is over-rated. Almost everything you think was a major invention was really invented by someone else who is almost unknown and who failed to put their idea in a useful form or to get anyone to notice. That benefits no one.
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Old Oct 5, 2012, 01:03 PM   #32
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No-no-no. Digital distribution is digital distribution of paid and free multimedia content to end consumers wuithout the use of physical media. FTP is not digital distribution. Digital distribution first and foremost is an online platform, an online store which delivers goods digitally.
The phone companies had OTA digital distribution long before most. Ringtones. Wallpapers. Apps. That's the big piece of pie that Jobs wanted to control.

BREW app developers for non-smartphones had been paid over $1 billion in royalties before the iPhone even came along. Ringtones were a half billion a year business at the time.

Palm and Handango online app stores had been around since before the turn of the century.

One of the most backward things about iTunes to me, is that it took so long for Apple to get away from the wired tether transfer of digital goods from a host computer to the end product... whereas others had gone wireless direct to the device long before.
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Old Oct 5, 2012, 01:13 PM   #33
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Originally Posted by kot View Post
Apple had ZERO sway in the mobile industry in 2007. Zero, absolutely nothing, at all. Acer would even mock them for that and where's Acer now and where is Apple?
What does this have to do with the conversation at hand? We're talking about Apple supposedly popularizing wifi, not their success in the mobile sector with the iPhone.

Quote:
The iTunes Music Store was opened in 2003.
And Napster came out in, what? 99?
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Old Oct 5, 2012, 08:22 PM   #34
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Originally Posted by Renzatic View Post
And Napster came out in, what? 99?
And before that, we distributed files over dial-up BBSs using z-modem, kermit, ymodem or over the Internet using HTTP or FTP or NNTP or heck e-mail.

The underlying protocol, the legitimacy of the distribution or the fact it's paid for or free does not change anything.

BTW, my first RedHat install was done as digital distribution, with a single floppy disk enabling me to install the full OS right from FTP, in 1998 or so. Slackware has had a network enabled installer since god knows when, usable over NFS.
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Old Oct 5, 2012, 09:11 PM   #35
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Snip
Yup. It's pure ignorance on Kot's part to assume iTunes heralded the birth of downloading files off the internet. It's even more ignorant to deny the protocols that allowed for downloading files off the internet to fit his concept of what "digital distribution" is to strengthen his claim. I know from personal experience I've been downloading relatively large game and scene demos since I got my first proper PC back in 1996-97. Going even farther back than that, I remember my uncle using one of those old rubber cup modems to download something off a BBS for his old Atari 800XL back in...I dunno...'86 or so.

The concept of magically getting files over a wire came about long before the turn of the century.

Though if I do have to claim iTunes as being the first at something, it was, at least by my memory, the first legitimate internet based music store. Even then, the technology and concepts behind it weren't exactly new things.

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Originally Posted by MonkeySee.... View Post
He took Pixar and made it the best Animation Studio in the world.
He didn't take Pixar and make it the best animation studio in the world. That was solely on the shoulders of John Lasseter, Ed Catmull, and the rest. He backed Pixar, and helped it grow.
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Old Oct 5, 2012, 09:27 PM   #36
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Originally Posted by kot View Post
Many technologies we take for granted today were pioneered by Apple. For example — Wi-Fi.
No that's false.

Apple gave it a "cute" name (Airport) to make it seem special & unique to Apple, just as they do with nearly every other existing technology Apple decides to use.
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Old Oct 5, 2012, 09:53 PM   #37
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> The iTunes Music Store was opened in 2003.

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Originally Posted by Renzatic View Post
And Napster came out in, what? 99?
Illegal copying goes back to the dawn of copyright law. Before napster, before reel-to-reel tape drives, music companies complained about copying piano rolls and printed sheet music.

Figuring out how to distribute digital music plus negotiating all the proper legal arrangements with the major media companies would have been far more difficult without the CEO of a major film studio (and companies with several Oscars and Emmys) involved.

I doubt Bill Gates or Michael Dell would have gotten as far if they started a couple years ahead of Steve.
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Old Oct 5, 2012, 10:03 PM   #38
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Illegal copying goes back to the dawn of copyright law. Before napster, before reel-to-reel tape drives, music companies complained about copying piano rolls and printed sheet music.
We're talking about the technology behind digital distribution, not the morality or concepts of piracy.

Quote:
Figuring out how to distribute digital music plus negotiating all the proper legal arrangements with the major media companies would have been far more difficult without the CEO of a major film studio (and companies with several Oscars and Emmys) involved.

I doubt Bill Gates or Michael Dell would have gotten as far if they started a couple years ahead of Steve.
I dunno. MS did a pretty good job negotiating the rights to broadcast shows and sports with all the major networks for Xbox Live here recently. Steve Jobs wasn't the only guy in the industry who could schmooze and kiss ass to get what they want.
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Old Oct 6, 2012, 01:21 AM   #39
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Yup. It's pure ignorance on Kot's part to assume iTunes heralded the birth of downloading files off the internet.
It's pure ignorance on your part to equal downloading files off the internet to digital distribution.
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Old Oct 6, 2012, 01:34 AM   #40
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We're talking about Apple supposedly popularizing wifi, not their success in the mobile sector with the iPhone.
funny how Apple haters will go to unmeasurable lengths to deny Apple of anything good, of any invention on their part, of any innovation on their part, of any impact on the market, to portray them as some small insignificant bunch of businessmen who for some obscure reason got too much publicity and a flock of sheep-like fans.

Now that's pure fanaticism.
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Old Oct 6, 2012, 01:54 AM   #41
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It's pure ignorance on your part to equal downloading files off the internet to digital distribution.
Isn't downloading files off the internet the very definition thereof? I mean it's files...

...being distributed...

...digitally.

Whether it's from a online store front housed within it's own program, a random website, an FTP server, or a BBS, it's all...

...wait for it...

...digital distribution. Because they're files being distributed digitally.

Quote:
funny how Apple haters will go to unmeasurable lengths to deny Apple of anything good, of any invention on their part, of any innovation on their part, of any impact on the market, to portray them as some small insignificant bunch of businessmen who for some obscure reason got too much publicity and a flock of sheep-like fans.

Now that's pure fanaticism.
Yeah. I'm such an Apple hater I bought an iPad 3 and an iPhone 4. That's right. I spent close to a grand on Apple hardware so I could have a leg up in internet flame wars. I'm so damn brilliant.

Okay. Seriously. I don't hate Apple. Don't think anyone here does. Well, maybe G51989 does. I dunno. But whatever. What we're all complaining about are people who have this pathological need to put Apple in the greatest light possible, to the point where they skew history, make up stories, and give them credit where credit isn't due.

Sure, they've done a lot of good stuff over the years. I even admit to them being at least halfway responsible for the current mobile craze not even a few posts up above. But what they didn't do was invent digital distribution, popularize wifi, conceptualize the smartphone, create capacitance, turn water into wine, or come up with the brilliant combination of aluminum and glass.

I dunno if you're a fanatic or not, but you're the only one here acting like one.
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Old Oct 6, 2012, 06:05 AM   #42
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Illegal copying goes back to the dawn of copyright law. Before napster, before reel-to-reel tape drives, music companies complained about copying piano rolls and printed sheet music.
The initial claim was Apple invented digital distribution. Patches, files, pictures, music, it was all digitally distributed, even some legitimately, since networking has been with us.

The first release of the Linux kernel was done as digital distribution in 1993. Before that, project GNU used digital distribution over the Internet... etc...

Heck, I think mp3.com had launched a service for indies to distribute mp3 music legitimately too before the iTunes store launch anyway. EDIT : it worked as far back as 1999, with indie music listing and... gasp... digital distribution of mp3 music, legitimately.

So kot's claim is just wrong.
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Old Oct 6, 2012, 09:01 AM   #43
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Okay. Seriously. I don't hate Apple. Don't think anyone here does. Well, maybe G51989 does. I
I don't hate Apple at all. I don't hate companies, I buy what I like the best. I don't care about the branding on it ( Well unless its GM, Damn garbage motors )

But when people make insane claims like " apple made wifi popular " or " apple made the first actually smart smart phone! ", I need to call em out.

To many people worship this company, and it creeps me out. If your gonna worship something, go donate to the Catholic church or something, because they'll put your money to good use

I can't stand FUD.

And I can't hate apple seeing this as I'm typing this on my iMac......
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Old Oct 6, 2012, 11:18 AM   #44
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Apple has always been at the cutting edge, but they are rarely the ones that come up with the original idea.

For example, I remember seeing a doc where the creators of Quicktime were inspired by an episode of Star Trek where Data was able to play many different pieces of music at the same time on his computer.

But what Apple does best is take bring lots of different ideas together and make a device that people like to use.

Before the iPad, most companies were perfectly happy to sell pen driven tablets with resistive displays. That isn't to say that multitouch displays weren't in existence, but no one seemed interested in combining one with a tablet and then designing an interface based around touch (rather than just sticking a mouse driven OS in there and expecting people to control with a pen). This is why Apple does so well, they aren't generally first to come up with a product, but they are first to implement the different technologies in a way that works.
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