|Mar 23, 2013, 10:16 PM||#76|
Something interesting: I just enabled noatime (by default, OSX records last access time for every file), since it's recommended for SSD's to reduce writes to the disk. So far, it seems like disk writes have been reduced by about 20-30%. That might help speed things up a little, especially for you HDD folks.
|Mar 24, 2013, 03:28 AM||#77|
The trouble with not being implicitly tied to the OS means that timing errors and I/O errors are more or less "generic" when presented to the kernel. It can't tell, per se whether or not the I/O error was specifically from the drive or whether or it was caused by a bad cable. That's why people like me like Scannerz. If the problem is repeatable in cursory mode, it's the media (drive, SSD, whatever) causing the problem. It it isn't repeatable from scan to scan, it's being caused by a cable or something in the circuitry and it can be traced to the major component level.
To go off topic for a moment, after moving back to Lion I wanted to test the actual performance of the GUI stuff to see if the performance difference was real or my imagination.
Below are some comparisons between the two (TSTM means to short to measure). I'd open an app on both Lion and Mountain Lion and time the amount of time it takes for each to open with a digital stop watch. TSTM really means that I can't click the start and stop buttons fast enough to measure it. These obviously aren't scientific, I just wanted to find out if the performance difference was real or my imagination. It wasn't my imagination, Lion's loading stuff a lot faster.
Command: Open Safari
Lion: 1.5 sec.
ML: 7 sec.
Command: Open TextEdit
ML: 5 sec
Command: Open Mail
Lion: 2 sec
ML: 8 sec
I knew it wasn't my imagination. And now I can sync notes to the iPhone again without iCloud.
|Mar 24, 2013, 10:19 AM||#78|
OH MY GOD!!!!!! SERIOUSLY???????
It happened again. One of my programs crashed (MenuTab Pro) which was usually a sign that my disk drive had disconnected. So I opened an MS Word Document, and … I couldn't save it. Neither Disk Utility, not Scannerz would start properly.
Will restart the computer and see if Scannerz finds anything.
I seriously want to destroy my computer right now.
Edit: Ran Scannerz again, and there were no errors.
Running the "mount" command in terminal, I get:
I did not mention this before. The last time I fully reinstalled OSX, OSX randomly placed some files from Glimmerblocker into the "Incompatible Software" folder without notifying me. (It had previously notified me when I first installed 10.8.3 the day before that the random Parallels 7 files had been placed there.) Yesterday, I reinstalled Glimmerblocker, which is a very tiny program. After doing this, Time Machine made a huge backup file of 19GB, which apparently included all of my Applications, my Library, and my System/Library files. This seemed very strange to me.
If Glimmerblocker is the source of the problem (and I cannot think of a reason why it would be), I'm thinking I should disable it for two weeks and see if the problem stops. But according to Time Machine, I installed Glimmerblocker in early September, while the problem started in early/mid October.
Another thing I have noticed: I have a shortcut to my main Parallels VM in my Doc. By default, it's icon is a red Parallels logo, but after these crashes, or after a SafeBoot, it shows up as the default document icon (blank page with a dog ear) until I click on it again. I'm assuming this simply means that the document icons in the Dock are part of a cache that is cleared upon hard restarts, but I wanted to make sure. Time Machine says that my Dock from October 17, 2012 did not have this shortcut, fyi.
Console/ New Problem?
Since updating to 10.8.3, I have had several problems with my application windows not responding when I clicked on the icon for the active program in the Dock. Closing the program and restarting fixes it. Possibly related, my Console is repeatedly becoming clogged with *LOTS* of:
Problem: Computer randomly disconnects from the hard drive so that I am unable to save to disk, though the system otherwise appears functional. There is no consistent interval between these crashes, but it probably averages about once every 2-3 days. Has lasted up to 8 days before. If I can make it 14 days, I will consider the problem solved.
Symptoms: Inconsistent, but I usually know that my drive will fail to save after -ONE- of the following occurs:
1) Certain Applications (usually BetterTouchTool or MenuTab Pro) randomly crash. Word has done it too.
2) Most Applications (excluding Console) are unable to launch, and are left paralyzed in the Dock.
3) Unable to access keychain.
4) Unable to load extensions when starting Safari. (And possibly, extensions failing when Safari opens.)
5) Unable to access wifi: sometimes this is related to keychain problems (#3), but sometimes it happens when wifi simply won't work, possibly correlated with bad wifi for other Macs in the area.
When wifi fails to connect, it is the least likely of the above to be a symptom. When any of the first four occur, it almost certainly means my drive has disconnected.
Cause: Unknown. Seems to happen more when I am moving my computer between locations, but not always. (Today, I did not move my computer before this happened.) It is most likely caused by Either:
1) SSD: At first, I had no reason to believe the SSD was the problem, but later found that Scannerz was reporting some errors, that were not present when I started this thread. I reinstalled my entire system from Time Machine to the SSD, and now Scannerz reports no errors. The i/o problem persists.
*Sidenote* My SSD has a 3-year warranty, so I have plenty of time to trade it out if the SSD is still the most likely suspect.
2) Cable/Logic Board: This is still a possibility. It would explain the inconsistency, as well as the proneness to happening after moving my computer. While I was on vacation, it would happen 2-3 times a day, especially when I had my computer in my lap. It can still happen when I am sitting at a table, but it is much less frequent. But of course, correlation is not causation. (Cable is connected properly.)
3) Bad wifi/ Bad Disk Connections: I would sometimes have this problem in class, right after all the other students with Macs had wifi drop as well. It has also happened at school, shortly after I had ejected my Time Machine disk too quickly.
4) OSX 10.8.2: The problem first showed up on October 10, 2012, only a few days after the last build of 10.8.2 (October 4), which makes sense from a timing standpoint. On the other hand, very few people have reported this problem, and it has just happened again, with 10.8.3 installed. If it is a bug introduced in the October build (which I was initially hoping for) I will be waiting for a *very* long time.
5) TRIM enabled/Sudden Motion Sensor disabled: These settings are recommended for users of SSD's on a Mac. I disabled TRIM at the behest of many users here, but the problem persisted. I left TRIM disabled, however, due to the plausibility that TRIM had somehow caused data corruption on my SSD. With a full reinstall from Time Machine, plus a full reinstall of OSX (thus restoring all system files), I'm thinking it is safe to reenable TRIM (unless someone here disagrees). After trying SMS enabled/disabled, I believe this has nothing to do with it.
6) Software: So far, I have considerred BetterTouchTool, TotalFinder, SideEffects, Time Machine, and Parallels as possible suspects. I not uninstalled all of these long term, but so far, disabling some of SideEffects does not solve the problem, nor does refraining from launching Parallels, nor does reinstalling TotalFinder, BetterTouchTool, or Parallels. Disabling Time Machine does not prevent the problem either. I might be investigating Glimmerblocker soon. (see above)
7) Permissions/Disk Utility/PRAM/SMC/Safe Mode/Resetpassword Utility (for Permissions): none of these have fixed the problem.
Last edited by ObeseSquirrel; Mar 24, 2013 at 04:45 PM.
|Mar 24, 2013, 09:34 PM||#79|
What we know for facts are the following:
1. At one point Scannerz detected bad sectors on your SSD, which in my opinion shouldn't have happened because the SSD is supposed to auto correct and catch them.
2. Mountain Lion is an extremely buggy operating system. Some of the very types of disconnects you described were similar to what I was getting with some applications, and I'm not running anything particularly intensive. Here's a list:
That's a lot of bugs for doing trivial stuff.
To me, you have three suspects: The SSD, possible cable problems, and the operating system itself.
I don't know if you can do this, but I would get off Mountain Lion as task 1. I've also been reading about others having fairly significant problems with driver (KEXT) compatibility problems and those are serious, crash worthy bugs. I don't know if you can do that because all your backups are likely now from ML. I would try either Lion, or probably even better yet, Snow Leopard. I have none of the problems I've listed above with either of them.
If you can do task 1 and the problems persist then you know it's either the SSD, a cable, or some other problem, but at least you'll know it wasn't the OS. If the problems go away then you know it's the OS. Another thing you could do is contact SCSC's tech support and let them try and help you - you paid for Scannerz so what harm could it do to ask? They know more about this crap than we do!
There are simply too many bugs with Mountain Lion to be ignored.
Last edited by TheBSDGuy; Mar 24, 2013 at 09:44 PM.
|Mar 25, 2013, 09:15 PM||#80|
… including one called "ioatafamily.kext," which apparently has something to do with hard drives.
I'm going to give it another go, because out of the remaining suspects, running my system from a hard drive for awhile would be the easiest, and I'm not really in the mood for that sort of thing… (DVD drive is still too finicky to run AHT. Well, maybe not now. Hoping…)
EDIT: eh… repeat runs show roughly the same number of errors, meaning it isn't repairing much… Maybe it fixed something. But at least it doesn't seem to make anything worse.
Last edited by ObeseSquirrel; Mar 25, 2013 at 09:26 PM.
|Mar 28, 2013, 03:32 AM||#81|
I don't know if that will do the trick for you, but who knows, it might. If it doesn't I'd SERIOUSLY contact SCSC for tech support. I'm serious. They're located about 7 miles from where I live and they give good tech support, even if the problem ends up not being something Scannerz would have detected anyway. It's almost like getting free consulting. You paid for Scannerz, why not take advantage of all their services.
|Apr 2, 2013, 03:00 PM||#82|
I found the problem!!!!!
It was the SATA cable.
1) I used some compressed air to clean out the disk drive. Afterwards, I was finally able to boot from the AHT disk. (re: Superdrive problems)
2) I then ran AHT on long mode, and then short mode on loop all night. No problems found.
3) I wondered whether dust had gotten caught under the logic board, causing problems similar to those in my Superdrive. Research says that dust almost never caused short circuits, but I wanted to make sure. (I have not been having overheating problems.) I sprayed the compressed air under the logic board and found some dust bunnies, but nothing major.
4) I then wondered whether I had spilled a coke or something under the board, and just didn't remember it. I was about to remove the logic board to look underneath. And when I unsnapped the SATA cable from the board, I found itÖ
If you look closely at the attached picture, you can see four holes in the cable; one large white one, and three small copper-colored ones. And on the plastic casing to the Superdrive, you can see what appears to be four matching burn marks. My theory is that SSD would disconnect whenever the SATA cable got bumped against the Superdrive, causing a short circuit. That would explain why the problem happened more frequently whenever the computer was moved.
I am confused about the exposed cable hitting the plastic casing, which does not seem like it would be conducive to electricity. However, I am now 99% sure that I have found the problem, and this is a HUGE relief.
Will get this thing repaired shortly.
Last edited by ObeseSquirrel; Apr 2, 2013 at 03:05 PM.
|Apr 3, 2013, 05:09 AM||#83|
No, you think you have the problem solved. The problems you've been having have been multiple, unrelated to one another in some cases, and erratic.
Bad sectors or blocks on an SSD should have nothing to do with a SATA cable, or at least I don't think so. That's a bonafide media failure. The Wi-Fi problems you've been having are probably due to nothing more than the erratic nature of Wi-Fi. The erratic nature of the problem was likely why the advice given to you to "tap on the bottom of the unit was given" ... it's to try to induce a fault...it just wasn't enough to do it (perhaps if you hit it with hammer???)
I think in this case you're just one of those unlucky people ... you know, the type of guy who gets a flat tire, fixes it, thinks all is well, and then the radiator in the car spring a leak. One unlucky thing after another.
I'm going to shoot SCSC a link to this post because I think they need to add a continuous mode of testing to Scannerz in cursory mode...they seem to listen to customers, so maybe they'll do it. Who knows? If a continuous mode was added, Scannerz might have caught this problem much earlier. Just my opinion. It is, after all, doing essentially the same thing that AHT is doing, it just doesn't lock out the user from the system to get it done.
You need to be patient and see if the problem is really fixed. Based on your photo, I would say the culprit may very well be identified, but only time will tell. Your saga seems to be "everything's working fine" and then a few days later "everything's screwed up."
I will, however, give you kudos for having the b*lls to open your system up and try to isolate the problem. That's a lot more than a lot of other people would consider doing...or do it properly.
Good luck and I hope this works out for you.
|Apr 3, 2013, 08:06 AM||#84|
I had to laugh when you said that I'm one of those unlucky people. After jiggering with the SATA cable, I had a really hard time getting my Mac to boot, and even then, it would instantly jump to "do-not-save-anything-or-access-keychain-mode." Tapping the bottom of the computer made the computer more likely to boot up. This was, sadly, the only time I was ever able to make this error repeatable, but I think it more or less confirms that I was correct. (Note: electrical tape does not fix a damaged SATA wire. ) It's kind of funny that I'm about to replace one of the last remaining original parts to my computer.
I may have mentioned earlier that about a year ago, I was having my computer repaired (turned out to be a logic board issue), and that while my computer was gone, I had tried to boot my SSD onto my school's computer using an external Firewire drive. But instead, I heard a click, and my entire drive had been deleted. At the time I had blamed Lion, so I ignored my prior experience and decided to give it another go.
So now my SSD is most likely erased (again), and I am currently working from an HDD on the external Firewire. (Must have been a firmware incompatibility on the SSD. Why does it have to erase things, though?) Luckily, I have a Time Machine backup that I can restore from. But I'm thinking that if you are correct that my SSD is genuinely in trouble, now would be a good time to take advantage of that 3 year warranty...
Last edited by ObeseSquirrel; Apr 3, 2013 at 08:13 AM.
|Apr 4, 2013, 02:19 AM||#85|
Ya know, that's about the tenth time I've read a post on this or other sites about SSDs suddenly losing all their data.
Rule number 1 for SSDs: Make sure you do daily backups
|Apr 4, 2013, 09:24 AM||#86|
I did send a Return to Manufacturer request to Corsair over the bad sectors issue, and also reported the drive-erase, so that maybe they can update their firmware.
The problem is that by the time they respond, I will probably have my new SATA cable, and I don't want to mess with Time Machine again only to end up replacing the drive anyway, as there's always something that doesn't copy right. (This last time, I had to reinstall all the printers.)
ugh... first world problems
|Apr 6, 2013, 10:04 AM||#87|
The fact is that a bad cable to a storage device can - and will - cause all sorts of weird and transient problems.
|Apr 9, 2013, 12:24 PM||#88|
So, I installed the new SATA cable on Friday, and have not had the disk error since then. Four days is hardly enough time to say the problem is solved, especially given my recent history and the unpredictability of this error, but my thinking is that my problem is solved.
Corsair accepted my Return to Manufacture request, and will hopefully send me a new SSD sometime this week. Until then, I should am operating off of a near-clean HDD, with Mountain Lion installed, along with a few apps for minimum functionality (BetterTouchTool, 1Password).
But this morning I had a weird kernel panic. I don't think it's related to my hardware problems, but I want to mention it here just in case.
I was using Safari, when suddenly, my trackpad refused to scroll or click. My cursor would still move around though. (Briefly, the cursor froze, but then it came back.) I closed the lid on my Mac, but the light stayed lit, and the computer did not go to sleep. I reopened my computer, and my computer restarted. I saw a gray screen, that said my computer had restarted because of a problem, and then my computer was back.
Here is the panic report:
If anybody understands these logs better than I do, please feel free to interject.
|Apr 11, 2013, 05:47 AM||#89|
I'd write that off as a YAMLB (yet another Mountain Lion bug) problem.
The fault is video related. From the logs the system is a MacBook Pro 7,1 which uses an NVIDIA GeForce 320M, and the very first messages in the log are all related to the card. The reason the tabs weren't saved is because the status gets saved periodically and on closing an app.
Unless this appears again and again, I wouldn't worry about it yet.
|Apr 14, 2013, 04:02 PM||#90|
Importantly, this error seems distinct from my earlier i/o problems. I have had graphics freezes in Mountain Lion before (usually related to Dashboard), but never this frequently. I first noticed these endless pages of "CoreAnimation" entries shortly after returning from my vacation/installing 10.8.3.
If anybody understands these console logs, please help me with this!
|Apr 14, 2013, 07:37 PM||#91|
I created a very similar thread in the early morning hours today. I discovered this afterward or I would have added my post here. Here is my original post and also a link to it:
I have a 2012 13" MBP with a Samsung 830 256 GB SSD.
Just tonight, I tried taking a screenshot and got a message that I did not have permission to. I then tried saving open files and was told there was an error.
Creating a new folder in the Finder caused a -50 error.
I tried rebooting and got to the Apple logo with spinning wheel but it never went anywhere. No error messages.
So, I restarted to Recovery Mode (Command-R). I opened Disk Utility from there, and it told me that there were errors with both the HD (listed as Samsung) and with Macintosh HD. The Macintosh HD error had something to do with the Journal. It could not be repaired.
So, I booted to a cloned drive I had made with SuperDuper. It booted very slowly and beachballed and my internal HD did not show up.
On a whim I decided to run Disk Utility from the cloned drive on the internal drive, and it again found errors but fixed them! I was so relieved (I do have a back-up clone but it's not terribly recent).
I could see the internal Macintosh HD and all the files appear to be there. I tried restarting to the internal drive, but it just stays on the spinning wheel.
I restarted back to the clone, and it still shows the internal drive. I verified it again, and it says the drive is OK.
So, it seems like I should be able to back-up my data tomorrow (I want to wait till I get a new drive because I don't want to write over the data on my cloned drive in case it corrupts what I already have saved).
But I'm wondering if once I back up, erase, and re-install my internal drive, assuming it works, should I trust it?
I have a few theories:
I do record a lot of video and use the drive pretty heavily. Could I have depleted the write cycles in 8 months of heavy use?
Could it be another hardware error on the computer that caused the drive to corrupt? The reason I ask is that this computer previously had the SATA cable between the hard drive and logic board fail, and I had similar problems where the computer wouldn't boot. On the MacBook Pro I had before this one, that same part failed 3 times! It seems to be a pattern for me that I have SATA cables fail.
Could it have been a software bug? The computer had some weird quirks since I got it back from my last repair. The repair depot installed Lion on it, even though it came with Mountain Lion. I upgraded it to Mountain Lion instead of doing a clean install. Something was odd with permissions in that I couldn't update iLife apps through the Mac App Store because it said that I had updates for a different user. I could never figure out what to do about that, but I always assumed it was a permissions issue, possibly caused by the depot installing Lion on a computer designed for Mountain Lion and possibly also installing iLife apps that had been registered to the depot instead of me. I don't know . . .
I guess I'll figure out the answers to my own questions once I back-up, erase, and reinstall OS X on the internal drive and see if it boots. I'm just worried that even if it does work, that it may still be failing and corrupt again due to either the SSD failing or due to something else like the SATA cable.
Thank you. Sorry I wrote so much. This got me so anxious, I didn't realize how much I wrote--I literally penned this out in a couple of minutes and the words got away from me!
When I tried selecting the Macintosh HD as the start-up disk from Startup Disk under System Preferences I got this message:
You canít change the startup disk to the selected disk.
The bless tool was unable to set the current boot disk.
That seems like an odd message for a disk that shows up OK under disk utility.
Is this a clue as to what's wrong?
|Apr 14, 2013, 10:41 PM||#92|
Also, maybe take a good look at your SATA cable like I did, though my error was distinctly different than yours appears to be. (Mine would work fine for several days, then would "disconnect" randomly, correlated with movement of the laptop.)
You might want to try running Scannerz, as this helped me some.
Consistent errors in the same places=problem with the drive.
Inconsistent errors = hardware problem
(though my hardware issue was rare enough that even Scannerz didn't pick it up, but it did find some errors in the drive.)
In any case, I think you will be best served resolving this issue in your own thread, as this one has already gotten pretty bogged down in my own issues, which may very well be completely different.
Best of luck to you.
|10.8.2, bug, disconnected, mountain lion|
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