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Old Oct 12, 2013, 09:47 AM   #126
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Originally Posted by ElectronGuru View Post
What you describe (what we have) is 'winner take all'. All of a district are represented by a single person, but in theory that rep is working for those specific people (which should be good except this were pork spending comes from). It also discourages new parties because you waste your vote if your party looses.

Proportional throws out districts and locational representation. Anyone in the country votes not for person but a party. Each party then gets seats in proportion with the number of votes they got nationally. Pork is eliminated but people in a single location also don't have a shared voice. If you vote for xyz new party, and 2M other people anywhere in the country do the same, xyz party gets a seat.

It would mean the end of big party dominance, since you could leave the big 2 and actually vote for something new. In theory, congress would have a much wider variety of people and ideas. There would still be coalitions, but change would be easier. The big question is who would decide the specific people chosen by each party. And there's also those pesky constitutional requirements.
Ah, yes. I knew that, just forgot. Thanks for the explanation.
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Old Oct 12, 2013, 09:57 AM   #127
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Doesn't have to be that way, here in Germany we have 2 votes.
One for a party which determinates how many seats they get, the other for a direct candidate (simple majority is enough) who will allways get a seat which is then substracted from the seats his party won.
Very interesting. Who decides which direct candidates are placed on the ballot? How did that system begin and how long has it been in place? And what do folks in German political forums complain about it?
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Old Oct 12, 2013, 10:11 AM   #128
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Then don't get me started on term limits on Congressional People, 4 terms in the House & 2 Terms as Senator.
I'm still not a fan of term limits and prefer for the voters to decide how long anyone serves in office.

Our current problems in Washington can be at least partially tied to a new batch of politicians, who by their tactics would appear to have benefitted from a little more experience in office.
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Old Oct 12, 2013, 10:24 AM   #129
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I'm still not a fan of term limits and prefer for the voters to decide how long anyone serves in office.

Our current problems in Washington can be at least partially tied to a new batch of politicians, who by their tactics would appear to have benefitted from a little more experience in office.

Also partially tied to the dudes who've been there for decades.
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Old Oct 12, 2013, 10:42 AM   #130
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Our current problems in Washington can be at least partially tied to a new batch of politicians, who by their tactics would appear to have benefitted from a little more experience in office.
I'm really annoyed. I both agree and disagree with this premise.
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Old Oct 12, 2013, 11:13 AM   #131
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Very interesting. Who decides which direct candidates are placed on the ballot? How did that system begin and how long has it been in place? And what do folks in German political forums complain about it?
Getting onto the ballot can be done by either being nominated throught the local organisation of a party or by getting a certain numbers of signatures to run as independent.

System was created in 1948 when the (West) German constition was written. Parties wanted both the need for coaltion (making it harder for a well-orginized minority to seize controll) and a prevention of the situation that lead to the self-destruction in the "Weimar"-Republic (1919-33).

Complaints are mostly bout the Bundestag being to big and in past times about the fact that parties could get more seats than the had won % of the vote.
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Old Oct 12, 2013, 11:25 AM   #132
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The difference to around here is that voters had 6 or 7 parties with realistic chances of making parliament to choose from. Makes it much harder to keep lunatics and crooks on the ballots without loosing serious ground.
But for that to work you need proportional representation.

We in the Netherlands, have 22 political parties, 14 sit in this parliament, 2 form the government, with the support of 3 parties to get legislation through our upper house.

The end of days nuts of the Tea Party are seen as complete lunatics from this side of the water.
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Old Oct 12, 2013, 12:32 PM   #133
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I agree. I'd like to see the House of Representatives, as well as state legislatures adopt proportional representation, where if 5% of the votes go to the Obscure Party, then the Obscure Party gets 5% of the seats. I'd also love to see all private money taken out of elections and have them funded solely through public funds.

What are your thoughts?
I would not vote for a person on their "promises". I would vote for the person based on their voting history in other political offices.

In a perfect world (I know it will never get there) I would love to see a no party elections and one based on the person instead of the party.
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Old Oct 12, 2013, 05:28 PM   #134
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System was created in 1948 when the (West) German constition was written. Parties wanted both the need for coaltion (making it harder for a well-orginized minority to seize control)
Wow


Quote:
Originally Posted by satcomer View Post
In a perfect world (I know it will never get there) I would love to see a no party elections and one based on the person instead of the party.
It's not so easy. Put 10 on a room and ask them to agree on a few things. Won't take long for coalitions to develop. Parties weren't part of the formation of our government. As I recall, Washington even tried to prevent parties. But denial didn't work for long and hasn't left us with a well functioning system.

It sounds like making a structure that both encourages and controls parties (accepts their necessity) creates a better balance.
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Old Oct 12, 2013, 10:04 PM   #135
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Originally Posted by Bug-Creator View Post
Getting onto the ballot can be done by either being nominated throught the local organisation of a party or by getting a certain numbers of signatures to run as independent.

System was created in 1948 when the (West) German constition was written. Parties wanted both the need for coaltion (making it harder for a well-orginized minority to seize controll) and a prevention of the situation that lead to the self-destruction in the "Weimar"-Republic (1919-33).

Complaints are mostly bout the Bundestag being to big and in past times about the fact that parties could get more seats than the had won % of the vote.
Unless I'm mistaken, the US played a big part in writing the Constitution for both Germany and Japan.
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Old Oct 13, 2013, 06:00 AM   #136
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Unless I'm mistaken, the US played a big part in writing the Constitution for both Germany and Japan.
That would be Marshall and company
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Old Oct 13, 2013, 06:16 AM   #137
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That would be Marshall and company
In Japan's case surely it was MacArthur?
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Old Oct 13, 2013, 12:30 PM   #138
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Looks like the Marshall plan was exclusive to Europe:

http://www.u-s-history.com/pages/h1852.html
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Old Oct 13, 2013, 02:50 PM   #139
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In Japan's case surely it was MacArthur?
McArthur ruled Japan like a king.

We didn't give the Japanese as fre reign as the Germans.
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Old Oct 13, 2013, 03:25 PM   #140
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McArthur ruled Japan like a king.

We didn't give the Japanese as fre reign as the Germans.
He emasculated workers' rights to sweeten the transition of the ruling clans (who had pushed Hirohito into war) into the postwar mega corporations.
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Old Oct 13, 2013, 03:52 PM   #141
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He emasculated workers' rights to sweeten the transition of the ruling clans (who had pushed Hirohito into war) into the postwar mega corporations.

All of that may be true. The one thing that through in any reading on McArthur is that he loved Japan and Asia. I know at times it didn't translate well and he pulled some stupid stuff but in the end I believe he thought he was doing what was right for them.

I'm a big fan of McArthur I see a lot of him in me.
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Old Oct 13, 2013, 03:59 PM   #142
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I'm a big fan of McArthur I see a lot of him in me.
I'm a big fan of the Buddha.

I see a lot of him in me.

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Old Oct 13, 2013, 04:10 PM   #143
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I'm a big fan of McArthur I see a lot of him in me.
Would you have nuked China?
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Old Oct 13, 2013, 10:32 PM   #144
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That would be Marshall and company
I believe the multi party system was put into place so as to reduce the power of the German govt. If anything, it seems to have created at least post re-unification, a pretty harmonious system. Maybe we should give it a try.
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Old Oct 14, 2013, 03:46 AM   #145
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I believe the multi party system was put into place so as to reduce the power of the German govt. If anything, it seems to have created at least post re-unification, a pretty harmonious system. Maybe we should give it a try.

I think he wanted a strong Germany to balance the Soviets. The best way to create a strong Germany was to let them reorganize themselves then help them rebuild.
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Old Oct 14, 2013, 09:57 AM   #146
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You watch and read very different web sites than I as well as get different things out of his speeches on this then I do.

I guess if you are a Liberal you feel he roles over if he gives anything, and if you are a Conservative you see it as he never meets in the middle on anything.
Obama has put cuts in entitlements and reduced nominal corporate tax rates (the latter from eliminating loopholes) on the table for over a year. The showstopper has been that that the GOP has drawn a line in the sand that the government cannot use one cent of revenues from closing tax loopholes to reduce the deficit. Not one red cent.

----------

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It's too bad the election wasn't solely about Obamacare. Had it been, Obama wouldn't have been re-elected.
http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epo...plan-1130.html

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Right. But as it happens, a slim majority of Americans have the intellectual capability to consider more than one issue at a time.

----------

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I see what you mean now.. They have to meet Presidential selection requirements, not just the position. So that means that the Speaker of the House must meet the same criteria for POTUS, regardless of if they run for Congress or not. Very interesting.

BL.
I don't think the Speaker needs to meet the qualification. He or she would just be passed over in succession. Outside of the Vice President, the order of succession is defined by Congressional statute, not in the Constitution. The requirement to be a natural-born citizen IS in the Constitution.
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