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Old Aug 15, 2013, 12:31 AM   #26
hulugu
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Originally Posted by lostngone View Post
Not according to the U.S. Government....

How can it possibly be torture? The U.S. Government used it and the President of the United States has stated on multiple occasions that we DO NOT torture people.
This is circular logic at the very best.

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...If it is torture as you stated why has no one been charged?
The US government has no interest in charging itself and the structure and politics of international justice courts make it unlikely that those who ordered the use of such tactics, not to mention those who actually committed them, will ever be tried.

Of course, this doesn't mean that US officials don't have to worry a little. In Malaysia, former Pres. George W. Bush was convicted of war crimes in absentia, along with Dick Cheney, Donald Rumsfeld and their legal advisers Alberto Gonzales, David Addington, William Haynes, Jay Bybee and John Yoo.

In 2011, Bush was forced to cancel a speaking engagement in Switzerland after the public pressured Swiss authorities to arrest him and charge him with war crimes.

And, former station chief Robert Seldon Lady was arrested in Panama because the Italians want him arrested. US officials managed to secure his release and he is now in the United States. Lady was part an operation to abduct Hassan Mustafa Osama Nasr from Milan, who was then taken to Egypt where he was tortured. Along with Lady, 22 other CIA agents were convicted and all will be arrested if they set foot on Italian soil.

US officials have escaped, not because what they did was legal or ethical, but because of US power and international politics.

If we step back for a moment, we can see that the lack of prosecution is not a defense for illegal behavior. And even if it's legal, that doesn't mean that torture isn't hopelessly evil.
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Old Aug 18, 2013, 01:49 AM   #27
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I don't see why waterboarding is really considered as much as it is as an interrogation technique. Aside from its cruelness and superfluousness, it doesn't really work in the first place. Whether it's what criminals/terrorists deserve or not, it usually results in getting really not much information out of people.
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Old Aug 18, 2013, 03:20 PM   #28
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I don't see why waterboarding is really considered as much as it is as an interrogation technique. Aside from its cruelness and superfluousness, it doesn't really work in the first place. Whether it's what criminals/terrorists deserve or not, it usually results in getting really not much information out of people.
It doesn't work?????
How do you figure????

Considering information obtained via water boarding lead to the death of OBL I would say it works pretty well.
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Old Aug 18, 2013, 03:26 PM   #29
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It doesn't work?????
How do you figure????

Considering information obtained via water boarding lead to the death of OBL I would say it works pretty well.
Panetta's quote on that:

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“The real story was that in order to put the puzzle of intelligence together that led us to Bin Laden, there were a lot of pieces out there that were a part of that puzzle. Yes, some of it came from some of the tactics that were used at that time, interrogation tactics that were used. But the fact is we put together most of that intelligence without having to resort to that.”
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Old Aug 19, 2013, 05:18 PM   #30
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It doesn't work?????
How do you figure????

Considering information obtained via water boarding lead to the death of OBL I would say it works pretty well.
Source?
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Old Aug 22, 2013, 12:07 PM   #31
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Something I was thinking of this morning: with all the non-lethal punishments, interrogation techniques, or whatever they're called, should you have it done to yourself before you're allowed to do it to others?

Take a look at tasters or water boarding. When used appropriately, they're non-lethal. But there have been so many things where I've heard people say "I wouldn't wish that on my worst enemy."

What do you all think?
I think there is never an appropriate use for torture. It's barbaric and we clearly have our heads in the sand if we don't think it only spawns more resentment towards the country that waves the flag and our "values" in the collective worlds faces.
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Old Aug 22, 2013, 12:45 PM   #32
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I think there is never an appropriate use for torture. It's barbaric and we clearly have our heads in the sand if we don't think it only spawns more resentment towards the country that waves the flag and our "values" in the collective worlds faces.
Plus, some people say it's the "only" way to get information out of people. How do they really know? Maybe they're not smart enough to find a less aggressive way to get the information. I remember one episode of the TV show NCIS where Ziva said something the lines of "Sex is an effective interrogation technique." I know, a TV show isn't the best source, but I think it's arrogant to say that torture or "enhanced interrogation techniques" are the only, much less best, ways to get information out of people.

Last edited by guzhogi; Aug 23, 2013 at 12:53 PM.
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Old Aug 22, 2013, 01:23 PM   #33
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I know, a TV show isn't the best source...

No, no it's not.
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