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Old Apr 19, 2013, 10:25 PM   #126
MuddyPaws1
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Originally Posted by likemyorbs View Post
OK then, explain to me how it doesn't exist. You're not even arguing with facts right now. You're just telling me it's all lies. somehow i doubt it.
There is no difference in the rules at a gun show. Hence, no gun show loop hole. You really need to actually read stuff before you get all worked up about it.
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Old Apr 19, 2013, 10:30 PM   #127
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There is no difference in the rules at a gun show. Hence, no gun show loop hole. You really need to actually read stuff before you get all worked up about it.
It's a big misconception.
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Old Apr 19, 2013, 10:54 PM   #128
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It's a big misconception.
But the politicians and the media have sold it well.
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Old Apr 20, 2013, 12:29 AM   #129
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Originally Posted by MuddyPaws1 View Post
There is no difference in the rules at a gun show. Hence, no gun show loop hole. You really need to actually read stuff before you get all worked up about it.
This notion of a "gun show loop hole" is some fantasy conjured up by the media and certain especially scummy politicians.

I challenge anyone to walk up to a table, try and buy and AR15, and insist you don't want a background check

How do I know? I've actually purchased firearms at a gun show before in two states and I've ALWAYS needed a background check. 100%, no exceptions.
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Old Apr 20, 2013, 09:07 PM   #130
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The only time you could buy a gun without a background check at a gun show is from an individual there, assuming you live in a state that allows that. That would be a private face-to-face deal not involving a dealer. This also does not fit the "gun show loophole" hype, as it is just as legal anywhere else within those states as it is at the gun show.
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Old Apr 26, 2013, 11:39 PM   #131
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Gun owners can do background checks NOW... without a mandate. If polls are accurate and gun-owners want background checks, why don't they just do it? It's simple enough to do and the system is already in place.
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Old Apr 27, 2013, 06:14 AM   #132
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I think Ms. Maisch put it quite well. Shame on them. This is an embarrassment to the United States. Even children being gunned down doesn't move these bastards.

I'd love to see each senator who voted against this go to the parents and explain face-to-face why their NRA grade is more important to them than those dead children.
Which dead children would extending background checks to online and gun shows save? Most recent school shootings were all legally purchased guns with solid background checks.

If you are going to sensationalize something it should at least apply to the situation.
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Old Apr 27, 2013, 11:31 AM   #133
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Okay, let's have each of the cowards who voted no find the next murder victim's family in their state who was shot with a weapon obtained by the private owner loophole, and explain themselves face to face.

Or if we stick with the Newtown parents, maybe Congress can explain to them the answer to Obama's question, "The American people are trying to figure out -- how can something that has 90 percent support not happen?"

NRA rating maybe?
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Old Apr 28, 2013, 05:26 PM   #134
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Originally Posted by Thomas Veil View Post
Okay, let's have each of the cowards who voted no find the next murder victim's family in their state who was shot with a weapon obtained by the private owner loophole, and explain themselves face to face.

Or if we stick with the Newtown parents, maybe Congress can explain to them the answer to Obama's question, "The American people are trying to figure out -- how can something that has 90 percent support not happen?"

NRA rating maybe?
Yes, let's do that. Next time someone is killed by a gun purchased legally sold by a private owner, lets make them explain it. Now how many times does that happen again ?
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Old Apr 28, 2013, 07:28 PM   #135
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Well, if you wanna put a number on it...

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Around 40% of all legal gun sales involve private sellers and don't require background checks. 40% of prison inmates who used guns in their crimes got them this way.
An investigation found 62% of online gun sellers were willing to sell to buyers who said they couldn't pass a background check.
20% of licensed California gun dealers agreed to sell handguns to researchers posing as illegal "straw" buyers.
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Old Apr 28, 2013, 08:17 PM   #136
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Well, if you wanna put a number on it...
http://bjs.gov/content/pub/pdf/fuo.pdf

Here's the outdated data they used. It also shows their figures are wrong.

I also stated legally sold. If we make private sales illegal, criminals are still going to buy guns illegally, so it would be a law that only affect honest law abiding citizens.

Just to clarify, when I state legally sold, I mean I own a clean weapon, and sell it to someone that I know is not a known felon. (Edit: I am not sure I like the wording. I don't know you, but if I was to sell you a firearm, I would ask if you were a felon. If I knew you, and knew that you were a felon, it is against the law for me to sell you that fire arm, thus that would be considered an illegal sale.) What I am looking for is how many felons buy a firearm from a private seller through deceit, (seller has still legally sold the firearm) and then used it in a crime.

The article you posted was written by a gun grabbing liberal. It's also bogus. "62% of online retailers in California would sell to someone that couldn't pass a background check." Really ? Would and doing are two different things. They can only legally sell to someone with a FFL. But the sad thing is that this is listed under the "Myth that We Don't Need More Laws but Need to Enforce Current Laws". If 62% of online retailers are selling directly to people that can't pass a background check then they are in violation of current law, and it does need to be enforced.

My favorite is from the link I provided, taken from the link you provided.

Quote:
Less than 2% of inmates reported carrying a fully automatic or military-style semiautomatic firearm.
Look, I am trying to have open-minded, adult conversation. I am not some inbred that's cracked out. If you wish to keep insulting me with wacked references like this, I'll have report you and find some else to talk with.

(Seriously, that's flawed data and I really am open minded. Let it also be known, that I have privately sold two firearms in my lifetime, but they were both sold to people I knew. I would never sell a firearm to someone I didn't know. )
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Old May 1, 2013, 07:24 PM   #137
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I don't get where any of that answers the president's question, "How can something that has 90 percent support not happen?" No matter what statistics any of us bandy about, that's still the big question, and the NRA is still the prime suspect.

While you point to the age of some of the data -- 2001 -- it hardly means there's been a radical change for the better since then, or that other data from 2010 is ancient history. Nor does parsing "would" and "doing" negate the 20% of dealers who agreed to illegal straw sales.

It's good that you're responsible enough not to sell a weapon to just anyone, but the person you're selling to may not be the final owner. And even if it were...you "know" the people, but everybody thought they "knew" Dzhokhar Tsarnaev. In fact, one of the most common traits of gun death news stories is the neighbor or family member who is shocked that the nice guy who lets you borrow his lawnmower is the same one who just shot his wife and two kids.

Yes, closing loopholes would be only a small step -- but at least it would be one. This country has a long way to go before it reaches the same level of maturity about guns as the rest of the civilized world.
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