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Old May 28, 2013, 09:39 AM   #151
pondosinatra
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Originally Posted by Kariya View Post
lol. Lets see how long the Snow Leopard lovers can cling on to their oh so beloved and bug free OS that's full of unicorns.

Soon you'll stop receiving security updates, then software will stop been supported for your OS, then hardware will promptly follow suit.

I guess Windows 8 or 9 will be in your futures soon.
Some flavour of Linux for me...

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Originally Posted by milo View Post
The biggest reason to stick with 10.6.8 and not upgrade is performance. Some nice things in .7 and .8 but personally I don't find enough to outweigh the down sides and recommend upgrading...
That was my issue. When Lion came out it was mostly superflous crap that was more about integrating iOS into OSX than having useful features. Then all the people started complaining about the bugs. From what I understand, ML mostly fixed things - but again I don't really care. Nothing compelling to me.
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Old May 28, 2013, 09:47 AM   #152
koban4max
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Originally Posted by Michael Goff View Post
Except that's not how programming for something as complex as an OS works....
really...and I thought snow leopard was efficient....
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Old May 28, 2013, 10:01 AM   #153
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Originally Posted by koban4max View Post
really...and I thought snow leopard was efficient....
You do realize that Snow Leopard was a lot less complex when compared to Lion and Mountain Lion, right?

Also, I was pointing out to "quick updates" being a good thing.
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Old May 28, 2013, 10:43 AM   #154
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Originally Posted by iBug2 View Post
Why ask why ask why?
Why ask why ask why ask why?


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Or it works for the rest of us and not for you.
Sure.

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Originally Posted by Walter White View Post
Or he just likes to play victim.
It's fun

In all seriousness, what's the point? These threads never change anyone's opinions and merely become a back and forth, tedious drudgery of who is "the most smartest". I've learned to just play along and not give in, it's more fun that way. Life's too short to tie oneself as loyal to an operating system on a computer. It's not too dissimilar from politics these days. I'll just keep swimming, just keep swimming, just keep swimming.
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Old May 28, 2013, 10:46 AM   #155
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Then tell me, why are there still many on SL, why after stop selling SL Apple decided to get it back, why do so many people prefer SL.
Well there are many things like stupidity or just doesn't know/care, hardware limitations, genuinely likes it better.


But doesn't mean that next thing is worse.
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Old May 28, 2013, 01:30 PM   #156
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Life's too short to tie oneself as loyal to an operating system on a computer. It's not too dissimilar from politics these days. I'll just keep swimming, just keep swimming, just keep swimming.
Actually it's quite the opposite. Life's too short to keep switching operating systems and learning everything once more. I don't have time for that. I need my OS's running and not waste time on the OS itself but on the apps I need to use.
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Old May 28, 2013, 02:58 PM   #157
dyn
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As for Craig Federighi, he is the S.V.P. of Software Engineering responsible for 10.7 and 10.8. Bertrand Serlet announced his departure in 2009, and officially left in 2011. Federighi began work on 10.7 in 2009, with Forestall's assistance in bringing iOS integration further into OS X. For a while after Serlet's departure, there was not a S.V.P. of Software Engineering until Federighi was finally on the board.
On march 23 2011 an official press release was released that Bertrand Serlet will leave the company in 2011 and Craig Frederighi succeeding him. A preparation of 2 years is a bit too much for something like that. Things like this take about 6 months to a year. This also means that from 2009 to 2011 both were working on OS X due to moving over leadership. Thus Craig Federighi can not be blamed for Lion. If he was to blame then so is Bertrand Serlet.

Quote:
Here is Federighi's 2010 Keynote for 10.7 Lion, which had some unfortunate "bugs" during certain tasks:
Do check out the keynotes before that and after that. Almost all of them have some sort of "unfortunate bugs" popping up.

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Since Federighi, OS X has been a hot mess. From network protocol overhauls in 10.7 with SAMBA, AFP being a complete nightmare, to the disaster that was the Exposé/Spaces overhaul "Mission Control".
Expose is always a mess for quite a lot of people. It was a mess in 10.4, it was a mess in 10.5, it was a mess in 10.6, it was a mess in 10.7 and people think it's a mess in 10.8 too. The problem is that it touches a very personal part of an OS: workflow. Everybody wants it a different way so there will always be a lot of people who'll dislike it.

AFP in itself is not the nicest protocol there is. Neither is something like Samba. I remember how much havoc AFP and SMB wreaked in 10.5 and 10.6 with quite a lot of people having data corruption. There have always been many many problems with those two and especially AFP. It has never been better than it is right now, especially with the SMB/CIFS support. It finally works properly with things like DFS and the new networking stuff in Windows Vista/7/2008/2012. It's absolutely the best decision they made: ditch Samba and fix something ourselves that actually works properly. It is far more reliable and so is Finder in regards of network drives since the rewrite in Lion (thank goodness for smbclient in Terminal).

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Thankfully "TotalSpaces" came out to bring back the much desired 10.5/6 "Spaces" and Apple brought back certain "Exposé" options.
Indeed it did. It's app like these that make an OS useful for anybody. That's how the ecosystem should be: get as much stuff in that pleases a lot of people but do it in such a way that 3rd party's can hook into it and make something that pleases other people. I don't mind developers choosing something as long as I have some way of changing it.

Quote:
While no variant of OS X has been "perfect" (10.1/2, ugh), Serlet certainly produced the superior releases of OS X.
Looking at all the problems I see that stability has gotten better over time but at a cost of new useful features. When 10.4 and 10.5 was released there were a lot of reasons to upgrade. Since 10.6 that has gone downhill a bit but so did the price tag!
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Old May 28, 2013, 03:20 PM   #158
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Originally Posted by dyn View Post
On march 23 2011 an official press release was released that Bertrand Serlet will leave the company in 2011 and Craig Frederighi succeeding him. A preparation of 2 years is a bit too much for something like that. Things like this take about 6 months to a year. This also means that from 2009 to 2011 both were working on OS X due to moving over leadership. Thus Craig Federighi can not be blamed for Lion. If he was to blame then so is Bertrand Serlet.


Do check out the keynotes before that and after that. Almost all of them have some sort of "unfortunate bugs" popping up.


Expose is always a mess for quite a lot of people. It was a mess in 10.4, it was a mess in 10.5, it was a mess in 10.6, it was a mess in 10.7 and people think it's a mess in 10.8 too. The problem is that it touches a very personal part of an OS: workflow. Everybody wants it a different way so there will always be a lot of people who'll dislike it.

AFP in itself is not the nicest protocol there is. Neither is something like Samba. I remember how much havoc AFP and SMB wreaked in 10.5 and 10.6 with quite a lot of people having data corruption. There have always been many many problems with those two and especially AFP. It has never been better than it is right now, especially with the SMB/CIFS support. It finally works properly with things like DFS and the new networking stuff in Windows Vista/7/2008/2012. It's absolutely the best decision they made: ditch Samba and fix something ourselves that actually works properly. It is far more reliable and so is Finder in regards of network drives since the rewrite in Lion (thank goodness for smbclient in Terminal).


Indeed it did. It's app like these that make an OS useful for anybody. That's how the ecosystem should be: get as much stuff in that pleases a lot of people but do it in such a way that 3rd party's can hook into it and make something that pleases other people. I don't mind developers choosing something as long as I have some way of changing it.


Looking at all the problems I see that stability has gotten better over time but at a cost of new useful features. When 10.4 and 10.5 was released there were a lot of reasons to upgrade. Since 10.6 that has gone downhill a bit but so did the price tag!
The smell of common sense...
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Old May 28, 2013, 04:09 PM   #159
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Originally Posted by Walter White View Post
The smell of common sense...
Meh, moving on.
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Old May 28, 2013, 04:25 PM   #160
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Meh, moving on.
Left, right, left, right ...
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Old May 28, 2013, 04:52 PM   #161
koban4max
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Originally Posted by Michael Goff View Post
You do realize that Snow Leopard was a lot less complex when compared to Lion and Mountain Lion, right?

Also, I was pointing out to "quick updates" being a good thing.
I don't think SL was that simple...it's complex as well. The problem is they don't care to fix the problems.

Also, quick update is good...quick and more..with quality fix would be great.
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Old May 28, 2013, 06:13 PM   #162
Michael Goff
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Originally Posted by koban4max View Post
I don't think SL was that simple...it's complex as well. The problem is they don't care to fix the problems.

Also, quick update is good...quick and more..with quality fix would be great.
SL was not simple, but it wasn't as complex as Mountain Lion.

Also, you can't have "quick and quality" fixes that do much of anything. The quickly updated browsers don't always get it right, sometimes they have to send out a quick patch afterward.

You expect a .x.x update to be quick and be good?
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Old May 28, 2013, 06:27 PM   #163
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Are you suggesting That the lack of those particular extensions explain the performance difference?
No, just showing the the HD 3000 is pretty much dead in regards to driver updates on OSX.
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Old May 28, 2013, 08:52 PM   #164
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I might just stop reading these beta release threads all together... people waste way too much time discussing things they know nothing about. I don't know what it is, but it's only apple product users that can make 50-100 page threads about what they think or guess will or should happen with any given thing, form, type, shape etc. discuss what we have, and wait until apple releases the info on the new things. This blind and childish guessing game is getting old.

Anyway, I have a deadline at work, see you all next week for another beta update
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Old May 29, 2013, 12:31 AM   #165
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Well in that case, I don't have this problem as both my machines restart within 10 or so seconds
Exactly, you're not affected. The times that people are reporting are far longer than 25 seconds just to shut down before it reboots. They were used to your times and one of the ML updates screwed it up. That's what the issue is all about, they wanted the original sub-10 seconds that OS X was able to do before.
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Old May 29, 2013, 01:09 AM   #166
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Exactly, you're not affected. The times that people are reporting are far longer than 25 seconds just to shut down before it reboots. They were used to your times and one of the ML updates screwed it up. That's what the issue is all about, they wanted the original sub-10 seconds that OS X was able to do before.
Yes and people like me have been asking for those people with the issues to do a clean install, gradually install applications till they find that the shut down is slow - then isolate that programme which caused the problem then notify the software vendor that their software is affecting OS X performance. Rather than a logical approach like that what we see on this forum are people throwing a wobbly thinking that some how if they make a big enough noise that their problem will be solved.
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Old May 29, 2013, 01:20 AM   #167
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Yes and people like me have been asking for those people with the issues to do a clean install, gradually install applications till they find that the shut down is slow - then isolate that programme which caused the problem then notify the software vendor that their software is affecting OS X performance. Rather than a logical approach like that what we see on this forum are people throwing a wobbly thinking that some how if they make a big enough noise that their problem will be solved.
Shut down is slow even after clean install of 10.8.3 and nothing else.
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Old May 29, 2013, 01:39 AM   #168
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Shut down is slow even after clean install of 10.8.3 and nothing else.
How slow? My rMBP shuts down in 25 sec or so. That's not slow. My Mac Pro shuts down a lot slower but that's due to too many external storage being mounted on desktop. If I dismount all of them first, it shuts down much faster.
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Old May 29, 2013, 03:35 AM   #169
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How slow? My rMBP shuts down in 25 sec or so. That's not slow. My Mac Pro shuts down a lot slower but that's due to too many external storage being mounted on desktop. If I dismount all of them first, it shuts down much faster.
I have a MacBook 3,1 base model. No upgrades and a very old Leopard install. Shut down is under 5 seconds. Tiger was instant. Now top of the line latest 27" iMac with SSD and 32 GB of RAM takes up to a minute. Clean or dirty install it's not 3rd party software that causes it.

I tried 10.8.0 on a 2011 iMac - normal shut down. 10.8.1 and 10.8.2 - normal shut down. Install 10.8.3. and all goes to ****.
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Old May 29, 2013, 03:59 AM   #170
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How slow? My rMBP shuts down in 25 sec or so. That's not slow. My Mac Pro shuts down a lot slower but that's due to too many external storage being mounted on desktop. If I dismount all of them first, it shuts down much faster.
Shut down was instantly under SL......
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Old May 29, 2013, 09:02 AM   #171
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Left, right, left, right ...
No, it's right, left, right, left. Sheesh.

For those claiming Serlet had a hand in 10.7 Lion, from Apple's own release, March 2011:

Bertrand Serlet to Leave Apple

Quote:
CUPERTINO, California—March 23, 2011—Apple® today announced that Bertrand Serlet, Apple’s senior vice president of Mac® Software Engineering, will be leaving the company. Craig Federighi, Apple’s vice president of Mac Software Engineering, will assume Serlet’s responsibilities and report to Steve Jobs, Apple’s CEO. Federighi is responsible for the development of Mac OS® X and has been managing the Mac OS software engineering group for the past two years.

“I’ve worked with Steve for 22 years and have had an incredible time developing products at both NeXT and Apple, but at this point, I want to focus less on products and more on science,” said Bertrand Serlet, Apple’s senior vice president of Software Engineering. “Craig has done a great job managing the Mac OS team for the past two years, Lion is a great release and the transition should be seamless.”

Federighi worked at NeXT, followed by Apple, and then spent a decade at Ariba where he held several roles including vice president of Internet Services and chief technology officer. He returned to Apple in 2009 to lead Mac OS X engineering. Federighi holds a Master of Science degree in Computer Science and a Bachelor of Science in Electrical Engineering and Computer Science from the University of California, Berkeley.

Serlet joined Apple in 1997, and has been involved in the definition, development and creation of Mac OS X, the world’s most advanced operating system. Before joining Apple, Serlet spent four years at Xerox PARC, then joined NeXT in 1989. Serlet holds a doctorate in Computer Science from the University of Orsay, France.

Apple designs Macs, the best personal computers in the world, along with OS X, iLife, iWork and professional software. Apple leads the digital music revolution with its iPods and iTunes online store. Apple has reinvented the mobile phone with its revolutionary iPhone and App Store, and has recently introduced iPad 2 which is defining the future of mobile media and computing devices.
Serlet officially announced his leave from Apple in March, 2011 but was not the head of OS X Software Engineering as Craig was already working on OS X since 2009. Serlet was riding out his tenure, when he could officially leave Apple made the press release. Serlet most likely assisted Craig while riding out his position, but his influence on OS X ended with 10.6.
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Old May 29, 2013, 06:32 PM   #172
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For those claiming Serlet had a hand in 10.7 Lion, from Apple's own release, March 2011:
Makes sense, Thanks.
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Old May 29, 2013, 06:52 PM   #173
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No, it's right, left, right, left. Sheesh.

For those claiming Serlet had a hand in 10.7 Lion, from Apple's own release, March 2011:

Bertrand Serlet to Leave Apple



Serlet officially announced his leave from Apple in March, 2011 but was not the head of OS X Software Engineering as Craig was already working on OS X since 2009. Serlet was riding out his tenure, when he could officially leave Apple made the press release. Serlet most likely assisted Craig while riding out his position, but his influence on OS X ended with 10.6.
I highly doubt Federighi came in and told Serlet to sit down and shut up. It's far more likely that Serlet had a large part in building Lion.
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Old May 29, 2013, 07:07 PM   #174
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Anyone running into this wonderful bug where the computer refuses to come back from sleep?

Because it's been happening since I updated. :|
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Old May 29, 2013, 10:24 PM   #175
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Anyone running into this wonderful bug where the computer refuses to come back from sleep?

Because it's been happening since I updated. :|
That's not a bug, it's a feature

Besides, why are you putting your Mac to sleep? No one does that any more /sarcasm
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