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Old Jun 16, 2014, 07:25 AM   #26
pitt1717
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guys, your all missing the point. if anyone were to try to cross any other countries border illegally, they would be sent back to country of origin.
to bring up that their children is moot. this is a loophole that the parents are using to gain citizenship here. i think there should be a UN resolution that states in circumstances like this, a parent for any reason drops a kid off with anyone to cause an illegal act on another country should be jailed by that originating country. (regardless of a real jail or not, the family should be reunited in the origin country)
lets face it, mexico is a democratic country and they can stop electing criminals to represent them. and if you bring up fear, they have 2 options, vote and get people in to change life for their children or elect the same people and have their children continue to live in fear. either way one or both generations will live in fear. might as well make the change....
we did it and became a country
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Old Jun 16, 2014, 08:28 AM   #27
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Originally Posted by pitt1717 View Post
guys, your all missing the point. if anyone were to try to cross any other countries border illegally, they would be sent back to country of origin.
to bring up that their children is moot.
this is a loophole that the parents are using to gain citizenship here. i think there should be a UN resolution that states in circumstances like this, a parent for any reason drops a kid off with anyone to cause an illegal act on another country should be jailed by that originating country. (regardless of a real jail or not, the family should be reunited in the origin country)
Any country that is a member of the U.N. is obligated to determine a person's status, as a refugee, displaced person, asylum seeker, economic migrant, etc.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Refugee
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Old Jun 16, 2014, 08:36 AM   #28
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i stated:
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i think there should be a UN resolution that states in circumstances like this,
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Old Jun 16, 2014, 10:39 AM   #29
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I love irony.. your pointless outrage is making me unhappy

If I'm completely honest I'd have said the most dangerous organised gang in the world where the police.

MS-13 a close second.

----------

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Originally Posted by Zombie Acorn View Post
No one with serious drug or violent offenses should be allowed into the US.
Ban all your troops from re-entering from Afghanistan then, after all they're implicit in murder on a grand scale.
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Old Jun 16, 2014, 10:40 AM   #30
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If I'm completely honest I'd have said the most dangerous organised gang in the world where the police.

MS-13 a close second.
Organized? I'm not so sure the police are all that organized. Federal, State, County, Local… all with different rules, chains of command and jurisdictional issues.
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Old Jun 16, 2014, 10:52 AM   #31
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Ok, just as a reality check border officials can and do access criminal history of travelers crossing through. It may not be 100% perfect but there is a scary amount of latitude given to reject entry of a non-citizen.

It looks like the article is referring to travel of people with visible gang tattoos to see family that is already in the United States (with or without status is unclear). Since the article references youths I'm going to assume that they have no criminal record, and guilt by association is tricky business. But could be grounds to refuse entry in the United States.

I'd guess that the checks run on these guys are clean, and that the reason for travel is valid. It's one of those grey areas (and I'll admit more on the dark side of the scale); but unless info changes on what they are up to once inside the US, then yeah some/many will be allowed in.
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Old Jun 16, 2014, 03:28 PM   #32
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Ok, just as a reality check border officials can and do access criminal history of travelers crossing through. It may not be 100% perfect but there is a scary amount of latitude given to reject entry of a non-citizen.

It looks like the article is referring to travel of people with visible gang tattoos to see family that is already in the United States (with or without status is unclear). Since the article references youths I'm going to assume that they have no criminal record, and guilt by association is tricky business. But could be grounds to refuse entry in the United States.

I'd guess that the checks run on these guys are clean, and that the reason for travel is valid. It's one of those grey areas (and I'll admit more on the dark side of the scale); but unless info changes on what they are up to once inside the US, then yeah some/many will be allowed in.
Exactly.

During the processing, Border Patrol agents could find that a 17-year old has known ties to MS-13 and has committed crimes in LA and they could legally separate that boy away from the group and immediately deport him under ICE policies.

So, there's no requirement that Border Patrol "let" that boy in. If Border Patrol is allowing MS-13 gang members to stay in the processing centers or even be moved to ORR, that's entirely the fault of both CBP and ICE.
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Old Jun 16, 2014, 04:02 PM   #33
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Has any legitimate news organization reported this? All I find is the usual rabble rousers, Breitbart, Newsmax, Washington Times, etc. I didn't even see it at Fox News but I only looked quickly.
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Old Jun 16, 2014, 04:20 PM   #34
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Has any legitimate news organization reported this? All I find is the usual rabble rousers, Breitbart, Newsmax, Washington Times, etc. I didn't even see it at Fox News but I only looked quickly.
There is one source for all the stories by conservative media, Chris Cabera, vice president of the National Border Patrol Council Local 3307 in the Rio Grande Valley.

The Washington Times' story also refers the National Review story, which includes Art Del Cueto, Art Del Cueto, president of the National Border Patrol Council Local 2544 in Tucson, Ariz.

I think everyone else, including us, is trying to pin down these details because it runs against ICE and CBP policy to detain and deport known criminals, so it doesn't make sense that the agency would keep MS-13 gang members in the United States.

Well, unless someone was trying to make a point.

Also, to complicate matters, MS-13 tends to force people into the gang through threats of violence—many boys coming from El Salvador report this—and so someone coming into the United States could have a gang tattoo and even belong to the gang, but is coming to the U.S. with an asylum claim.
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Old Jun 17, 2014, 03:21 AM   #35
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Organized? I'm not so sure the police are all that organized. Federal, State, County, Local… all with different rules, chains of command and jurisdictional issues.
Its like chapters of a gang though. Plus its a worlwide institution.

Despite how disorganised they are, they're still the most dangerous in the world. British police even refer to themselves as the biggest gang in the country.
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Old Jun 17, 2014, 07:27 AM   #36
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Its like chapters of a gang though. Plus its a worlwide institution.
No it’s not. Every single police department around the world is going the same job but they are doing it for different organizations. You cannot seriously lump individuals together just by the job description.

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Despite how disorganised they are, they're still the most dangerous in the world. British police even refer to themselves as the biggest gang in the country.
Except the British police have nothing to do with the police departments of any other country so what they refer to themselves as only is meaningful to their department and nowhere else.
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Old Jun 17, 2014, 08:49 AM   #37
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I suggest it's time to re-evaluate your life when you are trying to stereotype and demonise children through ideological xenophobia. It's disgusting.


Source please.
Well I can't quote a source or use a source to tell me that there are kids who are gang members. I can only go by what I have seen at the local youth camps and county jail. The ones that I have seen are usually in jail/youth camp/juvi hall for more than just petty theft or vandalism. We do not, usually, hold kids for petty crimes, only the more serious part I crimes are usually held.

Here are few links regarding kids under 18 in gangs, that I found after doing a quick search:

http://www.nationalgangcenter.gov/su...s/demographics

http://www.helpinggangyouth.com/statistics.html

http://www.statisticbrain.com/gang-statistics/

http://www.gangsandkids.com/gstats.html

Again, I won't comment on the illegal part, but there seems to be a "case" that there are kids under the age of 18 who are gang members. Of course I could be missing your point entirely.
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Old Jun 17, 2014, 12:50 PM   #38
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...Again, I won't comment on the illegal part, but there seems to be a "case" that there are kids under the age of 18 who are gang members. Of course I could be missing your point entirely.
The articles from National Review, et. al. treat this like an endemic problem and use a scary AP photo to make this into a bigger issue.

Moreover, many of the boys leaving El Salvador are doing so because they don't want to join a gang or remain part of the gang. They're members in name only and did so out of fear that if they didn't join, they would be murdered.

ORR has facilities specifically for "unaccompanied alien children" with known criminal activity and they are sent to their own facilities within HHS.
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Old Jun 17, 2014, 01:29 PM   #39
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No it’s not. Every single police department around the world is going the same job but they are doing it for different organizations. You cannot seriously lump individuals together just by the job description.


Except the British police have nothing to do with the police departments of any other country so what they refer to themselves as only is meaningful to their department and nowhere else.
Egotistical individuals with an over riding sense of privilege join the police, the job they do attract those characteristics.

You forget that the first original police force in the world were the "peelers", created by Robert Peel, other police forces where then modelled on his design.
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Old Jun 17, 2014, 09:14 PM   #40
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Egotistical individuals with an over riding sense of privilege join the police, the job they do attract those characteristics.
What is the research evidence for this? Or is it just an opinion?
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Old Jun 18, 2014, 12:20 AM   #41
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Egotistical individuals with an over riding sense of privilege join the police, the job they do attract those characteristics.
Irrelevant even if that is true (cite please). Each countries police forces are distinctly separate entities that often times have nothing to do with each other on a functional level.

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You forget that the first original police force in the world were the "peelers", created by Robert Peel, other police forces where then modelled on his design.
Modern police forces maybe, but that again is irrelevant. One areas police department is not linked with another police department outside of having similar goals and objectives - which makes sense since they tend to perform similar functions.

The police departments of various nations (heck even on a state to state level) operate independently and while they often times work together, they are not officially linked or dependent on each other. Just because you are a cop in state A doesn’t necessarily mean anything in state B unless there is a compelling reason to work together. There is overarching club that links all police departments together the way that you analogize. Legally and practically they are separate units.
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Old Jun 18, 2014, 04:55 AM   #42
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Not all cops are bad. It's not often that your see stories about a Sheriff's department boy stopping traffic on a 4 lane road with a turn lane to help a crippled man in a wheel chair make it across and most of the times it's the stories about abuse and harrassment, but it's the same reason you don't see more stories about individuals doing good things for each other rather than bad: sensationalist news sells.
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Old Jun 18, 2014, 05:27 AM   #43
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Obviously most of the readers of this thread haven't really had any involvement with police.

As a teen I was stopped and searched more times than I'd care to count, I've also been assaulted (punched in the back of the head) by a police officer. My mum has been conned out of £250 by guardia civil in spain at gun point, and my gran was driven into the back of by a drunk driver who happened to be an ex police officer, and when she called the police they essentially turned a blind eye to the fact he was drunk. Im making my comments from experience, all of this, yet I've never been convicted or arrested.

Now if you want examples of racism, corruption and abuses of power by police, you wont have to look very hard at all.

Edit: Whilst still not entirely factual, theres a section on this wiki page which suggests similar character traits of those I've suggested

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Police_officer
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Old Jun 18, 2014, 05:50 AM   #44
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Obviously not all the cops are the same.
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