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Old May 4, 2013, 05:35 AM   #26
thekev
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Originally Posted by stchman View Post
The i7 in a rMBP is a quad core vs dual core in the MBA. The rMBP can have 2X as much RAM. Not to mention the rMBP has a 1GB discrete Nvidia card vs HD4000 only for the MBA. If I was to be doing heavy duty high end graphics work, the $600 would not be that big a deal.
Well for the work the OP is doing the difference in gpus is meaningless or near meaningless unless you're dragracing OpenCL based filters. The ram, OpenCL versions supported, and OpenGL version supported by the hardware may affect longevity with future versions of Creative Suite apps, but there's not much of a performance bottleneck there. If I'm unaware of a driver issue specific to intel there, that would be different.

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The integrated graphic cards have improved considerably the last few years - the MBA 2012 is actually faster than the MBP 2009/2010 with discrete graphic cards. But like I said before a discrete graphic card would help a lot if you are doing a lot of rendering in your type of work.
Do you mean OpenGL based rendering like 3d viewports? Most offline renderers with a few exceptions remain fully cpu based. Saying rendering is just way too broad.
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Old May 4, 2013, 06:15 AM   #27
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Originally Posted by thekev View Post
Well for the work the OP is doing the difference in gpus is meaningless or near meaningless unless you're dragracing OpenCL based filters. The ram, OpenCL versions supported, and OpenGL version supported by the hardware may affect longevity with future versions of Creative Suite apps, but there's not much of a performance bottleneck there. If I'm unaware of a driver issue specific to intel there, that would be different.



Do you mean OpenGL based rendering like 3d viewports? Most offline renderers with a few exceptions remain fully cpu based. Saying rendering is just way too broad.
You're right

I was talking about the graphics card in the rMBP and latest MBPs. it will help a lot when rendering in After Effects and taking advantage og the mecury engine. If not supported the cpu will be used.
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Old May 4, 2013, 06:49 AM   #28
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You're right

I was talking about the graphics card in the rMBP and latest MBPs. it will help a lot when rendering in After Effects and taking advantage og the mecury engine. If not supported the cpu will be used.
After Effects is one of the exceptions, but the OP never mentioned it. Intel graphics are still supported outside of the raytracer in many of the OpenGL functions. As for the raytracer, I am not surprised they went with CUDA there.
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Old May 4, 2013, 06:54 AM   #29
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Yeah, for regular graphic design in Photoshop and Illustrator the MBA will be fine and just as good as the rMBP. That's what I'm trying to say...
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Old May 4, 2013, 08:24 PM   #30
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I just purchased a 13" MacBook Air and will be using it as a secondary machine when on the go.

I upgraaded the RAM to 8GB (and as mentioned in one of the early replies, I'd go for 16 if it was available), and went for the 128GB option (external storage is so affordable these days...wasn't going to spend more $ to double the internal storage).

I have CS6 on here, and run FCPx and have yet to run into any lag problems.

I would absolutely recommend the MBA for graphics - for those commenting about going for the MBPr and such, I definitely don't see the justification for the $ involved, unless you're going to be showing the screen to clients who need to see that you have the latest, greatest gear.
Nothing wrong with that, but personally I'd save the pennies (dimes, dollars...whatever ).

This is a fantastic, powerful machine, and still runs circles around anything from even just a couple years ago...blows my mind that people complain about the amazing technology that we have at our fingertips every day.
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Old May 5, 2013, 03:53 AM   #31
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Originally Posted by KimHansenDK View Post
Yeah, for regular graphic design in Photoshop and Illustrator the MBA will be fine and just as good as the rMBP. That's what I'm trying to say...
I completely agree with you. People often put too much emphasis on application benchmarks like this. Taken in context, those benchmarks don't mean very much. Most people will not lose much time to those functions. They're rewritten for OpenCL because they run faster that way, and OpenCL support is even showing up in IGPs. It's just a goal of making every part of each program run in real time. Autodesk and Adobe have tested both the intel HD 3000 and 4000 with certain applications where they weren't willing to officially support any of the older intel graphics.

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I would absolutely recommend the MBA for graphics - for those commenting about going for the MBPr and such, I definitely don't see the justification for the $ involved, unless you're going to be showing the screen to clients who need to see that you have the latest, greatest gear.

I think the screen is a much nicer feature than the gpu, but external displays still look better than either. They just aren't very portable.
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Old May 5, 2013, 03:13 PM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KimHansenDK View Post
High end graphic design is also web design as well as ui/app/icon/logo/illustrations etc. The MBA can handle of of this with no problem at all. If we are to keep it to portables only - and not take into account that you can hook it up to an external display, the retina display of the rMBP is not ideal for regular graphic design in 72 dpi.

Like I said. For video editing, 3D and motion design where you need rendering, the quad core processor and the discrete graphic card will help a lot. But for graphic design (2D) the MBA will do just as good as the (r)MBP.

It seems like you don't actually know what you are talking about. I on the other hand speak of experience - I do this for a living and have tried both machines. And I will certainly call my work high-end when the clients pay a lot of money for the work that I do.

End of discussion!

For the OP: Get the MBA 2012 with 8GB ram and 256 GB SSD and you will be fine
So a dual core i5 processor will do "just as good" as a quad core i7? Seems like you know absolutely nothing about processor architecture.

Somehow I knew that you were going to try the "I know what I am talking about and you don't BS".

A friend of mine works for a graphics design company, and shockingly the employees do not all use MBAs. They use a lot of Macs and high end Windows machines.
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Old May 5, 2013, 04:08 PM   #33
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So a dual core i5 processor will do "just as good" as a quad core i7? Seems like you know absolutely nothing about processor architecture.

Somehow I knew that you were going to try the "I know what I am talking about and you don't BS".

A friend of mine works for a graphics design company, and shockingly the employees do not all use MBAs. They use a lot of Macs and high end Windows machines.
Congratulations...a friend of mine...bla bla bla!

But how will you benefit from the quad core processor when using photoshop for web/app/ui?

And how do I not know what I am talking about? I do this for a living and have tried both machines. I'm not saying the MBA is a better machine. All I'm saying is that it does the job just fine when working with regular graphic design. A lot of the coworkers at the design studio uses a MBP and a display - at the studio I use a 27" iMac. But working at home I use a MBA i7/8GB and a Thunderbolt display. And for the work that I do (web/app/campaigns etc) I do not notice any real difference.

Is that so hard to understand???

Edit: I'm out. No point in discussing this any further...

Last edited by KimHansenDK; May 5, 2013 at 04:59 PM.
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Old May 5, 2013, 09:11 PM   #34
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Originally Posted by KimHansenDK View Post
Congratulations...a friend of mine...bla bla bla!

But how will you benefit from the quad core processor when using photoshop for web/app/ui?

And how do I not know what I am talking about? I do this for a living and have tried both machines. I'm not saying the MBA is a better machine. All I'm saying is that it does the job just fine when working with regular graphic design. A lot of the coworkers at the design studio uses a MBP and a display - at the studio I use a 27" iMac. But working at home I use a MBA i7/8GB and a Thunderbolt display. And for the work that I do (web/app/campaigns etc) I do not notice any real difference.

Is that so hard to understand???

Edit: I'm out. No point in discussing this any further...
All I'm saying is the rMBP will do the job better than the MBA.

I went and looked at some of your "websites", very imaginative using the same look over and over and over again.
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Old May 5, 2013, 09:30 PM   #35
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All I'm saying is the rMBP will do the job better than the MBA.

I went and looked at some of your "websites", very imaginative using the same look over and over and over again.
You are really becoming quite ugly with your conversation. Whats the matter, can't stand someone having a different opinion other than your own lofty one? So now you resort to personal attacks on someone's work? Bravo, you are a piece of work.

Let me guess, you are some technical or science-degreed individual who focuses on specifications all day and lives in a black and white world. You always have to be right and just can't believe that someone's real life experience trumps your own extensive knowledge of computer architecture. Just because the rMBP is better spec'd than a MBA doesn't mean you can't do graphic work on it. Newsflash - not everyone needs the top of the line to do work. Guess what - I do plenty of graphics and video work on a 5 year old iMac - the horror.

Have fun beating your drum to no one except yourself. This thread has turned south thanks to you...
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Old May 6, 2013, 02:33 AM   #36
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For example, a task that takes 5 hours to do on a MBA, might take 1.5 hours on a rMBP
I don't think you're using the term "for example" correctly. What kind of task are you talking about? I've been using a 2011 mb air for the past year and a half, and even for the most intensive programs (maya, 3d studio max) I never find that I what I'm doing could be done any faster on a rMBP.
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Old May 6, 2013, 02:51 AM   #37
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Originally Posted by stchman View Post
All I'm saying is the rMBP will do the job better than the MBA.

I went and looked at some of your "websites", very imaginative using the same look over and over and over again.
If budget is elastic and the OP could afford the 15" rmbp on a 3 year replacement cycle at their current billing rates, I would say the screen makes it a compelling option. You just haven't added any real detail. The 5 vs 1.5 hour example is irrelevant here as there's nothing that would drag the mba down that long. Stop looking at things like barefeats comparing excessive filter application times.

Quote:
Originally Posted by stchman View Post
So a dual core i5 processor will do "just as good" as a quad core i7? Seems like you know absolutely nothing about processor architecture.

Somehow I knew that you were going to try the "I know what I am talking about and you don't BS".

A friend of mine works for a graphics design company, and shockingly the employees do not all use MBAs. They use a lot of Macs and high end Windows machines.
The OP was talking primarily about graphic design probably in the sense of layouts, tech packs, and logos. Assuming print and web, probably a combination of CMYK and RGB. I assumed some combination of vector and raster layers. If this involved motion graphics, any amount of offline rendering (cpu intensive, not gpu based), or any heavy color grading work, I would completely avoid the Air. Where do you think it would slow down under the proposed workload? I can tell you much of creative suite hasn't become much more cpu intensive in years. I would say the nicest features with the rMBP are the 16GB ram option and the display. Why worry whether Apple markets the Air as a design machine?

As for your friend, what kind of design do they do? Your assertion is way too broad. Graphic design covers a lot of things. Motion graphics are part of graphic design, and Cinema 4D can take advantage of a lot more power than illustrator. Dealing with large print comps also takes more power. It's not uncommon to see 30MP images with many used in the creation of a final layout including 100 or more layers saved not including text and graphics. Just saying graphic design doesn't tell me anything about the requirements of the OP or that firm.
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Old May 6, 2013, 04:17 AM   #38
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Originally Posted by stchman View Post
All I'm saying is the rMBP will do the job better than the MBA.

I went and looked at some of your "websites", very imaginative using the same look over and over and over again.
Never mind!

Last edited by KimHansenDK; May 7, 2013 at 12:59 AM.
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Old May 6, 2013, 03:16 PM   #39
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Originally Posted by schopaia View Post
I don't think you're using the term "for example" correctly. What kind of task are you talking about? I've been using a 2011 mb air for the past year and a half, and even for the most intensive programs (maya, 3d studio max) I never find that I what I'm doing could be done any faster on a rMBP.
Apple needs to stop selling rMBPs, Mac Pros, etc. and just sell nothing but MBAs if they are just as fast.
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Old May 6, 2013, 03:37 PM   #40
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This junk has gone on long enough.

To the OP:
Buy the best you can afford.

I'm done.
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Old May 11, 2013, 01:44 PM   #41
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I don't think I've ever heard that said in 35 years of programming.

If any of the programmers I've known spent their day in Photoshop all day; I'd not only fire them, I'd blacklist them.
Really, so when for example a designer finishes a project, gets the design approved and sends it to your programmers, they do what exactly? not open it and guess what the designer designed? im very confused by this statement. We do a lot of iphone apps plus backend web development which all use tons of graphics, so i dont know how I am suppose to avoid being in photoshop? care to show me the light?
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