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Old Jan 21, 2013, 10:42 PM   #251
MorphingDragon
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MuddyPaws1 View Post
None of which is illegal.
Suing is not about legality - they are CIVIL suits of course.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MuddyPaws1 View Post
You really going to compare NZ to the US when the US has like 70 times the population? There are more sheep than people in NZ. We have states with more square miles than NZ. The state of Michigan has more people in it than the whole country of NZ.

So excuse me if I don't see your argument as a valid comparison.

But....From http://www.3news.co.nz
Just because we have less people doesn't mean that our social endeavors can't be used as case studies for other countries. In fact, New Zealand is a great country to perform studies here, we are a small western nation with high rates of information assimilation. Corporations have been doing just that for years, trialing products long before they reached the US to see if it could be effective. Your government even trials laws here such as the Skynet Law.

Statistics is all about maximizing information with as little as population as possible, and gun control has been a long experimented with topic here.

Though if you do want to make terrible comparisons, the death rate with Guns in the US is ~10% (OAS2012) while New Zealand is below 5% (2.5% actual) (Krug).

Quote:
Originally Posted by MuddyPaws1 View Post

Oh, and your 1990 killing was done with a .22 rifle. Not a hand gun. Not an assault weapon.
If you even had a decent look at the article you'll see that a .223 Norinco Type 84s assault rifle was used, along with .22 rifles, air guns and arson guns.

Which by the way look like this -


You may know them as "Hollywood AK-47s"

Regardless of the type, they are all equally regulated here with 2 exceptions. The only guns that are outright banned are MSSAs and some types of Air Rifles may be used if you're over 18 and on private property without a license.

Last edited by MorphingDragon; Jan 21, 2013 at 11:11 PM.
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Old Jan 21, 2013, 10:57 PM   #252
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Originally Posted by MuddyPaws1 View Post
Anyone that knows anything about guns knows that a shot gun can unleash a crap ton of destruction in a short amount of time. It's why people use them for home defense. No training. With little aiming and some buck shot you can cut down a tree with one in short order. You would be there for a long time with a .223 assault rifle.



.223 tree choppin' stunt Hardly

And that "gun" is surely illegal for public use.. For sure
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Old Jan 21, 2013, 11:26 PM   #253
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Originally Posted by MorphingDragon View Post

If you even had a decent look at the article you'll see that a .223 Norinco Type 84s assault rifle was used, along with .22 rifles, air guns and arson guns.
And most of the deaths were caused by this...



Scary looking gun isn't it?

The picture you posted....ahh they way we can twist things to suit the argument. Not all 84s's have to look like that. I know you post it for the shock effect with the big scary magazine and all. I am surprised you didn't link one that had the bayonet and grenade launcher also.



Why do you feel the need to even have a voice here? It's not your country. It's pointless.
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Old Jan 22, 2013, 12:07 AM   #254
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I'll leave you with these thoughts, then I will be done with this thread.

Let's also remember that In 1999, the Columbine High School massacre occurred. This was 5 years into the federal assault weapons ban. One of the perpetrators, Eric Harris, was not deterred by the 10 round limitation on magazine capacity. He simply reloaded 13 times.

From a Department of Justice report right after the assault weapons ban expired and was not renewed....

Quote:
Should it be renewed, the ban's effects on gun violence are likely to be small at best and perhaps too small for reliable measurement. [Assault weapons] were rarely used in gun crimes even before the ban.


Regarding large capacity magazines, the study said:

Quote:
It is not clear how often the outcomes of gun attacks depend on the ability of offenders to fire more than ten shots (the current magazine capacity limit) without reloading.
At Virginia Tech in 2007, Seung-Hui Cho again showed the futility of regulating magazine capacity when he carried nineteen ten and fifteen round magazines in his backpack as part of a carefully planned massacre. He fired approximately 170 rounds....from a scary assault weapon? NO From a .22 handgun and a 9mm handgun.

It is estimated that at least 3.3 million scary AR-15 rifles were sold in the United States between 1986 and 2009. 3.3 MILLION. How many have been used in mass killings?

According to Senator Feinstein....remember she is the author of the original AWB and is currently seeking to introduce a new one...assault weapons have been used in 385 murders since the AWB expired in 2004, or about 48 murders per year. There were 8,583 total murders with guns in the United States in 2011, meaning assault weapons were used 0.6% of the time.

FBI data shows that 323 murders were committed with rifles of any kind in 2011. In comparison, 496 murders were committed with hammers and clubs, and 1,694 murders were perpetrated with knives.

Sources...
http://www.fbi.gov
http://wwwnytimes.com
http://www.sas.upenn.edu/jerrylee/re..._final2004.pdf



I also want to be clear....I have said several times I am in support of stricter or more through background checks for gun owners as long as they are done in a timely manor. But banning guns because of their looks, their cosmetic features, how scary they look or that they can carry more than 10 rounds by purchasing a magazine with a larger capacity is misguided.

Education is the key, not banning everything.
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Old Jan 22, 2013, 12:08 AM   #255
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MuddyPaws1 View Post
And most of the deaths were caused by this...

Image

Scary looking gun isn't it?

The picture you posted....ahh they way we can twist things to suit the argument. Not all 84s's have to look like that. I know you post it for the shock effect with the big scary magazine and all. I am surprised you didn't link one that had the bayonet and grenade launcher also.

Image

Why do you feel the need to even have a voice here? It's not your country. It's pointless.
OMG that hand guard and collapsible stock are SO scary! And it's.... Black! Nightmares for the rest of my life...




/sarcasm
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Old Jan 22, 2013, 01:37 AM   #256
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None of which is illegal.
Apparently I wasn't clear. Typically burglars would prefer not to hit a target where the residents are home at the time. The person with the sign isn't inviting burglars to the home of his neighbor. He is inviting more idiots like himself to harass the neighbor. I never claimed that was illegal. I claimed the one with the sign was an imbecile and arguably a bad neighbor. Fred Rogers must be rolling in his grave.

I should include that was hypothetical. It assumes that this is a real photo and not someone trolling.
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Old Jan 22, 2013, 02:26 AM   #257
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MuddyPaws1 View Post
And most of the deaths were caused by this...

Image

Scary looking gun isn't it?

The picture you posted....ahh they way we can twist things to suit the argument. Not all 84s's have to look like that. I know you post it for the shock effect with the big scary magazine and all. I am surprised you didn't link one that had the bayonet and grenade launcher also.

Image
We were not talking about what the guns look like but what guns were used. That's not a Type 84s... Try to stay on track, it just makes you look bad.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MuddyPaws1 View Post
Why do you feel the need to even have a voice here? It's not your country. It's pointless.
What? Can't come up with a good enough argument so you pull out the "You're not in the US" card?

I'm sorry to tell you mate, the reasons are threefold so pick one that butters your crumpet.

A) This is an internet forum that services an international community.
B) America is still the economic capital of the world so what happens is everyone's business.
C) America is one of the few places I could possibly work and it is somewhat useful to keep up with current events.

If you need a "safe male place" to discuss gun wanking techniques then you've picked the wrong place.

Last edited by MorphingDragon; Jan 22, 2013 at 02:33 AM.
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Old Jan 22, 2013, 08:12 AM   #258
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I love this

Image
And yet, when a list of registered gun owners was published, gun people were up in arms about invasion of privacy.

So, since you like the photo, I assume you support the listing of gun owners? That's very thoughtful of you!
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Old Jan 22, 2013, 05:31 PM   #259
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I have to disagree, questioning about gun ownership has always been a part of the training, especially if you have kids or look to be mentally distressed when you come in. This helps understand the patient mental situation better so as to take action before a crisis and something bad happens to themselves or other people around the gun owner. Just because you own a gun an m.d. won't call you crazy and call the cops to take your guns Just like all other more personal questions, asking about guns at home should be a non-issue.
and again my response to that is that a person is either a danger to themselves/others, or is NOT a danger to themselves/others...gun ownership is irrelevant as there are MANY ways of causing injury, and asking the question can lead to conscious or sub-conscious bias on the part of the physician.
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Old Jan 22, 2013, 08:32 PM   #260
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and again my response to that is that a person is either a danger to themselves/others, or is NOT a danger to themselves/others...gun ownership is irrelevant as there are MANY ways of causing injury, and asking the question can lead to conscious or sub-conscious bias on the part of the physician.
lol, bias by the physician for asking about guns at home I'm sorry, but you know nothing of the medical field or how to manage patients based on your response.
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Old Jan 23, 2013, 01:15 AM   #261
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I was just reminded of a quote that seems very relevant to this topic:

"No organic law can ever be framed with a provision specifically applicable to every question which may occur in practical administration. No foresight can anticipate nor any document of reasonable length contain express provisions for all possible questions."
~ Abraham Lincoln
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Old Jan 23, 2013, 03:18 AM   #262
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I was just reminded of a quote that seems very relevant to this topic:

"No organic law can ever be framed with a provision specifically applicable to every question which may occur in practical administration. No foresight can anticipate nor any document of reasonable length contain express provisions for all possible questions."
~ Abraham Lincoln
But but but, the second amendment is absolute.
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Old Jan 23, 2013, 04:52 AM   #263
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lol, bias by the physician for asking about guns at home I'm sorry, but you know nothing of the medical field or how to manage patients based on your response.
right....because we all know health care providers are always able to set their subjectivity aside 100% of the time.

In any case, I don't go to my doctor to be questioned about gun ownership, if I wear a seatbelt, or if I look both ways before crossing the street.
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Old Jan 23, 2013, 12:46 PM   #264
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I was just reminded of a quote that seems very relevant to this topic:

"No organic law can ever be framed with a provision specifically applicable to every question which may occur in practical administration. No foresight can anticipate nor any document of reasonable length contain express provisions for all possible questions."
~ Abraham Lincoln
I wish someone could have pimpslapped this quote upside the head of the CEO of the NRA after his soapboxing this morning...

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/s...ryId=170031882

Quote:
NRA executive vice president Wayne LaPierre told a Weatherby Foundation awards ceremony that the Second Amendment gives Americans the unfettered right to own a firearm, but the president wants to redefine that freedom.

"Absolutes do exist, words do have specific meaning in language and in law," he said.

The president wants Americans to believe that "putting the federal government in the middle of every gun transaction" will make them safer, LaPierre said. But the NRA believes people have the right to defend themselves and their families with semi-automatic firearms technology, he said.

"No government gave them to us and no government can take them away."
Lincoln would have firmly stuck his boot up this guys backside... sideways.

BL.
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Old Jan 23, 2013, 01:10 PM   #265
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Lincoln would have firmly stuck his boot up this guys backside... sideways.
BL.
Is that before or after he locked him up and stripped him of his right to due process?
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Old Jan 23, 2013, 01:25 PM   #266
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Is that before or after he locked him up and stripped him of his right to due process?
Neither.

The fact is that the very President that the Republican Party is praising that they are the "party of" is clearly contradicting the statement LaPierre had made. If the forefather of their party is saying this, what is LaPierre going to say? Lincoln is wrong? In short, Lincoln undermined this guy's political stance as far as the 2nd goes.

BL.
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Old Jan 24, 2013, 05:27 PM   #267
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And yet, when a list of registered gun owners was published, gun people were up in arms about invasion of privacy.

So, since you like the photo, I assume you support the listing of gun owners? That's very thoughtful of you!
I would have no problem with my neighbor putting a sign in his front yard saying I have guns.

NONE

Yes I have guns. Many of them. Also have several bows. And a few knives. And a woodchipper.
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