Weight loss and muscle building?

mobilehaathi said:

Leave the science to scientists.

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Yeah, coz they're doing such a great job at solving the west's ever-increasing health problems, aren't they? It's funny how we have more health problems & complications than ever before, yet we have more technology and (supposedly) know more about health than ever before too...

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boss.king said:

Fat is more likely to clog inside you. I think you misunderstand the way the digestive system functions.

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I know people who have been eating a diet mainly consisting of saturated fat for much longer than I have - Many years, in fact. They're all perfectly fine and healthy. One lady even had an artery scan, and there was ZERO plaque build up in her arteries - They were squeaky clean

(sorry if you're talking about intestines btw, but the place where most people think fat clogs is in your arteries, so yeah)

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boss.king said:

Either you're unwittingly eating fibre, or you're a scientific anomaly.

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...Or maybe fat can shift stuff through your body just as well (or possibly even better) as fibre can? I'm trying to think, but I don't think I'm eating any fibre... Or if I am, a very small amount. And during some stages in the past 6 months I've been eating ONLY meat & dairy products (to see what would happen ) and my regularity actually improved slightly ...Not to mention I felt better, didn't feel groggy in the morning and my teeth stayed squeaky clean without brushing them...

mrsir2009 said:

Yeah, coz they're doing such a great job at solving the west's ever-increasing health problems, aren't they? It's funny how we have more health problems & complications than ever before, yet we have more technology and (supposedly) know more about health than ever before too...

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Society has such health problems because it eats too much fat.

You're 16 and obviously have clue about nutrition and muscle building/fat burning in the body. Why are you even posting in this thread ? Stop polluting the thread, you've ruined it enough as it is.

If the subject doesn't interest you, move on to something else and let people that are interested in the topic discuss it intelligently.

(BTW, you eat carbs/fiber everyday. What do you think vegetables and fruits are made of ? Or do you also not eat those ? Vitamin deficiency anyone ?).

KnightWRX said:

Society has such health problems because it eats too much fat.

You're 16 and obviously have clue about nutrition and muscle building/fat burning in the body. Why are you even posting in this thread ? Stop polluting the thread, you've ruined it enough as it is.

If the subject doesn't interest you, move on to something else and let people that are interested in the topic discuss it intelligently.

(BTW, you eat carbs/fiber everyday. What do you think vegetables and fruits are made of ? Or do you also not eat those ? Vitamin deficiency anyone ?).

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Fair enough - I'll go. I'll just say one last thing first: If western society has so many health problems because the people in it eat too much fat, then what about the Eskimos? They're known to have an almost non-existant rate of cancer, heart disease, etc... And what do they eat? They're certainly not growing veges, fruit, corn and stuff in the ice and snow, are they? They eat seal blubber. And what is seal blubber? Saturated Fat. So how come they aren't dropping dead with heart attacks? And why aren't they dying of scurvy form having no fruit or veges? Answer me that one.

And back in the west: Are people REALLY eating more fat? What about in the 1960s and before when people cooked with lard, baked with real butter, drank full CREAM milk, etc etc... Now people use margarine, olive oil, skim milk... And that's helping, isn't it?

And no, by the way, I don't eat fruit or veges. And no, I'm not suffering vitamin deficiency, because I get all the vitamins I need from meat and dairy

Ok, I'm done now

mrsir2009 said:

Ok, I'm done now

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Thank god, because I don't know how much more polluting you could do.

I.f.

What I've been doing for the past 3 months is intermittent fasting. I'm 6' and I weighed 334, i now weigh 308 as of yesterday. I've been cycling, running, various cardio stuffs, and lifing weights. I eat my food within a 5-6 hour eating window from 12-5 or so and then don't eat till the next day at around 12. If you have some events that are going to happen after 5, then move your window around. I.F. hasn't interfered with hanging out so far.

As far as diet, I've been eating more vegetables and fruits, more whole grains like brown rice and chicken and turkey based products. No fast food, no cokes (not even diet or light versions) and that's really the crap that drags you down. and of course I have a cheat day every now and then.

I mainly did this to show my self that I don't need to freakin eat all the damn time. So far I've had really great results, im rarely hungry during fast and I feel great all around. I'm going to to the MS150 here from Houston to Austin in April and I'm going to make it happen.

To the OP, you gotta just do it man and make it happen, no one else is going to do it for you.

UHFrank said:

What I've been doing for the past 3 months is intermittent fasting. I'm 6' and I weighed 334, i now weigh 308 as of yesterday. I've been cycling, running, various cardio stuffs, and lifing weights. I eat my food within a 5-6 hour eating window from 12-5 or so and then don't eat till the next day at around 12. If you have some events that are going to happen after 5, then move your window around. I.F. hasn't interfered with hanging out so far.

As far as diet, I've been eating more vegetables and fruits, more whole grains like brown rice and chicken and turkey based products. No fast food, no cokes (not even diet or light versions) and that's really the crap that drags you down. and of course I have a cheat day every now and then.

I mainly did this to show my self that I don't need to freakin eat all the damn time. So far I've had really great results, im rarely hungry during fast and I feel great all around. I'm going to to the MS150 here from Houston to Austin in April and I'm going to make it happen.

To the OP, you gotta just do it man and make it happen, no one else is going to do it for you.

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That's not a good idea. You should be eating sporadically throughout the day. You've seen weight loss because your body is starving during those other periods. You should eat 4-6 small meals per day, breakfast being the biggest. What you have been eating though, is a good start!

KnightWRX said:

Thank god, because I don't know how much more polluting you could do.

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Agreed.

Frankly, it's an outrageous claim, flying in the face of biology.

I suggest the author of those posts actually do some research on how these fats work, and how dietary fibers work, pefore spouting off this nonsense about fat being slick and greasy and just sliding through your arteries. If it was intended to be comical, well, it made me actually laugh out loud.

I'm not going to bother going to greath lengths to disprove this notion on account of how silly it is, but if you're borderline considering those posts as serious, I suggest you take a look here.

Dietary fiber, also known as roughage or bulk, includes all parts of plant foods that your body can't digest or absorb. Unlike other food components, such as fats, proteins or carbohydrates — which your body breaks down and absorbs — fiber isn't digested by your body. Instead, it passes relatively intact through your stomach, small intestine, colon and out of your body.

Fiber is commonly classified as soluble (it dissolves in water) or insoluble (it doesn't dissolve):

Soluble fiber. This type of fiber dissolves in water to form a gel-like material. It can help lower blood cholesterol and glucose levels. Soluble fiber is found in oats, peas, beans, apples, citrus fruits, carrots, barley and psyllium.

Insoluble fiber. This type of fiber promotes the movement of material through your digestive system and increases stool bulk, so it can be of benefit to those who struggle with constipation or irregular stools. Whole-wheat flour, wheat bran, nuts, beans and vegetables, such as cauliflower, green beans and potatoes, are good sources of insoluble fiber.Most plant-based foods, such as oatmeal and beans, contain both soluble and insoluble fiber. However, the amount of each type varies in different plant foods. To receive the greatest health benefit, eat a wide variety of high-fiber foods.

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The two main types of potentially harmful dietary fat:

Saturated fat. This is a type of fat that comes mainly from animal sources of food. Saturated fat raises total blood cholesterol levels and low-density lipoprotein (LDL) cholesterol levels, which can increase your risk of cardiovascular disease. Saturated fat may also increase your risk of type 2 diabetes.

Trans fat. This is a type of fat that occurs naturally in some foods, especially foods from animals. But most trans fats are made during food processing through partial hydrogenation of unsaturated fats. This process creates fats that are easier to cook with and less likely to spoil than are naturally occurring oils. These trans fats are called industrial or synthetic trans fats. Research studies show that synthetic trans fat can increase unhealthy LDL cholesterol and lower healthy high-density lipoprotein (HDL) cholesterol. This can increase your risk of cardiovascular disease.Most fats that have a high percentage of saturated fat or trans fat are solid at room temperature. Because of this, they're typically referred to as solid fats. They include beef fat, pork fat, shortening, stick margarine and butter.

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These you should embrace:

Monounsaturated fat. This is a type of fat found in a variety of foods and oils. Studies show that eating foods rich in monounsaturated fats (MUFAs) improves blood cholesterol levels, which can decrease your risk of heart disease. Research also shows that MUFAs may benefit insulin levels and blood sugar control, which can be especially helpful if you have type 2 diabetes.

Polyunsaturated fat. This is a type of fat found mostly in plant-based foods and oils. Evidence shows that eating foods rich in polyunsaturated fats (PUFAs) improves blood cholesterol levels, which can decrease your risk of heart disease. PUFAs may also help decrease the risk of type 2 diabetes. One type of polyunsaturated fat, omega-3 fatty acids, may be especially beneficial to your heart. Omega-3s, found in some types of fatty fish, appear to decrease the risk of coronary artery disease. They may also protect against irregular heartbeats and help lower blood pressure levels.

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Eating monounsaturated and polyunsaturated fats are great for you, you'll find them in heavy doses in foods such as peanut butter.

Eating saturated fats is bad for you. You'll find them in heavy doses in Big Macs.

Think about this for 2 seconds and it's quite clear by demographic which food choice is healthier for you.

Those "slick and greasy" saturated and trans fats? Yeah they become solid and stop passing through your body when you ingest them.

mrsir2009 said:

Yeah, coz they're doing such a great job at solving the west's ever-increasing health problems, aren't they? It's funny how we have more health problems & complications than ever before, yet we have more technology and (supposedly) know more about health than ever before too...

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A skeptical and inquisitive mind is valuable in this world, but for the love of god educate yourself. You can't just make it up as you go. Your premises are naive and your conclusions flawed, but I do sense a flicker of intelligence buried somewhere underneath your posts.

KnightWRX said:

Society has such health problems because it eats too much fat.

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This is wrong and it all came from Ancel Keys 7 Countries Study in the 70's, which was wrong. Because of that study, the American Heart Association and the USDA revised the food pyramid with the goal of cutting fat intake by 10%. They succeeded - American fat consumption dropped from 40% to 30% but instead of getting healthier, American obesity skyrocketed along with inflammation related disorders.

eric/ said:

I suggest the author of those posts actually do some research on how these fats work, and how dietary fibers work, pefore spouting off this nonsense about fat being slick and greasy and just sliding through your arteries. If it was intended to be comical, well, it made me actually laugh out loud.

I'm not going to bother going to greath lengths to disprove this notion on account of how silly it is, but if you're borderline considering those posts as serious, I suggest you take a look here.

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Mrsir2009 is confusing a few things - IE fiber vs digestible carbs - but he's on a high fat ketodiet. His body is running off ketones, not glucose so he doesn't need any of the glucose slowing benefits fiber would provide. He should still eat fiber anyway to aid digestion and gut flora and because of the micronutrients found in fiber rich foods. But he has no need to flatline his insulin response like people on carb diets. Somebody on a ketodiet already has a flat insulin response because fat doesn't trigger insulin and is naturally slow to digest.

Eating monounsaturated and polyunsaturated fats are great for you, you'll find them in heavy doses in foods such as peanut butter.

Eating saturated fats is bad for you. You'll find them in heavy doses in Big Macs.

Think about this for 2 seconds and it's quite clear by demographic which food choice is healthier for you.

Those "slick and greasy" saturated and trans fats? Yeah they become solid and stop passing through your body when you ingest them.

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Saturated fat is fine. See the Ancel Keys myth up top. Or watch the first 20 mins of Robert Lustig's Bitter Truth video on Youtube. There are actually 2 types of LDL's - one is neutral and linked to saturated fat, the other is bad and linked to high triglyceride levels.
Polyunsaturated fat in the form of hydrogenated vegetable oils is bad for you because it's chock full of Omega 6 fatty acids, which cancel out Omega 3's, and cause inflammation.
Monounsaturated is good. Transfat is bad.

*read the link*

Well yeah you need fat, it's good for you, in fact. Even saturated fat in proper amounts. I guess I could have specified, but when I say avoid saturated fat, I mean that as in you're getting enough saturated fat even when avoiding it from various diet sources.

For unsaturated, yes Omega 6 can cancel out Omega 3, and are unhealthy if you consume too much. You want Omega 3 above all else.

Agree? Disagree?

Also, I want to highlight something important here and that is although I don't necessarily believe your link to be incorrect, I do trust the opinion of the established medical field over anything else.

eric/ said:

*read the link*

Well yeah you need fat, it's good for you, in fact. Even saturated fat in proper amounts. I guess I could have specified, but when I say avoid saturated fat, I mean that as in you're getting enough saturated fat even when avoiding it from various diet sources.

For unsaturated, yes Omega 6 can cancel out Omega 3, and are unhealthy if you consume too much. You want Omega 3 above all else.

Agree? Disagree?

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Agree pretty much

The only thing I can think of that's bad with saturated fat is if you eat it with high glyc carbs. Carbs trigger insulin, fat triggers ASP, both insulin and ASP being present at the same time create a positive feedback loop, making you get fatter quicker than if you'd just eaten one or the other. Which is why pizza is so bad for you.

That Omega 6/Omega 3 ratio is critical and is the main reason people pop fish oil pills and buy grass fed meat over CAFO meat. Average person's ratio is 20:1. You bring it close to 2:1 and you significantly lower your potential to develop inflammatory problems like heart disease, colon cancer, etc. One of the biggest sources of Omega 6's is vegetable oils like corn oil, sunflower oil, etc, which is why the whole Polyunsaturated fat is good for you advice is screwing everyone over.

Also, I want to highlight something important here and that is although I don't necessarily believe your link to be incorrect, I do trust the opinion of the established medical field over anything else.

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There are a ton of links out there that mirror that one, as well as books. The general consensus in the last few years is that Ancel Keys was wrong to demonize fat. The biggest knock on the established way of thinking is that the US actually succeeded in getting people to cutback dietary fat by 10% and people ended up getting fatter with more health problems as a result.

Most people still believe fat is bad for you, I believed it until last year until I started reading up on this stuff and tried a ketodiet for the first time.

Liquorpuki said:

This is wrong and it all came from Ancel Keys 7 Countries Study in the 70's, which was wrong.

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You're right of course and I should have been clearer. eric/ pretty much said what I meant :

eric/ said:

Eating monounsaturated and polyunsaturated fats are great for you, you'll find them in heavy doses in foods such as peanut butter.

Eating saturated fats is bad for you. You'll find them in heavy doses in Big Macs.

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People got more and more unhealthy not due to "biologists knowing more and getting it wrong", but because frankly, we've moved away from home cooked meals and fresh ingredients to fast food and pre-processed foods. It's much less filling, and thus you eat a lot of it (too many calories makes you fat) and it is very poor in actual nutrional value (the good stuff like vitamins, healthy fats and carbs, etc..).

Another big unnamed culprit of the decrease in health is sodium. More and more processed foods, which are more and more popular, contain way too much sodium and people eat almost 2 times if not more what they should in a day.

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UHFrank said:

What I've been doing for the past 3 months is intermittent fasting. I'm 6' and I weighed 334, i now weigh 308 as of yesterday. I've been cycling, running, various cardio stuffs, and lifing weights. I eat my food within a 5-6 hour eating window from 12-5 or so and then don't eat till the next day at around 12. If you have some events that are going to happen after 5, then move your window around. I.F. hasn't interfered with hanging out so far.

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Congratualations on the weight loss. It feels good doesn't it ?

But just one point, calories is what makes you gain/lose weight in the end, it doesn't really matter if you eat them in a 5 hour window or normally over 3 meals and 2 snacks during a normal 12-16 hour day.

Yeah I actually try and avoid eating out as much as possible, it's limited to 1-2 times per month, max.

I just feel so terrible after I eat out, hate it.

I actually agree with mrsir2009.

Monounsaturated fat. This is a type of fat found in a variety of foods and oils. Studies show that eating foods rich in monounsaturated fats (MUFAs) improves blood cholesterol levels, which can decrease your risk of heart disease. Research also shows that MUFAs may benefit insulin levels and blood sugar control, which can be especially helpful if you have type 2 diabetes.

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Ok, lets talk about "studies show": Saying "Studies show" is pretty damn vague, isn't it? Who are these "studies" conducted by? Sure, some of them are conducted by the government, but being expensive to execute, most studies are done by FOOD COMPANIES. Now, can you honestly say that food companies have our best health interests at heart, rather than our wallets at heart? Here's an example:

You NEVER heard of saturated fat being bad for you before VEGETABLE OIL came onto the scene. Saturated fat wasn't shown by the "experts" to be bad for you UNTIL vegetable oil was actually on the market. What a coincidence! Vegetable oil is DIRT CHEAP to make, and they make you pay through the nose for high end ones like "Extra virgin olive oil" because "studies show" (even though companies that MAKE vegetable oil more than likely conducted the studies that show sat fat (butter) is bad for you and vegetable oil is good for you) that olive oil is good for you. How can you trust what companies say when they're trying to sell you something?

Monounsaturated fat. This is a type of fat found in a variety of foods and oils. Studies show that eating foods rich in monounsaturated fats (MUFAs) improves blood cholesterol levels, which can decrease your risk of heart disease. Research also shows that MUFAs may benefit insulin levels and blood sugar control, which can be especially helpful if you have type 2 diabetes.

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By this I assume we mean LOWER cholesterol levels? If so... Did you know that your body MAKES 80% of it's cholesterol? Why would your body MAKE something that is BAD for you? Answer: It doesn't. High cholesterol is not BAD in itself. Do you actually know what cholesterol is FOR? Cholesterol is there to REPAIR your body when it's been damaged by something. So trying to LOWER your cholesterol when you've got high cholesterol is BAD. It's basically like killing all the paramedics that are trying to save you. It's ridiculous. When people go on cholesterol lowering meds, does their health ACTUALLY improve? NO! They almost always get SICKER, don't they?

noodlemanc said:

I actually agree with mrsir2009.

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What that Fiber is bad and that Vitamin C&D deficiencies are A-ok ?

KnightWRX said:

that Fiber is bad

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Yes.

KnightWRX said:

that Vitamin C&D deficiencies are A-ok ?

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No - However you DON'T GET vitamin deficiency from not eating fruit and vegetables if you eat lots of dairy & meat saturated fat products. What about the old-age story of the sailors who got scurvy from "not enough fresh fruit and vegetables", you ask? Well, when sailors get scurvy, WHAT ARE THEY EATING? Yes, they are not eating fresh fruit & veges. They're living on bread, crackers and biscuits. So they're not eating any fresh meat or dairy products EITHER, are they? So how do you know that if the sailors had eaten beef and milk instead of oranges and lemons, that they would still be safe from scurvy?

noodlemanc said:

Yes.

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Why would Fiber be bad as explained already numerous times in this thread by others ?

noodlemanc said:

No - However you DON'T GET vitamin deficiency from not eating fruit and vegetables if you eat lots of dairy & meat saturated fat products. What about the old-age story of the sailors who got scurvy from "not enough fresh fruit and vegetables", you ask? Well, when sailors get scurvy, WHAT ARE THEY EATING? Yes, they are not eating fresh fruit & veges. They're living on bread, crackers and biscuits. So they're not eating any fresh meat or dairy products EITHER, are they? So how do you know that if the sailors had eaten beef and milk instead of oranges and lemons, that they would still be safe from scurvy?

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What makes you think vitamins are only about keeping a centuries old disease at bay ? Some vitamins are only found in meat products (B-12), some others only in fruit and vegetables.

Frankly, a balanced diet is the most healthy way to eat, I don't get why people want to mess with it.

I've dropped 40 lbs in the last year through a high (good) fat, high protein with diet with next to no carbs (paleo diet) with a 500 calorie deficit from maintenance. My meal plan was basically a meat and nut breakfast (see Charles Poliquin) along with some form of egg, meat and veg for lunch with some fruit (an apple or something) and then meat and veg (and now a sweet potato or a small amount of brown rice) for dinner.

And I did still have a weekly cheat meal, nothing to drastic, something like a curry (dry meat dish, chipatti, veg side, no rice) or Chinese. It made it easier for me to stick to my 6 day a week diet and also made sure that my body didn't forget how to process other types foods.

And I don't eat 6 meals a day, standard 3 meals a day. Tried 6 and just couldn't handle it so just went back to 3 and it worked for me.

I don't do much cardio, just some sprints (HIIT as previously mentioned in thread) on the tread mill every other weight session or so to get the metabolism going and keep it going even when I am driving home.

The key thing to remember is everyone's body is different. What works for me might not work for you. You need to experiment with your diet and to see what gets you the best results, as remember, diet is 80%, if not 90% of the battle.

I do disagree with a previous poster though, I cut first and am now starting my bulking phase. Good carbs have been re-introduced to fuel muscle growth along with high protein.

I've tracked my statistics very closely. Last BF test was 10.4%. My first test was August last year and that read at 17 - 18%.

MyFitnessPal was invaluable at tracking calories consumed and tracking macro nutrients.

Oh, and no fibre....haha worst advice I've read today.

@noodlemanc: So are you on a high sat-fat no-carb diet too?