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Old Aug 4, 2013, 06:35 PM   #176
.Andy
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Originally Posted by Hawkeye16 View Post
and still the question goes unanswered.
Perhaps nobody is interested in engaging in debate with someone who stoops to fictional child rape for an argument?
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Old Aug 4, 2013, 06:51 PM   #177
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and still the question goes unanswered.
Seriously Hawkeye, what do you expect anyone to say other than, "I'd leap to their defense"?
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Old Aug 5, 2013, 11:46 AM   #178
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and still the question goes unanswered. Maybe one of these apologists andy keeps talking about will appear and answer it...
I said that anything up to the death of the suspect would be legitimate self-defence. What more can I say?
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Old Aug 6, 2013, 08:40 AM   #179
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Seriously Hawkeye, what do you expect anyone to say other than, "I'd leap to their defense"?
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Originally Posted by Eraserhead View Post
I said that anything up to the death of the suspect would be legitimate self-defence. What more can I say?
I expected it from you two as I mentioned before you make good points and do not just name call, deflect, etc.

Andy still did not answer and still deflected to a prior question he thinks is defective so I kind of proved my point. On ignore he goes since he can add no value to anything. Bye Andy!
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Old Aug 7, 2013, 01:39 AM   #180
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Perhaps nobody is interested in engaging in debate with someone who stoops to fictional child rape for an argument?
Are you are saying all underage or statuary rape is fictional or just in his argument?
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Old Aug 7, 2013, 01:53 AM   #181
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Britain most certainly does not want its guns back!

In my 31 years on this earth I have never needed a gun for anything. Guns are not suitable for any family home and the best thing we ever did was remove them from our culture. There is enough of a problem with organised crime gangs getting hold of illegally imported guns, let alone having a society where they are even easier to get hold of. Stick the guns where the sun doesn't shine please lol.
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Old Aug 7, 2013, 04:32 AM   #182
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Britain most certainly does not want its guns back!

In my 31 years on this earth I have never needed a gun for anything. Guns are not suitable for any family home and the best thing we ever did was remove them from our culture. There is enough of a problem with organised crime gangs getting hold of illegally imported guns, let alone having a society where they are even easier to get hold of. Stick the guns where the sun doesn't shine please lol.
So if you admit there is a issue with organized crime gangs getting firearms? Are these gangs only shooting at gun clubs and and using those guns to go hunting with?

I am glad you have never needed one but I am sure those who did need one and didn't have access to one would disagree with you.
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Old Aug 7, 2013, 04:46 AM   #183
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So if you admit there is a issue with organized crime gangs getting firearms? Are these gangs only shooting at gun clubs and and using those guns to go hunting with?

I am glad you have never needed one but I am sure those who did need one and didn't have access to one would disagree with you.
There is a problem with organised crime in any country, guns or not.

Our society does not need guns full stop. You are not going to stop murders by not having guns, I am not that naive, but I also don't think introducing guns would stop every single murder from taking place either. Sure, perhaps some people have been in the situation where they thought they could have done with a gun to defend themselves, but there are plenty of situations where a gun in the equation would have done more harm than good. Our gun crime rate here is extremely low, introducing more guns into circulation just creates a problem we don't currently have.

Are you a British citizen wishing you had a gun?!

PS: Guns are not totally illegal here. You can obtain a shotgun license as long as you pass the tests and identify a need. They don't just hand them out to anybody in suburbia and for a damn good reason.
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Old Aug 7, 2013, 04:59 AM   #184
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There is a problem with organised crime in any country, guns or not.

Our society does not need guns full stop. You are not going to stop murders by not having guns, I am not that naive, but I also don't think introducing guns would stop every single murder from taking place either. Sure, perhaps some people have been in the situation where they thought they could have done with a gun to defend themselves, but there are plenty of situations where a gun in the equation would have done more harm than good. Our gun crime rate here is extremely low, introducing more guns into circulation just creates a problem we don't currently have.

Are you a British citizen wishing you had a gun?!

PS: Guns are not totally illegal here. You can obtain a shotgun license as long as you pass the tests and identify a need. They don't just hand them out to anybody in suburbia and for a damn good reason.
No, I am not a British citizen. However I am pretty sure if my ancestors had the same view of firearms that you do I would be one.
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Old Aug 7, 2013, 05:11 AM   #185
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PS: Guns are not totally illegal here. You can obtain a shotgun license as long as you pass the tests and identify a need. They don't just hand them out to anybody in suburbia and for a damn good reason.
I am not an expert on firearm laws in the U.K. but isn't like break-action shotguns and single shot rifles only and they have to be stored at an approved facility(club or range).
By the letter of the law that might not be "banned" but is scares me that we are headed in that direction if the gun grabber-nuts get their way.

EDIT: However did I meet someone from London last year with lots of money and he claimed to own handguns and a few semi-auto rifles. However I do not know what the legal status of those firearms were.
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Old Aug 7, 2013, 05:18 AM   #186
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I'm sorry if I'm ignorant, but I for one do not want guns in the UK. I don't care about rights, I believe there are some things that need limitation and this is one of them. I know people need self protection but a gun is not the only answer. I'd rather see people investing in better security for their homes then buying a firearm. Percentages of death maybe low in US, but I don't want the loony bins getting hold of a gun and start doing the same stupid actions over here.

(e.g. Dark Knight Rises premier...)
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Old Aug 7, 2013, 05:27 AM   #187
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I'm sorry if I'm ignorant, but I for one do not want guns in the UK. I don't care about rights, I believe there are some things that need limitation and this is one of them. I know people need self protection but a gun is not the only answer. I'd rather see people investing in better security for their homes then buying a firearm. Percentages of death maybe low in US, but I don't want the loony bins getting hold of a gun and start doing the same stupid actions over here.

(e.g. Dark Knight Rises premier...)
Your Country your choice.
Don't get me wrong, I wouldn't want to live in the U.K. with the laws you people have but as far as I can tell you people do not have a right to own firearms and if that is the case then who am I to argue.
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Old Aug 7, 2013, 05:32 AM   #188
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I am not an expert on firearm laws in the U.K. but isn't like break-action shotguns and single shot rifles only and they have to be stored at an approved facility(club or range).
By the letter of the law that might not be "banned" but is scares me that we are headed in that direction if the gun grabber-nuts get their way.

EDIT: However did I meet someone from London last year with lots of money and he claimed to own handguns and a few semi-auto rifles. However I do not know what the legal status of those firearms were.
Funny how a guy so opinionated on gun laws, (especially one that talks about having a big picture) - is so willfully ignorant on gun laws in other jurisdictions.

Riddle us this. How can u be scared of a direction, if you don't know what that direction is?
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Old Aug 7, 2013, 05:35 AM   #189
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Your Country your choice.
Don't get me wrong, I wouldn't want to live in the U.K. with the laws you people have but as far as I can tell you people do not have a right to own firearms and if that is the case then who am I to argue.
I'm not saying US or any country is bad, I did not state I would not live in another country because of their laws. I just think it's a BAD idea to bring guns here, we've managed without them. For any gun euthasists, you can get a gun license.
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Old Aug 7, 2013, 05:39 AM   #190
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Funny how a guy so opinionated on gun laws, (especially one that talks about having a big picture) - is so willfully ignorant on gun laws in other jurisdictions.

Riddle us this. How can u be scared of a direction, if you don't know what that direction is?
First off, tell me how far off I am before you claim that I am ignorant.

You expect me to know all the firearm law ins and outs in other countries that I do not live in?
How much do you know about firearms and laws governing them?
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Old Aug 7, 2013, 05:48 AM   #191
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No, I am not a British citizen. However I am pretty sure if my ancestors had the same view of firearms that you do I would be one.
Well its subjective whether people think that is a bad thing or not lol. I'm pretty happy with my nationality. I don't think we are superior or inferior to any other, but I am happy with our laws. We once had the right to bear arms, but since then our society has evolved into a more civilised place. Our society really isn't dangerous enough to warrant people keeping firearms in their homes for protection. That might be pretty alien to where you are from and I understand that, but you can't really state that we are somehow missing out by not having guns. We simply don't need them.
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However did I meet someone from London last year with lots of money and he claimed to own handguns and a few semi-auto rifles. However I do not know what the legal status of those firearms were.
If this individual has claimed to own the types of weapons you state, they are highly illegal. Unless these firearms are stored in another country. Handgun's were banned after the Dunblane massacre and apart from the police and licensed bodyguards, no citizen is allowed to carry them. The barrel has to be over 30cm long for it to be held legally under license.

----------

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Don't get me wrong, I wouldn't want to live in the U.K. with the laws you people have but as far as I can tell you people do not have a right to own firearms and if that is the case then who am I to argue.
I can't think of a single British law that prevents me from leading a good life. We are not restricted or repressed in any way. Is it just the exclusion of guns that makes you feel you could never live here? If so, I can tell you if you did become a British citizen and lived in the society, you'd soon realise you wouldn't need a gun. I'm positive about that
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Old Aug 7, 2013, 05:49 AM   #192
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First off, tell me how far off I am before you claim that I am ignorant.

You expect me to know firearm laws ins and outs in other countries that I do not live in?
How much do you know about firearms and laws governing them.
If you're an opinionated man, arguing about gun control then:

Yes I do expect you know about gun laws in other countries you do not live in.

I expect you to know the costs of gun wound treatment and stab wound treatment.

I expect you to know the survival rates of gun wounds and stab wounds.

I expect you to know infection rates for gun wounds and stab wounds.

I expect you to know effectiveness of gun and knife amnesties around the world.

I expect you to know the effectiveness of gun control measures in countries around the world.


If you haven't that base amount of information, or have not at least encountered it and understood it in your opinion forming process - then you're a clueless timewaster who is no better than a flag-waving 'Murican who doesn't know the difference between conviction and convection, and thinks that 'guns don't kill people, people do' is actually a form of wisdom.

Best place for someone uninformed is a tea party rally where you can cheer on the 2nd amendment and talk survival tactics. For the time is coming to defend against the tyranny of Osama the Red.

And yes, you are clueless about UK gun laws. I've had guns and a license to use them, for much of my adult life. Guns stored in my family home.
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Old Aug 7, 2013, 06:07 AM   #193
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And yes, you are clueless about UK gun laws. I've had guns and a license to use them, for much of my adult life. Guns stored in my family home.
I am so sorry, I had no idea you could own semi-automatic handguns, semi-automtic rifles in the UK. Thanks for filling in the blanks for me, now I know.
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Old Aug 7, 2013, 06:13 AM   #194
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I am so sorry, I had no idea you could own semi-automatic handguns, semi-automtic rifles were legal in the UK. Thanks for filling in the blanks for me, now I know.
Too many blanks, not enough time.
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Old Aug 7, 2013, 06:15 AM   #195
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I am so sorry, I had no idea you could own semi-automatic handguns, semi-automtic rifles in the UK. Thanks for filling in the blanks for me, now I know.
You can't own semi automatic rifles or handguns in the UK. We tackled that problem and thankfully the only in circulation are illegal versions in the hands of criminals and the man you claimed to know. Personally if anybody had bragged to me about owning illegal firearms, there would have been a call to the police soon afterwards.

I think in recent times Australia took the most drastic steps after the Tasmania shooting. There was opposition from gun enthusiasts which was to be expected, but the gun crime rates since this measure speaks for itself.
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Old Aug 7, 2013, 06:18 AM   #196
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You can't own semi automatic rifles or handguns in the UK. We tackled that problem and thankfully the only in circulation are illegal versions in the hands of criminals and the man you claimed to know. Personally if anybody had bragged to me about owning illegal firearms, there would have been a call to the police soon afterwards.
Thank you, The-Real-Deal82
I understand, I was being sarcastic because niuniu was trying to berate me on being ignorant on U.K. gun laws.
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Old Aug 7, 2013, 06:22 AM   #197
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firearm laws in the U.K. break-action shotguns and single shot rifles only
Wrong.

Quote:
Originally Posted by lostngone
and they have to be stored at an approved facility(club or range).


Wrong.

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Thank you, The-Real-Deal82
I understand, I was being sarcastic because niuniu was trying to berate me on being ignorant on U.K. gun laws.
You are ignorant. That's indisputable. That's why you fall back to being sarcastic.

But I was 'berating' you for asking why you should have knowledge.
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Old Aug 7, 2013, 06:54 AM   #198
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I am not an expert on firearm laws in the U.K. but isn't like break-action shotguns and single shot rifles only and they have to be stored at an approved facility(club or range).
By the letter of the law that might not be "banned" but is scares me that we are headed in that direction if the gun grabber-nuts get their way.

EDIT: However did I meet someone from London last year with lots of money and he claimed to own handguns and a few semi-auto rifles. However I do not know what the legal status of those firearms were.
Not really.

Legally there's two types of firearm here with differing restrictions. Shotguns (smooth bore, over 24" barrel, no more than 3 cartridges) and firearm - (everything else).

Both need to be stored securely - eg. gun safe and adequate home security. (For example displaying on the wall in a rack wouldn't be allowed.)

Shotguns - police need to state a legal reason to deny the issuing of a certificate. (Criminal record etc). Firearms - you really need to prove a need.
Needs include things like deer control, target shooting etc. You really need to join a gun club or be involved in rabbit/fox/deer control etc with permissions to shoot over specific land from the owner.

Self protection is not considered a legitimate use and you will not get a firearm certificate for this.

Handguns since Dunblane have been banned.

There are more guns in use here than you would be led to believe by the media and TV pundits but it's pretty low profile and is generally quite a rural thing.

Edit ----

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You can't own semi automatic rifles or handguns in the UK.
Right about handguns but you can actually own semi automatics here - for example, semi automatic shotguns and semi auto .22 rimfire for rabbits are quite popular. (Magazine capacity in the case of say, a shotgun is limited.)

Last edited by jeremy h; Aug 7, 2013 at 07:16 AM.
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Old Aug 7, 2013, 07:50 AM   #199
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Right about handguns but you can actually own semi automatics here - for example, semi automatic shotguns and semi auto .22 rimfire for rabbits are quite popular. (Magazine capacity in the case of say, a shotgun is limited.)
Thanks, you can tell guns don't interest me in the slightest and I live in a city.
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