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Old Nov 4, 2012, 10:17 PM   #51
MNealBarrett
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ANMA dojo View Post
is there (or have ever been) any accessories you could connect to an i-device that would thus give it GPS function?
Not without jailbreaking.

And, BTW, there are numerous Android apps that allow Android devices to use Bluetooth GPS devices, but I cannot find a single one for iOS without jailbreaking.
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Old Nov 4, 2012, 10:20 PM   #52
bkushner
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On a side note, with a 20$ gps dongle bluetoothed in to a jailbroken ipad you get gps. Why won't Apple allow this? I know there are a couple 100$ gps dongles licensed for this. Why not cheaper?

http://www.gpscentral.ca/products/du...-receiver.html
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Old Nov 4, 2012, 11:17 PM   #53
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Originally Posted by cbronfman View Post
I have the iPad2 with Wifi & cellular and decided to get the mini WIFI only because I rarely use the data with the iPad 2 and decided I'd save the $130. It never occurred to me that the GPS chip was missing. I have Navigon and thought that it might be useful (or cool) to get a mount for the mini and use if for a GPS. Now, this isn't really necessary as that 's what my iPhone 4S does very nicely BUT it's not having the option that bothers me. Now I'm wondering if I should exchange the mini for the cellular version when I get it. Very frustrating.
I made the same mistake when I bought my iPad2 -- I never much used the cellular data (had a Virgin Mobile MiFi with the Walmart $20/1GB PAYG option) so I thought I'd save a buck or two and just get the WiFi model for my iPad2. I probably would not have bought an iPad3 if I hadn't missed the WiFi so much, and certainly not if I know the iPad4 and Mini we coming out so soon after.
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Old Nov 4, 2012, 11:22 PM   #54
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Originally Posted by MNealBarrett View Post
Can't speak for Samsung, but my wifi-only Motorola Xoom DOES have GPS. Real GPS, not A-GPS.
I'm not sure you understand what REAL gps vs a-gps is.

A-GPS is not a competing location based service, it is a method that helps a GPS device get its initial fix or maintain connectivity in weak signal areas.

Without A-GPS it can take a mobile device such as a smart phone 15+ minutes if it has to download The full GPS almanac and ephemeris data from a satellite (limited to 50kbs). A-GPS can distribute that data over cellular networks and even help the mobile device calculate the position based on the data received from visible satellites.
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Old Nov 5, 2012, 12:27 AM   #55
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Apple apparently does the GPS processing on it's baseband processor, which is missing in the Wi-Fi only devices.

Most Android devices do it on the Application (main) processor, which makes it easier to provide GPS services to Wi-Fi tablets.

Why Apple doesn't follow the Android manufacturers' lead is a mystery, but probably profit margins has something to do with it...
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Old Nov 5, 2012, 02:17 AM   #56
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[QUOTE=lilo777;16227083]Here is an answer from the community section of the Apple Store:

Will the new iPad with wi-fi only have a GPS feature?
Asked by Frank H from Oak Park Mar 31, 2012

Answer

1 Answer from the Community
Best Answer
Apple is pretty clear on this in their KB article on iOS 5 location services (KB Article # HT4995):

iOS devices without a cellular connection only use Wi-Fi for Location Services (if a Wi-Fi network is available).

GPS is available on iPhone and iPad Wi-Fi + 3G models.
Answered by Daniel B from Meridian Apr 10, 2012 Flag as inappropriate

---------------------------

And here is an eve more interesting Q&A from the same source:

Does wifi only iPad have gps?
Asked by John L from Woodbury May 12, 2012

Answer
Somewhat.

Apple doesnt integrate GPS on the Wi-Fi only models, but you can still locate yourself and use Location Services only if you are connected through Wi-Fi. The cellular + Wi-Fi models are more precise on GPS as they use cellular signals to pinpoint accuracy of your location.

If you meant GPS as in Car GPS, it will be tough to drive with a Wi-Fi only model as it will keep asking you to join networks every time your out of range. Otherwise, the Cellular+ WiFi can support connection almost wherever you go.
Answered by Ivan P from Woodside Aug 13, 2012

-----------------------------
I still find this very confusing, at no time was I asked to join a network, it just worked.
I am now wondering whether the maps pick up on time, I started the route at the same time we left the home position. Is it possible the dot was moving to a position where I should have been at that particular time although that doesn't account for losing the signal when the map went blurred.
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Old Nov 5, 2012, 02:57 AM   #57
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Count me in as one of those also frustrated by Apple's exclusion of a true GPS option for non-cellular models. I don't have or need a data plan, but GPS would be truly useful to me regardless. Quality standalone GPS devices cost between $100-200 these days. There's no reason a $300-500 device can't have GPS.

I think Apple doesn't include it for two reasons. First, why would Apple offer a potentially cheaper option if so many are going for the more expensive model?

And secondly, I don't think it fits in to their "vision", just like an FM receiver (until recently) didn't fit into their "vision" for portable music, and how broadcast TV doesn't either, as far as Macs go (I often wish I could use my Mac screen to watch off-the-air or cable TV, but I have to pay more for a dongle that will become obsolete before my Mac does, to be able to do that).
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Old Nov 5, 2012, 03:06 AM   #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gamoe View Post
Count me in as one of those also frustrated by Apple's exclusion of a true GPS option for non-cellular models. I don't have or need a data plan, but GPS would be truly useful to me regardless. Quality standalone GPS devices cost between $100-200 these days. There's no reason a $300-500 device can't have GPS.

I think Apple doesn't include it for two reasons. First, why would Apple offer a potentially cheaper option if so many are going for the more expensive model?

And secondly, I don't think it fits in to their "vision", just like an FM receiver (until recently) didn't fit into their "vision" for portable music, and how broadcast TV doesn't either, as far as Macs go (I often wish I could use my Mac screen to watch off-the-air or cable TV, but I have to pay more for a dongle that will become obsolete before my Mac does, to be able to do that).
I think it's related to 2 things:

1. How the first iPad worked. Maybe at that time (2009-ish when the iPad was still under development) the application CPU is not fast enough so Apple just used a baseband+GPS chip to do so. Apple just doesn't want to change it which involves a re-design.

2. In Apple's vision, Wifi iPads are to be used at home and never meant to be brought outside. So if you don't bring it outside, why bother to snap in a GPS chip / antenna etc.? So if you want to take your iPad out for some real use, get the cellular version. If you're fine having it at home, get the wifi version.

It worked until the iPad mini came out - it's so light that everybody wants to take it out as opposed to the big iPad.
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Last edited by haruhiko; Nov 5, 2012 at 03:38 AM.
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Old Nov 5, 2012, 03:26 AM   #59
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haruhiko: I think it may be along those lines, although the iPod touch is meant to be carried outside and it doesn't have GPS either.

BTW, the $150 Samsung Galaxy Player 3.6 has a (real) GPS...
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Old Nov 5, 2012, 08:39 AM   #60
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If you tether onto an iPhone, the iPad will get the location from the iPhone's GPS. How real time this is I'm not sure, I'm about to try it out in this morning's commute.
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Old Nov 5, 2012, 08:54 AM   #61
takeshi74
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Quote:
Originally Posted by laser310 View Post
It can't cost anything to add
Really? How so? Where do you get free GPS receivers that do their own R&D, supply line and integration in manufacturing?

It certainly does cost something but there's no telling "Why?" which is your actual question. As stated earlier, you'd have to ask Apple.

Quote:
Originally Posted by cbronfman View Post
It never occurred to me that the GPS chip was missing.
Never assume. Make your list of needs/wants and ensure that what you're shopping meets those requirements. The specs pages for the iPads indicates which ones have GPS and which ones do not.

Quote:
Originally Posted by lilo777 View Post
I find it very peculiar that Apple would put an obvious lie on their web site. The answer contains this false statement:
The answer contains a lot of mistakes. For example, there's no "somewhat" to it. Either you have a GPS receiver or you do not.

The site relies on community responses and that was probably the best answer at the time. If you'll follow your link you'll see that there's now a different best answer.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Saphire View Post
I have read through this thread which says the wifi only iPads can't use live navigation
That's not what is said in this thread. *What is said is that WiFi only iPads can't use GPS. *There are certainly other methods of determining location but due to their accuracy they're really not suited for in-car navigation.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SporkLover View Post
I'm not sure you understand what REAL gps vs a-gps is.
A lot of people do not. *Many seem to think that aGPS is tower triangulation.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Saphire View Post
I still find this very confusing, at no time was I asked to join a network, it just worked.
I am now wondering whether the maps pick up on time, I started the route at the same time we left the home position. Is it possible the dot was moving to a position where I should have been at that particular time although that doesn't account for losing the signal when the map went blurred.
You don't have to join WiFi networks for WiFi location to work.

As for your other questions, you'll have to clarify as they make no sense to me.

Last edited by takeshi74; Nov 5, 2012 at 09:14 AM.
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Old Nov 5, 2012, 09:31 AM   #62
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Google Android and the Nexus 7 are way ahead of Apple with the built-in GPS chip and supporting apps.

I take my Nexus 7 with me when I take long walks/jogs. I downloaded the Endomondo app that keeps track of my distance, time, and pace. I also know exactly where I am at all times.

I recently took the N7 on a trolley/walking tour of Philly (iPad 3 Wi-Fi stayed at home). I downloaded Google Maps offline for all of the Philly area. It worked great; especially when we walked. We were able to locate a particular restaurant in Chinatown and had no trouble getting back to the trolley pickup locations.

You can use Google Now to track your daily commute. Works great if you travel the same locations on a regular basis. Once a pattern history is established, it gives you traffic alerts before you start your drive to work or home. Does other cool things as well.

So the GPS chip is a big deal. It's great that my N7 has the capability without the expense of a data plan. My poor iPad 3 rarely gets powered on anymore.



BTW - My Nexus 7 GPS is accurate. I'm looking at my location now, and not only does it show me in my house, it shows the exact side of the house I am sitting. My iPad 3 Wi-Fi locator has me located in the next street about 200 yards away.
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Old Nov 5, 2012, 10:37 AM   #63
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Originally Posted by dona83 View Post
If you tether onto an iPhone, the iPad will get the location from the iPhone's GPS. How real time this is I'm not sure, I'm about to try it out in this morning's commute.
I would very much appreciate hearing what you find. As the owner of an original version iPad, I am in the market for an iPad 4. My current iPad is the cellular model and I like to use Google maps to help get around traffic, car accidents, etc. I would, if possible, prefer to save the extra $$$ and get the wifi only model.

If GPS doesn't work with the iPad tethered to an iPhone, then I might get the cellular version. If that's the case, does anyone know if you have to have a cellular data plan activated on the iPad for the GPS to work? Does the GPS work without a cellular data plan on the iPad?

Thanks!
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Old Nov 5, 2012, 10:57 AM   #64
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Can somebody tell me why apple doesn't put a GPS in the iPod Touch, or the non-cellular iPads?

It seems like they are missing a big market segment - people without smart phones that want good mapping and location-based apps.

It can't cost anything to add, and in any case, they would make it back, and more, by selling more location-based apps.
I have not tried this, but what if you used your iPhone as a WiFi Hotspot. Then your iPad GPS App could connect through the WiFi Hotspot. Wouldn't that work?
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Old Nov 5, 2012, 10:58 AM   #65
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Can somebody tell me why apple doesn't put a GPS in the iPod Touch, or the non-cellular iPads?

It seems like they are missing a big market segment - people without smart phones that want good mapping and location-based apps.

It can't cost anything to add, and in any case, they would make it back, and more, by selling more location-based apps.
It can't load the data without a network. Unless you cache it, but that's not ideal.
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Old Nov 5, 2012, 11:04 AM   #66
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Only because apple designed it that way.

GPS chips are not expensive
But they are dog slow to acquire signal initially. I have cameras with GPS chips and it takes them 1-2 mins to lock on the first signal. Makes they almost unusable for GPS taking a quick snapshot. The iPad seems to find a signal very quickly.
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Old Nov 5, 2012, 05:21 PM   #67
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Another solution is to buy a WiFi version of Android tablet (those do have GPS).
I'd buy an iPad without cellular or wifi before I'd get an Android tablet. They are getting better, but they still don't have the ecosystem that the iPad does. I'd be much more likely to switch my phone to Android than my tablet.

I don't see any compelling reasons to switch my tablet to Android, but I can see a number of compelling reasons to be on either of the two phone platforms, so it's a tough decision to stay or go.
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Old Nov 6, 2012, 03:53 AM   #68
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I would very much appreciate hearing what you find. As the owner of an original version iPad, I am in the market for an iPad 4. My current iPad is the cellular model and I like to use Google maps to help get around traffic, car accidents, etc. I would, if possible, prefer to save the extra $$$ and get the wifi only model.

If GPS doesn't work with the iPad tethered to an iPhone, then I might get the cellular version. If that's the case, does anyone know if you have to have a cellular data plan activated on the iPad for the GPS to work? Does the GPS work without a cellular data plan on the iPad?

Thanks!
It works. Not 100%, at times it'll track real time and other times there'll be a delay in tracking, but never long enough to miss a turn. It'll be good enough for occasional use.
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Old Nov 6, 2012, 07:30 AM   #69
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It works. Not 100%, at times it'll track real time and other times there'll be a delay in tracking, but never long enough to miss a turn. It'll be good enough for occasional use.
Thanks for confirming this. I am about to switch my wifes data plan so that we can get the Hotspot and tether to the ipad mini.
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Old Nov 6, 2012, 04:22 PM   #70
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I appreciate you trying it out and letting us know. Thanks!
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Old Nov 6, 2012, 04:29 PM   #71
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Can't speak for Samsung, but my wifi-only Motorola Xoom DOES have GPS. Real GPS, not A-GPS.
A-GPS is real GPS. It uses wifi cell towers to assist withgetting a quicker lock, but its the same real GPS you have. But now that I think about it, if you don't have A-GPS, then your GPS is inferior to the GPS Apple uses.
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Old Nov 6, 2012, 04:37 PM   #72
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A-GPS is real GPS. It uses wifi cell towers to assist withgetting a quicker lock, but its the same real GPS you have. But now that I think about it, if you don't have A-GPS, then your GPS is inferior to the GPS Apple uses.
Apple uses both A-GPS and GLONASS in their current generation iPads. About as up-to-date as it gets.
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Old Nov 6, 2012, 04:49 PM   #73
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Apple uses both A-GPS and GLONASS in their current generation iPads. About as up-to-date as it gets.
In Soviet Russia, GPS find you.
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