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Old Jun 22, 2013, 11:13 PM   #51
phrehdd
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Yes and a good analogue of using Handbrake would be like taking an audio file in AAC 320Kbps (very close sounding to the original) file and compressing it agin and down to MP3 96Kbps (audible artifacts added).

Just a little DTS-MA (and TrueHD) info. Both are totally lossless compression (like ALAC, FLAC or a Zip file) and are 100% bit for bit identical (not just "very close") to the LPCM master after decoding. Some BD's do contain LPCM tracks instead (or too) but they are almost always identical copies of the master (not down-sampled and/or bit lowered).
The advantage of DTS "HD" variants and True HD is the ability to provide normalization while LPCM does not. Also of course size of stream/file. As for lossless compression - yep but the truth is that while being as you say bit perfect, the original being used may not be the master but a reworked master and that too can be a good or bad thing.
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Old Jun 23, 2013, 12:07 AM   #52
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Would I regret if I stop buying blu rays and turn to digital content, especially when i use a AV receiver with 7 channels with a subwoofer, in the last reply someone told me there is no digital codecs like dolby digital how would this effect the sound being amplified from a HD receiver. Also would i notice a difference in picture quality when it is streamed onto my "55 tv. Finally does the Apple TV require an always on internet connection should I have no internet connection.
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Old Jun 23, 2013, 06:41 AM   #53
Julien
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Originally Posted by phrehdd View Post
The advantage of DTS "HD" variants and True HD is the ability to provide normalization while LPCM does not. Also of course size of stream/file. As for lossless compression - yep but the truth is that while being as you say bit perfect, the original being used may not be the master but a reworked master and that too can be a good or bad thing.
Yes, File size and DN (Dialogue Normalization) are a couple of advantages but there are others too. Reduced file size also means lower bandwidth with more language options. There is additional metadata (besides DN) in TrueHD & DTS-MA like dynamic range compression (aka: Night Mode) and Down-mixing (going from 7.1 to 5.1 all the way to 2.0). Also for the ultra purest TrueHD/DTS-MA will likely have less jitter (controversial and debatable if it can be heard) since it is passed as packet data (and not a stream like LPCM).

You are correct about the Master. When I use the term Master I'm referring to the "working" Master and not the Original (archive) Master. Often with a film the Working Master is tweaked (for good or bad) to compensate for differences in a large theater and a interment home environment or other reasons.
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Old Jun 23, 2013, 07:00 AM   #54
Julien
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Would I regret if I stop buying blu rays and turn to digital content, especially when i use a AV receiver with 7 channels with a subwoofer, in the last reply someone told me there is no digital codecs like dolby digital how would this effect the sound being amplified from a HD receiver. Also would i notice a difference in picture quality when it is streamed onto my "55 tv. Finally does the Apple TV require an always on internet connection should I have no internet connection.
You're ?'s are a little hard for me to understand (I don't speak Australian) but I'll give it a try.

1st a pet peeve of mine. Everyone (not just the OP) uses the term "digital" when referring to a download. FACT: All CD's, DVD's and BD's are digital.

Most download/streaming HD movies (like ATV) use a Dolby Digital ST. It is of course lossy (not TrueHD or DTS-MA) but will sound the same as a lossless ST to most people on most systems under most conditions.


Picture quality is a similar issue. A BD has a storage capacity of 50GB. Streamed HD movies are usually less than 10GB. However on a 55" 1080p TV you would need to set at about a <1.5 ratio (about 6' or less) to notice much difference. Also there are lots of things you might need to "learn" to look for like banding and micro blocking (sometimes ignorance is bliss).
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Old Jun 23, 2013, 07:19 PM   #55
mrmarts
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You're ?'s are a little hard for me to understand (I don't speak Australian) but I'll give it a try.

1st a pet peeve of mine. Everyone (not just the OP) uses the term "digital" when referring to a download. FACT: All CD's, DVD's and BD's are digital.

Most download/streaming HD movies (like ATV) use a Dolby Digital ST. It is of course lossy (not TrueHD or DTS-MA) but will sound the same as a lossless ST to most people on most systems under most conditions.


Picture quality is a similar issue. A BD has a storage capacity of 50GB. Streamed HD movies are usually less than 10GB. However on a 55" 1080p TV you would need to set at about a <1.5 ratio (about 6' or less) to notice much difference. Also there are lots of things you might need to "learn" to look for like banding and micro blocking (sometimes ignorance is bliss).
Thanks for the feedback I guess I will buy my first Apple TV today for the entertainment room and will give it a whirl, besides 108 bucks seems a fair price in Australia.
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Old Jun 23, 2013, 07:42 PM   #56
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Originally Posted by Julien View Post
You're ?'s are a little hard for me to understand (I don't speak Australian) but I'll give it a try.

1st a pet peeve of mine. Everyone (not just the OP) uses the term "digital" when referring to a download. FACT: All CD's, DVD's and BD's are digital.

Most download/streaming HD movies (like ATV) use a Dolby Digital ST. It is of course lossy (not TrueHD or DTS-MA) but will sound the same as a lossless ST to most people on most systems under most conditions.


Picture quality is a similar issue. A BD has a storage capacity of 50GB. Streamed HD movies are usually less than 10GB. However on a 55" 1080p TV you would need to set at about a <1.5 ratio (about 6' or less) to notice much difference. Also there are lots of things you might need to "learn" to look for like banding and micro blocking (sometimes ignorance is bliss).
Julian I suppose beauty is in the eye of the beholder. I find absolutely a big difference on my older 50" TV and my newer 65" TV with respect to playing a blu-ray disc vs the same movie streamed. On both TVs I can see a difference right away. Streamed usually has crushed blacks, slightly contrast increase, lost subtleties in certain scenes with respect to colour and most obvious is not nearly as "clean" looking in very high action scenes. When I say streaming - I refer to such items as Netflix, Amazon, Vudu etc. as opposed to streaming from say a home NAS with a full m2ts uncompressed 1080p level movie.

What might be said is most wont notice because they have no way to compare and often don't have a higher end TV. I am always amazed when I go to a BB store to see what people buy simply based on "size and price."
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Old Jun 24, 2013, 12:17 PM   #57
Julien
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Julian I suppose beauty is in the eye of the beholder. I find absolutely a big difference on my older 50" TV and my newer 65" TV with respect to playing a blu-ray disc vs the same movie streamed....What might be said is most wont notice because they have no way to compare and often don't have a higher end TV. I am always amazed when I go to a BB store to see what people buy simply based on "size and price."
My response was a direct answer to mrmarts' question ONLY and not meant as a blanket statement cover all, especially you. Obviously anyone who knows what crushed black are will have at least a minimum discriminating eye (you can't unlearn how to see this but for those [>95%] who don't know they will never notice and the same for most artifacts and calibration issues).

Over 95% of people turn on their TV's and leave them in Vivid (Torch) mode and have no idea that brightness is actually black level.
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Old Jun 24, 2013, 12:49 PM   #58
phrehdd
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My response was a direct answer to mrmarts' question ONLY and not meant as a blanket statement cover all, especially you. Obviously anyone who knows what crushed black are will have at least a minimum discriminating eye (you can't unlearn how to see this but for those [>95%] who don't know they will never notice and the same for most artifacts and calibration issues).

Over 95% of people turn on their TV's and leave them in Vivid (Torch) mode and have no idea that brightness is actually black level.
My response here is for especially you. No need to be rude.
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Old Jun 24, 2013, 01:15 PM   #59
Julien
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My response here is for especially you. No need to be rude.
No intention of being rude. I even considered it a complement indicating that you were an exception to the general rule in understanding video artifacts.

Not sure what you are reading into my comments but I apologize for any miscommunication and will not reference or refer to you again.
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Old Jun 24, 2013, 05:50 PM   #60
phrehdd
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No intention of being rude. I even considered it a complement indicating that you were an exception to the general rule in understanding video artifacts.

Not sure what you are reading into my comments but I apologize for any miscommunication and will not reference or refer to you again.
If I misread, then please accept my apology. I apologize.
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Old Jun 24, 2013, 08:51 PM   #61
mrmarts
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You're ?'s are a little hard for me to understand (I don't speak Australian) but I'll give it a try.

1st a pet peeve of mine. Everyone (not just the OP) uses the term "digital" when referring to a download. FACT: All CD's, DVD's and BD's are digital.

Most download/streaming HD movies (like ATV) use a Dolby Digital ST. It is of course lossy (not TrueHD or DTS-MA) but will sound the same as a lossless ST to most people on most systems under most conditions.


Picture quality is a similar issue. A BD has a storage capacity of 50GB. Streamed HD movies are usually less than 10GB. However on a 55" 1080p TV you would need to set at about a <1.5 ratio (about 6' or less) to notice much difference. Also there are lots of things you might need to "learn" to look for like banding and micro blocking (sometimes ignorance is bliss).
Hey Julien I ended up buying my first Apple TV, having only seen a few seconds of a hd movie purchased from the iTunes store Gladiator it looks good and seemingly like a blu when seen at a distance.

Oh tsk tsk you forget to answer my question does the Apple TV always require an online connection? Thanks for the feedback though, it helped me in my purchase.
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Last edited by mrmarts; Jun 24, 2013 at 09:20 PM.
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Old Jun 25, 2013, 05:20 AM   #62
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Hey Julien I ended up buying my first Apple TV, having only seen a few seconds of a hd movie purchased from the iTunes store Gladiator it looks good and seemingly like a blu when seen at a distance.

Oh tsk tsk you forget to answer my question does the Apple TV always require an online connection? Thanks for the feedback though, it helped me in my purchase.
Congrats! You can use it without Internet, but you are really limited to what you can do with it.
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Old Jun 25, 2013, 06:10 AM   #63
Julien
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...Oh tsk tsk you forget to answer my question does the Apple TV always require an online connection? Thanks for the feedback though, it helped me in my purchase.
Sorry, glad lunaoso answered the question (since I have no off line experience). The ATV has 8GB of Flash storage. Not sure what is left after OS loading but itís probably enough to hold (a single of) most HD movies. I have had HD movies to fully download within a few minutes after I started watching.

Hope you enjoy it.
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Old Jun 25, 2013, 06:21 AM   #64
mrmarts
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Sorry, glad lunaoso answered the question (since I have no off line experience). The ATV has 8GB of Flash storage. Not sure what is left after OS loading but it’s probably enough to hold (a single of) most HD movies. I have had HD movies to fully download within a few minutes after I started watching.

Hope you enjoy it.
Hey Julien just one more quick question i purchased some old TV sitcoms like Fawlty Towers, I Dream of Jeannie etc, but they are in letterbox not widescreen , is there any way i can make it fill the screen in iTunes on my mac?. As the TV which it is hooked to has little settings when it comes to adjusting the display orientation.
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Old Jun 25, 2013, 06:33 AM   #65
Julien
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Hey Julien just one more quick question i purchased some old TV sitcoms like Fawlty Towers, I Dream of Jeannie etc, but they are in letterbox not widescreen , is there any way i can make it fill the screen in iTunes on my mac?. As the TV which it is hooked to has little settings when it comes to adjusting the display orientation.
Actually they are not letterboxed. They are pillarboxed.

The aspect ratio is 1.33 (4x3) and your TV is 1.78 (16x9). This is akin to fitting a square peg in a round hole. The only way to make it fit is sand off the corners. The same is true in 1.33 to 1.78. You could have to carve off the about 1/3 of the picture (top and bottom) by zooming up to make the sides line up. ATV doesn't offer this. OAR is by far the best so you don't lose pic info. Go to this Wikipedia article and and look at the 4th set of picture comparisons to see what would be cut off. If the man had something in his hand important to the film........or a helicopter over the building....

Last edited by Julien; Jun 25, 2013 at 06:40 AM.
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