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Old Jan 24, 2013, 05:22 AM   #26
leman
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Originally Posted by walkie View Post
In the past CPU used to make almost all graphic and 3D rendering in conjunction with the GPU, nowadays this is almost done by GPU's alone so that CPU's can focus most of their power on the rest of the tasks, that's why you no longer need to use your CPU for playing a HD 1080 video, you can check this by playing a HD video and looking at the CPU monitoring tool, you won't see a peak as in the past, GPU is a graphic dedicated CPU.
I am confused by your logic. Yes, modern GPUs have video decoding acceleration built into them. But please tell us, what does video decoding have to do with UI rendering at all?
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Old Jan 24, 2013, 05:42 AM   #27
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Originally Posted by Ploki View Post
It's capable to drive 3 displays + internal with no stutter on externals.
I can reproduce stutters on one connected external display (EFI reset done) by simply running EyeTV on the internal display and playing WoW on the external one. Sometimes the frame rate collapses to one-digit-numbers, e.g. when changing camera angle or starting to move faster (flying mount) through the world.

I know it's not the EFI, as before the first EFI reset i couldn't manage to get beyond a measly 18fps, where i now have around 35-42 (limited) in normal situations.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ploki View Post
discrete gpu only fires up with app that have dependencies.
... or if you simply connect an external monitor.

----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by leman View Post
But please tell us, what does video decoding have to do with UI rendering at all?
Perhaps both using the same resources in the GPU? I'm not an expert with details of the Quartz implementation, though...
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Old Jan 24, 2013, 05:57 AM   #28
leman
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Originally Posted by Neodym View Post
I can reproduce stutters on one connected external display (EFI reset done) by simply running EyeTV on the internal display and playing WoW on the external one. Sometimes the frame rate collapses to one-digit-numbers, e.g. when changing camera angle or starting to move faster (flying mount) through the world.
I am not surprised that it will stutter if you play a 3D game (which already tries to allocate the whole GPU solely for itself) while watching a streamed video... The GPU has to perform context switches all the time, which obviously hampers performance.

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Originally Posted by Neodym View Post
Perhaps both using the same resources in the GPU? I'm not an expert with details of the Quartz implementation, though...
The GPU video decoding is often specialised hardware used to decompress videos in compressed format, like H.264 (technically, this hardware is part of the Intel CPUs on Macs with Intel QuickSync). You can't use this hardware to actually draw anything, only decode particular data.
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Old Jan 24, 2013, 06:40 AM   #29
Valkyre
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Neodym View Post
I can reproduce stutters on one connected external display (EFI reset done) by simply running EyeTV on the internal display and playing WoW on the external one. Sometimes the frame rate collapses to one-digit-numbers, e.g. when changing camera angle or starting to move faster (flying mount) through the world.

I know it's not the EFI, as before the first EFI reset i couldn't manage to get beyond a measly 18fps, where i now have around 35-42 (limited) in normal situations.


... or if you simply connect an external monitor.

----------


Perhaps both using the same resources in the GPU? I'm not an expert with details of the Quartz implementation, though...
lol are you serious? You are comparing its performance driving multiple displays while playing 3d games? Do you know ANYTHING about computers?

Like what did you think when someone tells you "it drives 3 displays + internal"??? That you can play crysis 2 on one display, wow on the other display, diablo on the 3rd and maybe farmville in the 4th one?

Lag free? lol
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Old Jan 24, 2013, 09:57 AM   #30
walkie
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Originally Posted by leman View Post
I am confused by your logic. Yes, modern GPUs have video decoding acceleration built into them. But please tell us, what does video decoding have to do with UI rendering at all?
There's no magic in my logic, you cannot play a video, run a 3D rendering app and drag a window all at the same time with no lag on UI, I mean if you do all this your GPU would be so busy that it won't be able to do everything with no lag, and CPU won't help in the graphic area unless the operating system asks CPU for help, can you walk your dog, cook and watch tv all at the same time with no lag?.
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Old Jan 24, 2013, 10:07 AM   #31
Ploki
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Originally Posted by walkie View Post
There's no magic in my logic, you cannot play a video, run a 3D rendering app and drag a window all at the same time with no lag on UI, I mean if you do all this your GPU would be so busy that it won't be able to do everything with no lag, and CPU won't help in the graphic area unless the operating system asks CPU for help, can you walk your dog, cook and watch tv all at the same time with no lag?.
GUI of the OS is not tasking the CPU rather GPU.
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Old Jan 25, 2013, 03:10 AM   #32
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Originally Posted by Valkyre View Post
lol are you serious? You are comparing its performance driving multiple displays while playing 3d games? Do you know ANYTHING about computers?
Actually i do. Plus i do know a lot about politeness and good behaviour in discussions, where you seem to lack knowledge!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Valkyre View Post
Like what did you think when someone tells you "it drives 3 displays + internal"???
Obviously you are challenged when it comes to quoting. I'll help you out - the original text was "It's capable to drive 3 displays + internal with no stutter on externals."

Quote:
Originally Posted by Valkyre View Post
That you can play crysis 2 on one display, wow on the other display, diablo on the 3rd and maybe farmville in the 4th one?
Mmmh - seems like you're not only challenged in quoting, but also in reading comprehension, so you need to make stupid assumptions out of thin air.

I'll try to explain it again for you: The original post mentioned running 4 displays (1 internal, 3 external) without stutter on the external displays. My setup was 2 displays (that is half the number) with 1 internal and 1 external. Therefore the GPU has to push significantly less pixels around.

I then assumed that running a (that means: one) 3D game with mediocre hardware requirements would make up for driving 2 less displays (give or take), depending on the applications running on the other setup with 4 displays.

Of course you're free to consider this in no way comparable at all, however i felt it would give an idea of possible limitations of the rMBP's GPU.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Valkyre View Post
Lag free? lol
I'll give you some good advice, son: Using "lol" in an internet discussion makes you look like a premature teen (even more so with repeated use). In this case it fits the rest of your posting, but if you want to be taken seriously you should really try to avoid it.

----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by leman View Post
I am not surprised that it will stutter if you play a 3D game (which already tries to allocate the whole GPU solely for itself) while watching a streamed video... The GPU has to perform context switches all the time, which obviously hampers performance.
Mmmh - is there any way to have both GPU's work in parallel and assign each one to one or more outputs exclusively? So you could e.g. have the HD4000 running the internal screen and dedicate the discrete GPU to the external one? In stationary mode the higher power consumption from using both GPU's wouldn't matter anyway...
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Old Jan 25, 2013, 03:32 AM   #33
Valkyre
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Originally Posted by Neodym View Post
Actually i do. Plus i do know a lot about politeness and good behaviour in discussions, where you seem to lack knowledge!


Obviously you are challenged when it comes to quoting. I'll help you out - the original text was "It's capable to drive 3 displays + internal with no stutter on externals."


Mmmh - seems like you're not only challenged in quoting, but also in reading comprehension, so you need to make stupid assumptions out of thin air.

I'll try to explain it again for you: The original post mentioned running 4 displays (1 internal, 3 external) without stutter on the external displays. My setup was 2 displays (that is half the number) with 1 internal and 1 external. Therefore the GPU has to push significantly less pixels around.

I then assumed that running a (that means: one) 3D game with mediocre hardware requirements would make up for driving 2 less displays (give or take), depending on the applications running on the other setup with 4 displays.

Of course you're free to consider this in no way comparable at all, however i felt it would give an idea of possible limitations of the rMBP's GPU.


I'll give you some good advice, son: Using "lol" in an internet discussion makes you look like a premature teen (even more so with repeated use). In this case it fits the rest of your posting, but if you want to be taken seriously you should really try to avoid it.

----------


Mmmh - is there any way to have both GPU's work in parallel and assign each one to one or more outputs exclusively? So you could e.g. have the HD4000 running the internal screen and dedicate the discrete GPU to the external one? In stationary mode the higher power consumption from using both GPU's wouldn't matter anyway...
1) The fact that you consider playing a 3d game the same as driving 2 displays, quite honestly shows your level of knowledge around computers.

2) the fact that you want to have multiple displays in order to play a game and work on another display at the same time... yeah ok, wierd in multiple levels. first of all this machine -while very capable- is not meant for gaming, secondly not very awesome or practical to work while playing games.

3) i have tested my machine with 2 external displays + the internal. Run c4d on one display, internet on the second display with multiple tabs (webkit safari) and minor photoshop work on the third. Zero lag. Zero stutters.

4) it is quite amazing to watch a WoW guy lecture me about the internet and the use of "lol" abbreviation.
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Old Jan 28, 2013, 03:36 AM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Valkyre View Post
1) The fact that you consider playing a 3d game the same as driving 2 displays, quite honestly shows your level of knowledge around computers.
Reading comprehension is not one of your strenghts, indeed. I spoke of driving 2 additional displays up to a total of 4 and mentioned the dependency of the applications running on those.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Valkyre View Post
2) the fact that you want to have multiple displays in order to play a game and work on another display at the same time... yeah ok, wierd in multiple levels.
*sigh* Why don't you at least try to understand what i write? Or is watching TV really hard work for you? Sorry if i overestimated you...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Valkyre View Post
first of all this machine -while very capable- is not meant for gaming,
Seems i have overlooked that paragraph in my purchasing contract. How do you figure? Only because of the "Pro" moniker? Sorry if i blemish your elitist Pro user group thinking by using the rMBP for more than work and - heaven forbid - gaming on it!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Valkyre View Post
secondly not very awesome or practical to work while playing games.
Read -> Understand -> Answer.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Valkyre View Post
3) i have tested my machine with 2 external displays + the internal. Run c4d on one display, internet on the second display with multiple tabs (webkit safari) and minor photoshop work on the third. Zero lag. Zero stutters.
Great for you! Too bad you're not the one and only measure for everyone else or as they say: YMMV!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Valkyre View Post
4) it is quite amazing to watch a WoW guy lecture me about the internet and the use of "lol" abbreviation.
Outside your little black-and-white world the 10 million or so WoW players worldwide are a much more heterogeneous group than you think! Not everyone is jumping around, 'lol'ing, 'rofl'ing, 'wtf'ing and 'omg'ing all day long.

My apologies for shaking your amazingly stupid prejudices!
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Old Jan 28, 2013, 04:28 AM   #35
Valkyre
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Originally Posted by Neodym View Post
Reading comprehension is not one of your strenghts, indeed. I spoke of driving 2 additional displays up to a total of 4 and mentioned the dependency of the applications running on those.


*sigh* Why don't you at least try to understand what i write? Or is watching TV really hard work for you? Sorry if i overestimated you...


Seems i have overlooked that paragraph in my purchasing contract. How do you figure? Only because of the "Pro" moniker? Sorry if i blemish your elitist Pro user group thinking by using the rMBP for more than work and - heaven forbid - gaming on it!


Read -> Understand -> Answer.


Great for you! Too bad you're not the one and only measure for everyone else or as they say: YMMV!


Outside your little black-and-white world the 10 million or so WoW players worldwide are a much more heterogeneous group than you think! Not everyone is jumping around, 'lol'ing, 'rofl'ing, 'wtf'ing and 'omg'ing all day long.

My apologies for shaking your amazingly stupid prejudices!
You've got to be kidding me...

Stop all this "mentally challenged" bs you are spreading everytime someone simply puts you down for saying something stupid. And if I am mentaly challenged in reading comprehension, then you are mentally challenged in articulating your opinion adequately in written form.

But lets get on with it shall we:

A) how in the world am i saying something different than what you are saying? Is it that reading comprehension isnt one of your strengths as well? your words:

"I then assumed that running a (that means: one) 3D game with mediocre hardware requirements would make up for driving 2 less displays (give or take), depending on the applications running on the other setup with 4 displays."

Now are you kidding me? What exactly did I not comprehend? I think it is you who cannot comprehend my response, which is that if you think (or "assume") that running a 3d game would make up for driving 2 less displays (give or take) , then that clearly shows how shallow your knowledge around computers is...

now does that compute?

good. Moving on:

B) Excuse me, but i find it rather ironic, for a guy who has multiple displays, + a 3000$ laptop, that he has no other way of watching tv...or that he doesnt even own one... and yeah, I do not consider that the best way to use multiple displays. Multiple displays is meant for more work oriented stuff, not flashy showing off. But hey, if you want to show off, good for you, just dont expect the machine to agree with you.

C) What you are asking the machine to do is not -yet- possible. You cant have a smooth experience driving multiple displays and playing 3d game at the same time. When you spend 3,000$ for a laptop that is clearly work oreinted and you expect to drive 1-2 displays while playing a 3d game, and then you bitch about stuttering and slowing down, yeah something is wrong. If you want to play 3d games you can buy an alienware and a Macbook air for the same price almost.

D) You say good for me, but yiou dont get it... your machine is the same as mine. Your machine will drive all the displays the same way i decribed mine. Unless you have a serious hardware issue (or you just need to reset the SMC due to that stupid bug), your machine is just fine. Again you are asking too much. You cant play games, watch tv and have a desktop running lag and stutter free. You just cant. There is bound to be slowdown involved.

E) I know very well the WoW community I used to play for 2 years then got extremely annoyed by the people involved in it. (not everyone ofc). But it has been a while so things might have changed and all the 12 year olds might be extinct. Or actually matured by now... Besides my point was, you started bitching about a "lol"... a friggin "lol" for crying out loud..! (not laughing).
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Old Jan 28, 2013, 03:42 PM   #36
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Originally Posted by Valkyre View Post
You cant play games, watch tv and have a desktop running lag and stutter free. You just cant. There is bound to be slowdown involved.
Finally we agree: There are noticeable (lags/stutter) limits to the (graphic) hardware under certain conditions. Playing a game is usually the easiest way to uncover / evaluate such limits...
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Old Jan 28, 2013, 05:08 PM   #37
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Finally we agree: There are noticeable (lags/stutter) limits to the (graphic) hardware under certain conditions. Playing a game is usually the easiest way to uncover / evaluate such limits...
of course and there are limits. My first post even noted exactly that. I exaggerated (playing 4 games) just to point out that some people, just because they hear "unbelievably powerful machine" that it can do everything, without even a hit in performance.

Thats just nuts.

This machine is powerful. It can drive 4 displays and one of those has 5.2 mil pixels by itself.... That alone as a feat proves how powerful this computer is.

But that doesn't mean that you can drive 4 displays and do anything and everything you want in each and every one of these displays without affecting the performance.

Playing a 3d game in one display is going to ask for a lot of resources. You can't expect the computer not to be affected at all. rendering of all sorts is going to ask a lot from the gpu and cpu.

But you can use 4 displays and have relatively heavy apps running simultaneously in each one without stutter or lag. C4D, photoshop, aftereffects, you can use them in different displays and you won't have any lag. (unless you want to render a scene in C4D for example, then of course you will have slowdown in the other displays, since the CPU is going to be working overtime for the render)

Computers get more powerful and faster, but there are always limits. Multiple displays and gaming doesn't cope very well, and it has really nothing to do with the retina display. Or if it has... it is relatively minor... so small that it doesn't make any difference worth mentioning.
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Old Jan 28, 2013, 06:33 PM   #38
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My Core i7 overclocked to 4GHz with 12GB ram and a Dual 2GB GDDR5 NVIDIA GeForce GTX 680 stutters when I power 3 external displays, play Crysis 2 on highest settings and stream 3 blu ray quality movies, the hardware is clearly not powerful enough to power my 1080p screen.

It is easy to push the limits of any computer, If you reallly need to do all that at the same time then you need a different computer, Simple as that.

If you dont notice lag on your everyday task then it should matter. The GPU is very capable of driving the retina screen while taxing the gpu with other programs at the same time but it too has it limits.
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Old Jan 28, 2013, 07:06 PM   #39
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Originally Posted by Neodym View Post
Finally we agree: There are noticeable (lags/stutter) limits to the (graphic) hardware under certain conditions. Playing a game is usually the easiest way to uncover / evaluate such limits...
If you need all that at the same time you're better off with 3 computers.
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