Register FAQ / Rules Forum Spy Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read
Go Back   MacRumors Forums > iPhone, iPod and iPad > iPad

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old Oct 29, 2012, 05:32 PM   #301
Scott2345
macrumors regular
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Quote:
Originally Posted by Idefix View Post
Has anybody noticed that Apple is now shipping refurb iPad 3 for $379?

Seems to me that would be the way to go???
That's the route I went. I was gonna buy the mini but then for $50 more I get the iPad 3. It was a easy choice.
Scott2345 is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Oct 29, 2012, 05:35 PM   #302
fsumom
macrumors regular
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Quote:
Originally Posted by Idefix View Post
Has anybody noticed that Apple is now shipping refurb iPad 3 for $379?

Seems to me that would be the way to go???
Not if you want a smaller iPad .
fsumom is offline   1 Reply With Quote
Old Oct 29, 2012, 06:09 PM   #303
mcman77
macrumors 6502a
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rogifan View Post
That basically covers the cost of running the iTunes App Store business. I doubt they're making much profit on it


How many apps were sold??!! 30% of that is ridiculous money! You must be trolling...
mcman77 is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Oct 29, 2012, 08:05 PM   #304
Andrew K.
macrumors 65816
 
Andrew K.'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Quote:
Originally Posted by macingman View Post
What I was saying is that Apple doesn't just rely on profit from the content they take money from both the content sales and the hardware.

Apple would never sell a product at cost price and rely on just content sales for a profit, if they did that they would be worth significantly less than they are today.

The only reason a company like Google can sell at cost price is because they make money from many other revenue streams. Although Apple can make money from content (iTunes, apps etc) the amount Apple turns over in content is much less than Google does as Google does advertising etc.
I don't understand why more people don't get this. If the sub $200 tablets never came out no one would be complaining about the price.
__________________
iPhone 5 Black 32GB l iPad Air Black 32GB l MacBook Pro 15.4" Late 2008 l Apple TV 3
Andrew K. is offline   1 Reply With Quote
Old Oct 29, 2012, 08:39 PM   #305
macingman
macrumors 68020
 
macingman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Quote:
Originally Posted by Andrew K. View Post
I don't understand why more people don't get this. If the sub $200 tablets never came out no one would be complaining about the price.
Because people don't care about apples profits only that their iPad is cheaper.
macingman is offline   1 Reply With Quote
Old Oct 30, 2012, 09:14 AM   #306
53x12
macrumors 68000
 
53x12's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
For those discussing the issue of GPS vs. lack of GPS in wifi only models, here is a good article by Lewis Page.


Quote:
Comment Wi-Fi-only iPads have never featured GPS, but the lack of satellite-navigation tech in the new Mini fondleslab's non-cellular version has provoked a mild backlash: and rightly so, though not many people understand why.

The new gizmos do have a "digital compass", a magnetometer which is aware of the direction the slab is being pointed but not it's location. The device guesses where it is by sniffing for nearby WiFi base stations and checking their position against Apple's database of unique device IDs.


It's not at all accurate - the database has only a sketchy notion where the base stations are, and the slab has very little idea where it is in relation to them. If there aren't any Wi-Fi boxes about, it won't work at all. But because Wi-Fi signals are short-ranging, the uncertainties aren't too large and it'll do for working out the route from the Starbucks to the beret shop.

If like most people you only ever use "free" online mapping services such as Google Maps or Apple Maps, there's not much point in a Wi-Fi-only iPad having GPS. It would know where it was thanks to the generosity of the US Defense Department* even if it didn't have a Wi-Fi signal, but it couldn't pinpoint itself on an online mapping service because it couldn't get online.

It would of course be a simple matter - and require only a few gigs of storage - to put a nation's worth of maps on the device, as proper satnavs and navigation apps do, but neither Google nor Apple like you being able to operate without a data connection constantly telling them where you are. Advertisers and other people are very interested in this kind of information and will pay big money for it: this is how you pay for "free" online maps.

Apple does reluctantly fit GPS in its devices which have cellular data connections, as cell-tower signals are long ranging and thus are likely not to offer any position information of any use - and people would notice if they could get an online map but not locate themselves on it.

Rival slablets such as the Nexus 7 and the Galaxy Tab 2 feature the nowadays trivially-cheap-to-install GPS chipset by default, even in Wi-Fi only models, meaning that you always have the option to get on-device maps and avoid being tracked everywhere you go (and incidentally to avoid using up bandwidth allowances unnecessarily; and to navigate effectively in places where there is no data signal of any kind or only a poor one).

Not very many people will care enough to do that - but Apple, characteristically, has made sure that it isn't even an option where the company sees a chance to do so. This isn't just mildly evil: it also shows that the firm has an insultingly poor opinion of its customers' tech savvy.

Bootnotes
*Who pay for and run the GPS satellite constellation, mainly for their own purposes. Experience has shown that it may be necessary at this stage to point out that the GPS signal is one-way only from satellite to receiver: the Pentagon can't track you using the satellites, though tracker bugs - which send their information to their masters using other means - often locate themselves using GPS.

On the matter of power consumption, GPS is something of a battery hog - but not an exceptional one in these days of large video displays, 4G data connections etc.

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2012/10...i_wifi_no_gps/
53x12 is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Oct 30, 2012, 09:15 AM   #307
takeshi74
macrumors 601
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Quote:
Originally Posted by johndallas999 View Post
I'm sorry but if you pay 329 for a 16GB mini you've either got more money than common sense or are a complete moron.
Nonsense. Expensive is subjective. If it's too much for you then don't buy it. Don't just assume that your situation and preferences are universal.
takeshi74 is offline   1 Reply With Quote
Old Oct 30, 2012, 09:44 AM   #308
Want300
macrumors 65816
 
Want300's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: St. Louis, MO
Apparently people are more than willing to pay even more than $329. See links below:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/170931807043...84.m1423.l2649

http://www.ebay.com/itm/150934966929...84.m1423.l2649

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Apple-iPad-M...item337d628372


Top two are for a white Mini and the 3rd is for a black Mini.
__________________
AT&T 64 GB iPhone 5 | Sprint 16 GB iPhone 4S | 15" MacBook Pro - 2.4 GHz i7 | 32 GB iPad 2 Wifi | Apple TV

Last edited by Want300; Oct 30, 2012 at 09:55 AM.
Want300 is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Oct 30, 2012, 09:48 AM   #309
poloponies
macrumors 68030
 
Join Date: May 2010
Quote:
Originally Posted by mcman77 View Post


How many apps were sold??!! 30% of that is ridiculous money! You must be trolling...
Apple doesn't make money on the Apple Store. What's hard to understand about that? It's a service they provide to support developers and to provide content to its hardware purchasers. They pay the content producers 70% of the income from the sale but that doesn't mean they keep what's left. It's pretty costly to maintain the type of operation they have. They don't report profits as a line item but speculation for last year was that it was running Apple well over $100 million a month for the store and that cost increases as more people join the Apple family.
poloponies is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Oct 30, 2012, 11:32 AM   #310
oscillatewildly
macrumors 65816
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: 23 Railway Cuttings
Quote:
Originally Posted by Andrew K. View Post
...If the sub $200 tablets never came out no one would be complaining about the price.
Would the Mini exist?
__________________
Nobody said nothing about locking horns with no Tigers.
oscillatewildly is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Oct 30, 2012, 01:31 PM   #311
comatose81
macrumors 6502a
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Why do people bitch incessantly about this stuff? If you think Apple is not being run correctly, or not marketing correctly, or not pricing their products correctly, start your own business and take them down. It should be easy since they are doing so many things wrong.

I personally think the iPad mini is overpriced. I don't think that there is anything better on the market (which is what Apple is banking on) but for what it is I won't be spending $329. That's all that matters. If you don't like the price, don't buy it.

The people who are crying nonstop about it are those who want it really badly but can't afford it. Newsflash: Apple won't be selling dirt-cheap devices. Ever.
comatose81 is offline   3 Reply With Quote
Old Oct 30, 2012, 01:41 PM   #312
phantomsd
macrumors 6502
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: San Diego, CA
Quote:
Originally Posted by comatose81 View Post
why do people bitch incessantly about this stuff? If you think apple is not being run correctly, or not marketing correctly, or not pricing their products correctly, start your own business and take them down. It should be easy since they are doing so many things wrong.

I personally think the ipad mini is overpriced. I don't think that there is anything better on the market (which is what apple is banking on) but for what it is i won't be spending $329. That's all that matters. If you don't like the price, don't buy it.

The people who are crying nonstop about it are those who want it really badly but can't afford it. Newsflash: Apple won't be selling dirt-cheap devices. Ever.
sticky, please!!!
phantomsd is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Oct 30, 2012, 01:48 PM   #313
munkery
macrumors 68020
 
munkery's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Quote:
Originally Posted by 53x12 View Post
For those discussing the issue of GPS vs. lack of GPS in wifi only models, here is a good article by Lewis Page.
That article doesn't take into account the limitations of GPS that isn't assisted by cellular data.

Those limitations being inaccuracy (up to 30 metres) due to interference when line of sight to GPS satellites are obscured and, in the worst case, when GPS signals are totally blocked.

The difference in performance between cellular navigation compared to GPS in dense city centres with many cellular base stations is inconsequnential. Cellular gets better with more base station and GPS gets worse with more signal interference and blockage.

Assisted GPS, which uses both, mitigates the limitations of either method via working together.

Any device that has one navigation method without the other only has the feature as a gimmick.

In a wifi only device, a rear camera makes more sense than GPS.
munkery is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Oct 30, 2012, 01:51 PM   #314
fsumom
macrumors regular
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Quote:
Originally Posted by comatose81 View Post
Why do people bitch incessantly about this stuff? If you think Apple is not being run correctly, or not marketing correctly, or not pricing their products correctly, start your own business and take them down. It should be easy since they are doing so many things wrong.

I personally think the iPad mini is overpriced. I don't think that there is anything better on the market (which is what Apple is banking on) but for what it is I won't be spending $329. That's all that matters. If you don't like the price, don't buy it.

The people who are crying nonstop about it are those who want it really badly but can't afford it. Newsflash: Apple won't be selling dirt-cheap devices. Ever.
Amen! I think it's overpriced too, but bought it anyways as I wanted to buy a tablet for my DD and I prefer Apple's OS. However, as taken aback as I was with the starting price, I haven't griped about it as there is nothing I can do to change the price. If you don't like the price, just don't buy it but to go on and on and on about the specs aren't up to par with where they should be and blah blah blah is just so.....annoying.
fsumom is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Oct 30, 2012, 02:08 PM   #315
bembol
macrumors 6502a
 
bembol's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: iCloud
I don't why people are surprised or upset when the new iPod touch is selling for $299.99, which more ridiculous. I can't see myself paying more than $200 for an iPod. This way pricing the new iPad mini at $249 would've made everyone happy.

Also, it's Apple being Apple. If you're whining about $329.99 my girl is going to kill me when she finds out I spent $659.99 for a 64GB iPad mini LTE. LOL
__________________
SHIFT_
27" iMac Late-2012 Base w/32GB RAM & 3TB Fusion | Black 32GB nexus 5 32GB Black iPad Air Wi-Fi
bembol is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Oct 30, 2012, 02:19 PM   #316
mantan
macrumors 6502a
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: By Grabthar's Hammer
Quote:
Originally Posted by bembol View Post
I don't why people are surprised or upset when the new iPod touch is selling for $299.99, which more ridiculous. I can't see myself paying more than $200 for an iPod. This way pricing the new iPad mini at $249 would've made everyone happy.

Also, it's Apple being Apple. If you're whining about $329.99 my girl is going to kill me when she finds out I spent $659.99 for a 64GB iPad mini LTE. LOL
I think part of that is because the iPod Touch market is a lot smaller than the iPhone/iPad market.

I imagine most are bought by DIEHARD fans or as a gateway device for kids. With the availability of 'free on contract' and hand me downs it's even smaller.
mantan is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Oct 30, 2012, 03:02 PM   #317
53x12
macrumors 68000
 
53x12's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Quote:
Originally Posted by munkery View Post
In a wifi only device, a rear camera makes more sense than GPS.


That might be true for you, but I wouldn't make that a blanket statement across the board. I think GPS on a wifi only tablet is very useful, especially if you can download maps while on wifi and use them when you don't have internet access. Having the ability to use GPS on top of that is gravy.

Holding up a 7in tablet to take a picture or video looks "douchy" to me and I would never do that personally. I have a phone or a DSLR for taking pictures and video.
53x12 is offline   1 Reply With Quote
Old Oct 30, 2012, 03:07 PM   #318
Idefix
macrumors 6502
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Conan has come out with his own assessment of Apple's iPads:

http://teamcoco.com/video/conan-high...ni-has-company

What size iPad did you really want?
Idefix is offline   1 Reply With Quote
Old Oct 30, 2012, 05:39 PM   #319
mcman77
macrumors 6502a
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Quote:
Originally Posted by poloponies View Post
Apple doesn't make money on the Apple Store. What's hard to understand about that? It's a service they provide to support developers and to provide content to its hardware purchasers. They pay the content producers 70% of the income from the sale but that doesn't mean they keep what's left. It's pretty costly to maintain the type of operation they have. They don't report profits as a line item but speculation for last year was that it was running Apple well over $100 million a month for the store and that cost increases as more people join the Apple family.
OH MY GOD! are you serious!?

They also charge $99 a year ... you gonna tell me that's for the developers interest too?

I find it hard to believe that you actually think so...
mcman77 is offline   1 Reply With Quote
Old Oct 30, 2012, 06:07 PM   #320
poloponies
macrumors 68030
 
Join Date: May 2010
Quote:
Originally Posted by mcman77 View Post
OH MY GOD! are you serious!?

They also charge $99 a year ... you gonna tell me that's for the developers interest too?

I find it hard to believe that you actually think so...
Easy on the caffeine there, Sparky. It's really not a matter of what I think, it's what the facts are. Apple keeps the iTunes data pretty well hidden but this is the data for 2011:

$6 Billion in revenue (actual), $1.3 Billion in expenses (estimated).

http://www.billboard.biz/bbbiz/indus...05988552.story

http://www.asymco.com/2011/06/13/itu...lionyr-to-run/

The store doesn't just happen. It costs money to maintain it, run the sales/billing, run and support the data servers, serve the bandwidth. Apple isn't stealing 30% from developers/content producers, it's a fee for providing and maintaining the infrastructure. Given the 2011 figure, there's not a lot of wiggle room there. Best case, if the estimates are correct has Apple taking $500 million in gross profit - in a year where they had $46 Billion plus in gross profit. It's very likely less. Very impressive for some companies, but not a game-changer for Apple.

Apple also has to support the tons of free content and updates just the same as the paid.
poloponies is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Oct 30, 2012, 07:51 PM   #321
Phokus
macrumors regular
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Quote:
Originally Posted by LTMK View Post
agree... but imagine if AAPL can sell 100million units (like ipad) in 2 years... that $30 difference means additional $3 billion net profit!!! then why not...
That speaks more to the stupidity of your average apple customer.
Phokus is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Oct 30, 2012, 08:07 PM   #322
munkery
macrumors 68020
 
munkery's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Quote:
Originally Posted by 53x12 View Post
That might be true for you, but I wouldn't make that a blanket statement across the board. I think GPS on a wifi only tablet is very useful, especially if you can download maps while on wifi and use them when you don't have internet access. Having the ability to use GPS on top of that is gravy.

Holding up a 7in tablet to take a picture or video looks "douchy" to me and I would never do that personally. I have a phone or a DSLR for taking pictures and video.
For somebody that worries about looking "douchy", I surprised that you don't feel "low budget" using a 7" tablet as cheap alternative to having a built in navigation system in your vehicle.

You must have a "low budget" phone that doesn't have GPS to motivate you to use your tablet for GPS given that the assisted GPS in a phone is much more reliable.

Using a high end phone for GPS navigation seems way less "low budget" than a cheap tablet.

Disclaimer: I don't care about how others decide to use their devices; this post is intended to convey that referring to how others use their devices as douchy is the epitome of douche. References to being "low budget" are intended to show the poster to which this response is directed that such references are douchy.
munkery is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Oct 30, 2012, 10:04 PM   #323
53x12
macrumors 68000
 
53x12's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Quote:
Originally Posted by munkery View Post
For somebody that worries about looking "douchy", I surprised that you don't feel "low budget" using a 7" tablet as cheap alternative to having a built in navigation system in your vehicle.

Low budget vs. a douche? I would rather be "low budget" even if that means spending 65% more on a tablet than its closest competitor.


Quote:
Originally Posted by munkery View Post
You must have a "low budget" phone that doesn't have GPS to motivate you to use your tablet for GPS given that the assisted GPS in a phone is much more reliable.

I would except Apple put this new craptastic app called Maps on my iPhone which is useless and utter rubbish.



Quote:
Originally Posted by munkery View Post
Using a high end phone for GPS navigation seems way less "low budget" than a cheap tablet.
See above.


Quote:
Originally Posted by munkery View Post

Disclaimer: I don't care about how others decide to use their devices; this post is intended to convey that referring to how others use their devices as douchy is the epitome of douche. References to being "low budget" are intended to show the poster to which this response is directed that such references are douchy.
You might not care what others do with their device, still doesn't mean that their actions don't convey certain meanings to others. That is fine that you don't feel certain actions are douchy. Others do. The poster to which this reply is directed should note that such comments as his are the epitome of which he is referring to.
53x12 is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Oct 30, 2012, 10:09 PM   #324
Idefix
macrumors 6502
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Here's an intriguing possibility: A dedicated Bluetooth GPS device that works with iPads and iPhones, along with selected apps (you should verify that the app you're interested in works via bluetooth

http://www.amazon.com/Dual-Electroni...s=gps+receiver

From the comments on amazon, it works with Navigon but not with MotionX.

Question is, since it's close to $100, why you wouldn't just spend $30 extra and get the 3G/4G iPad which has GPS?
Idefix is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Oct 30, 2012, 11:14 PM   #325
munkery
macrumors 68020
 
munkery's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Quote:
Originally Posted by 53x12 View Post
I would except Apple put this new craptastic app called Maps on my iPhone which is useless and utter rubbish.
Maps works fine for navigation. It's basically TomTom's maps, which are used in dedicated GPS devices, combined with other sources. Most of the issues were with fly over views which aren't used for navigation.

The fact that assisted GPS is more reliable than standalone GPS and most smartphones include assisted GPS is probably the motivation for TomTom changing their business model to include licensing of services to other parties producing GPS supporting devices.

Quote:
You might not care what others do with their device, still doesn't mean that their actions don't convey certain meanings to others.
Seeing meaning in how others use their devices seems pretty shallow.

I don't make judgements about those that use the GPS in a wifi only tablet. Different needs for different users.

I don't like it when those users refer to their usage behaviour as evidence that another device is lacking in spec. You bought what you needed.

I clarified the limitations of the spec that those users brought into question, namely standalone GPS, to help those users come to the realization that other users may see that spec as inadequate for other uses.

Why? Because nobody really gives a $h!t beyond their own perspective.

So, I might as well troll the trolls.

Quote:
That is fine that you don't feel certain actions are douchy. Others do. The poster to which this reply is directed should note that such comments as his are the epitome of which he is referring to.
If you actually understood the meaning of the disclaimer, you would understand that I wasn't referring to you as low budget but only using the term to show that making negative attributions about device usage behaviour is douchy.

Being judgemental about how someone uses a device is douchy.

Being judgemental about someone making a negative attribution about how another person uses a device is justifiable because the action is taken in defence of someone that doesn't deserve being a target for negative attributions.
munkery is offline   0 Reply With Quote

Reply
MacRumors Forums > iPhone, iPod and iPad > iPad

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 01:03 AM.

Mac Rumors | Mac | iPhone | iPhone Game Reviews | iPhone Apps

Mobile Version | Fixed | Fluid | Fluid HD
Copyright 2002-2013, MacRumors.com, LLC