Register FAQ / Rules Forum Spy Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read
Go Back   MacRumors Forums > News and Article Discussion > MacRumors.com News Discussion

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old Jul 29, 2013, 03:57 PM   #51
apolloa
macrumors 68040
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Quote:
Originally Posted by nascimento View Post
The NHS is one of the larger spenders in the Uk economy as such it procures its equipment and medicines just about all over the world. (eg:India and Asia)

On the Human side you would not be able to have that service if you did not import doctors and nurses from other countries where wages are lower.
Utter bull crap! It is a incredibly closed minded opinion to believe a country is incapable of supporting it's own needs with it's own people native to the land, very naive and closed thinking, you are stating the people native to the land are incapable of being doctors or nurses.
The NHS has been performing particularly well before Labour decided to invite everyone on the planet into the country!
But reading your other comments it's plain to see you are a very naive person who has very little faith or belief in your own country and it's people which is a shame.
apolloa is offline   1 Reply With Quote
Old Jul 29, 2013, 04:28 PM   #52
nascimento
macrumors regular
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Quote:
Originally Posted by apolloa View Post
Utter bull crap! It is a incredibly closed minded opinion to believe a country is incapable of supporting it's own needs with it's own people native to the land, very naive and closed thinking, you are stating the people native to the land are incapable of being doctors or nurses.
The NHS has been performing particularly well before Labour decided to invite everyone on the planet into the country!
But reading your other comments it's plain to see you are a very naive person who has very little faith or belief in your own country and it's people which is a shame.
There is no “Bull” in what I said both statements are a reality. Most of the hospital equipment is Indian/Asian made and nearly all the medicine is produced in those continents.

I never mentioned that the UK is incapable of either manufacturing/producing the equipment or nurturing capable doctors, nurses, health care workers, social services, etc. The fact is that you have been importing them for quite a long time. Don’t blame me, blame your politicians, universities (and yourself) for not organizing yourselves!
nascimento is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Jul 29, 2013, 04:48 PM   #53
nascimento
macrumors regular
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Quote:

----------

[/COLOR]

BS. They squeeze every penny so they can make an huge profits to serve their fat cat masters on Wall Street.

The rest of your comment made me very angry but I'll refrain from swearing.
That is what these companies exist for. Create wealth through efficiency and that includes cost cutting so as to maximize profits. The governments are there to legislate in a way that does not hinder these companies but that will not permit abuses. Sorry but be angry with your MP if you think globalization isnt working for you, dont be angry with me.

Personally I think the world has gone nuts and that ethics and values have gone through the window.
nascimento is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Jul 29, 2013, 05:09 PM   #54
Shaun, UK
macrumors 68000
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Quote:
Originally Posted by nascimento View Post
Most of the hospital equipment is Indian/Asian made and nearly all the medicine is produced in those continents.
Do you have any evidence to support those claims? I would suspect that in fact most of the specialist equipment used in the NHS is made in the UK, Europe or the US. There are also a significant number of medicines produced in the UK as we have some of the largest pharmaceuticals companies in the world.
Shaun, UK is offline   1 Reply With Quote
Old Jul 29, 2013, 05:17 PM   #55
apolloa
macrumors 68040
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Quote:
Originally Posted by nascimento View Post
There is no “Bull” in what I said both statements are a reality. Most of the hospital equipment is Indian/Asian made and nearly all the medicine is produced in those continents.

I never mentioned that the UK is incapable of either manufacturing/producing the equipment or nurturing capable doctors, nurses, health care workers, social services, etc. The fact is that you have been importing them for quite a long time. Don’t blame me, blame your politicians, universities (and yourself) for not organizing yourselves!
hahahaha, most of the medicine made in India and Assia hahaha. You carry on believing that if it makes you feel happy mate, shame you're wrong but never mind. As for the equipment, again plain wrong, Philips for instance manufactures in Europe and America, plus lets not forget the endless medical innovation carried out in Britain and Europe and America.
Don't go making the assumption everything on the planet is made in Assia.

And the only reason the UK has been importing anyone is due to blind idiotic short sighted governments, NOTHING to do with anything else and what I stated is exactly what YOU are implying sir.
And I DO blame the government, I believe I made that pretty clear in my previous post? And blame myself? Why? I don't really see the benefit in blaming myself for the stupid acts performed by governments? Not a very intelligent comment is it, based on no fact as again you are assuming things like maybe I voted the government in? You seem to make a lot of naive assumptions in your arguments.

Like assuming that the UK is incapable of supporting itself in medical help without importing it's doctors and nurses:

Quote:
Originally Posted by nascimento View Post
On the Human side you would not be able to have that service if you did not import doctors and nurses from other countries where wages are lower.
Yes, naive and assuming and also makes you out to be a bit of an arrogant elitist too.

Last edited by apolloa; Jul 29, 2013 at 05:28 PM.
apolloa is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Jul 29, 2013, 05:34 PM   #56
Shaun, UK
macrumors 68000
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Quote:
Originally Posted by linuxcooldude View Post
If you want things to change, what have YOU done to change them, besides passing the buck to someone else.
What exactly would you like me to do? At least I don't wring my hands and look the other way. As a shareholder I've made my views perfectly clear to Apple. But it takes media pressure to change things. I'm active in the human rights movement but that's off the topic.

The issue at hand is that by vigorously driving down manufacturing costs Apple is culpable in the inevitable poor working conditions and pay that Pegatron workers experience.

Are other companies doing the same? Yes almost certainly but this is a site about Apple.

Am I willing to pay more? Yes if necessary but I think Apple could feed some of their profits back into these suppliers to give the workers better conditions and pay.

Could I do more? Yes probably but I do what I can. My home is furnished with UK and European furniture, my electronics are mostly British or German, my car was manufactured in the UK.

It's in all our interests to raise wages and living standards in China. That way we might actually start manufacturing more goods in the US and Europe. More affluent Chinese consumers also represent a potentially large market for US and European products, helping to maintain our living standards.
Shaun, UK is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Jul 29, 2013, 06:22 PM   #57
linuxcooldude
macrumors 65816
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shaun, UK View Post
What exactly would you like me to do? At least I don't wring my hands and look the other way. As a shareholder I've made my views perfectly clear to Apple. But it takes media pressure to change things. I'm active in the human rights movement but that's off the topic.
Have you wrote to the Chinese government telling them your objections? Did you join any organizations for worker rights and made them aware of Chinese factory workers?

You should be making your views straight to the source. Why do you feel you must go through Apple to do this?

By saying only media pressure will make a difference is just avoiding the issue. If all these people so upset with Apple not doing anything about this, actually did something themselves, would probably have more impact.

Quote:
The issue at hand is that by vigorously driving down manufacturing costs Apple is culpable in the inevitable poor working conditions and pay that Pegatron workers experience.
Where do you think driving down costs originate from? The very consumers who buy the merchandise. Thats If you can convince the general public higher prices are needed in order to pay these factories higher prices and better working conditions.

Quote:
Am I willing to pay more? Yes if necessary but I think Apple could feed some of their profits back into these suppliers to give the workers better conditions and pay.
Profits are made on both sides. Its up to the employers to ensure its workers are being paid a fair wage. Apple could increase what they pay significantly, but nothing ensures that increase goes directly to its workers.
__________________
Techshow:http://www.justin.tv/linuxcooldude

Last edited by linuxcooldude; Jul 29, 2013 at 06:30 PM.
linuxcooldude is offline   1 Reply With Quote
Old Jul 29, 2013, 06:30 PM   #58
nascimento
macrumors regular
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Quote:
Originally Posted by apolloa View Post
hahahaha, most of the medicine made in India and Assia hahaha. You carry on believing that if it makes you feel happy mate, shame you're wrong but never mind. As for the equipment, again plain wrong, Philips for instance manufactures in Europe and America, plus lets not forget the endless medical innovation carried out in Britain and Europe and America.
Don't go making the assumption everything on the planet is made in Assia.

And the only reason the UK has been importing anyone is due to blind idiotic short sighted governments, NOTHING to do with anything else and what I stated is exactly what YOU are implying sir.
And I DO blame the government, I believe I made that pretty clear in my previous post? And blame myself? Why? I don't really see the benefit in blaming myself for the stupid acts performed by governments? Not a very intelligent comment is it, based on no fact as again you are assuming things like maybe I voted the government in? You seem to make a lot of naive assumptions in your arguments.

Like assuming that the UK is incapable of supporting itself in medical help without importing it's doctors and nurses:
Dont mix R&D with production and btw R&D is getting quite efficient in those countries. Keep believing that europe or the states actually make something... Next time your in the operating block have a look at where the tools were made!

At the moment the UK cant function without importing specialized health workers. No one (in the uk) wants to be a nurse and in some cases (like social services/studies) the UK has not got a university course. One of the many reasons you have been importing so many people. Nothing wrong with that as long as they are skilled workers.

Deviated from original story about apple supplier but its a symptom of our western world
nascimento is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Jul 29, 2013, 06:33 PM   #59
dazed
macrumors 6502a
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Quote:
Originally Posted by Intarweb View Post
I wonder if Shockwave is behind this. He's always wanted to get rid of Megatron.
I think that was starscream
dazed is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Jul 29, 2013, 07:31 PM   #60
Shaun, UK
macrumors 68000
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Quote:
Originally Posted by linuxcooldude View Post
Have you wrote to the Chinese government telling them your objections? Did you join any organizations for worker rights and made them aware of Chinese factory workers?

You should be making your views straight to the source. Why do you feel you must go through Apple to do this?

By saying only media pressure will make a difference is just avoiding the issue. If all these people so upset with Apple not doing anything about this, actually did something themselves, would probably have more impact.
You really don't understand how this works do you. Campaign groups release reports to the media who publicise the problems worldwide and Apple has to respond and do something. Maximum publicity equals maximum pressure on Apple. That's important because they have the power to change things.

Given the changes that Apple has already made at Foxconn I would say that our campaign is already working. We're not there yet but the more stories like this the more pressure Apple will feel and the more they will have to do something.

I'm not bothered about empty gestures like writing to the Chinese government. What are you - 12 or something?

We are doing something and it's working. That's all that matters to me.
Shaun, UK is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Jul 29, 2013, 07:59 PM   #61
linuxcooldude
macrumors 65816
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shaun, UK View Post
You really don't understand how this works do you. Campaign groups release reports to the media who publicise the problems worldwide and Apple has to respond and do something. Maximum publicity equals maximum pressure on Apple. That's important because they have the power to change things.
What campaign groups? Please specify. You keep on mentioning doing this & that to Apple, but rarely talk about China being the main problem. Apple is NOT the problem, China IS the problem.

Quote:
Given the changes that Apple has already made at Foxconn I would say that our campaign is already working. We're not there yet but the more stories like this the more pressure Apple will feel and the more they will have to do something.
You said "OUR" campaign but made no mention of exactly who and to what extent is your involvement for these chinese factory workers.

You expect someone else to fix the problem, so why are you not doing it yourself instead?

You are always talking about getting Apple involved, but what have you done to get YOURSELF involved?

Businesses, big or small, should not have to become political activists to make a living.

Quote:
We are doing something and it's working. That's all that matters to me.
The end justifies the means, is wrong on so many levels.
__________________
Techshow:http://www.justin.tv/linuxcooldude

Last edited by linuxcooldude; Jul 29, 2013 at 08:24 PM.
linuxcooldude is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Jul 30, 2013, 02:16 AM   #62
macs4nw
macrumors 68000
 
macs4nw's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: On Safari…..
Quote:
Originally Posted by Motawa View Post
I bet other companies do have better work conditions... Nah, it's just apple, I guess .
Quote:
Originally Posted by rmwebs View Post
Read the story. Nobody is accusing Apple of anything. Its a supplier, who just happen to supply Apple with a lot of stuff. I'm sure you'll see it reported elsewhere as "Chinese Labor Group Alleges Poor Working Conditions at <Insert Pegatron Customer> Supplier Pegatron".
So no. No its not "just apple"
But that's the whole point Motawa was trying to make; You don't seem to see the kinds of reports connecting other tech companies to those alleged worker exploitations. The report may be about the suppliers, but there's always that 'innocuous' mention of APPLE, ever so subtle, linking them to the problem.

Quote:
Originally Posted by madKIR View Post
Apple can come up with any crappy excuses and long letters trying to justify themselves.
The truth is they don't give a damn! All they care about is the margins: as long as the Chinese floks work for $2 per hour, they are happy!
It is hypocritical of us to blame APPLE, while we expect beautifully designed and built products to come our way, for as low as we can get them, while checking the stock market to see how well our AAPL shares are performing.

If APPLE is to blame for the poor working conditions in the Chinese factories, then by extension, so are all of us, who buy the products manufactured in those factories.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shaun, UK View Post
.....Apple should build their own factories and show what can be achieved.....
Are you willing, or even able, to pay significantly more for, not only your APPLE products, but everything else (clothing, household items, etc., etc.) that is manufactured in the developing world?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shaun, UK View Post
.....It's a shame that we no longer seem to have any large companies who believe in social responsibility and the welfare of their workers. It all seems to come down to squeezing the last penny of profit out of everything they do.
Blame the capitalist system, and our own greed, and insatiable lust for lower prices on just about everything we need to buy, as well as our unrealistic expectations of making a 'killing' in the stock market.

It's the shareholders of any given company (and that's those of us, who directly, or indirectly thru pension plans or other investments, hold a company's shares) who are the real puppet masters here. It's the CEOs who are between a-rock-and-a-hard-place. If they don't deliver 'the goods' for any length of time, they are simply replaced by the board of directors by another CEO, who WILL deliver the 'goods'.

If the working conditions in the Chinese factories are poor, that is something to be addressed by the Chinese government, and solutions to these problems should not be mandated by us, through no doubt, well-intentioned, but misguided interference in the internal affairs of another sovereign nation.
__________________
Due to my aversion to bragging and clichés, no words of wisdom to be found on this line.....
macs4nw is online now   0 Reply With Quote
Old Jul 30, 2013, 02:47 AM   #63
beaniemyman
Banned
 
Join Date: May 2013
thank god i live in US
beaniemyman is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Jul 30, 2013, 06:04 AM   #64
Intarweb
macrumors 6502a
 
Join Date: May 2007
Quote:
Originally Posted by dazed View Post
I think that was starscream
Both.
Intarweb is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Jul 30, 2013, 08:22 AM   #65
Shaun, UK
macrumors 68000
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Quote:
Originally Posted by macs4nw View Post
But that's the whole point Motawa was trying to make; You don't seem to see the kinds of reports connecting other tech companies to those alleged worker exploitations. The report may be about the suppliers, but there's always that 'innocuous' mention of APPLE, ever so subtle, linking them to the problem.

It is hypocritical of us to blame APPLE, while we expect beautifully designed and built products to come our way, for as low as we can get them, while checking the stock market to see how well our AAPL shares are performing.

If APPLE is to blame for the poor working conditions in the Chinese factories, then by extension, so are all of us, who buy the products manufactured in those factories.



Are you willing, or even able, to pay significantly more for, not only your APPLE products, but everything else (clothing, household items, etc., etc.) that is manufactured in the developing world?

Blame the capitalist system, and our own greed, and insatiable lust for lower prices on just about everything we need to buy, as well as our unrealistic expectations of making a 'killing' in the stock market.

It's the shareholders of any given company (and that's those of us, who directly, or indirectly thru pension plans or other investments, hold a company's shares) who are the real puppet masters here. It's the CEOs who are between a-rock-and-a-hard-place. If they don't deliver 'the goods' for any length of time, they are simply replaced by the board of directors by another CEO, who WILL deliver the 'goods'.

If the working conditions in the Chinese factories are poor, that is something to be addressed by the Chinese government, and solutions to these problems should not be mandated by us, through no doubt, well-intentioned, but misguided interference in the internal affairs of another sovereign nation.
Why are Chinese workers worth less to you than US workers? Apple should put pressure on it's supplier Pegatron to improve working conditions. Apple has the power to do that. Dare I say it Apple could even share out a little of its wealth in bonus payments to the factory workers who work hard to make their products. I don't think that's unreasonable. And yes I would be willing to pay more if necessary.

I've heard a lot of people mention that this problem should be sorted by the Chinese government. What planet are you on? The Chinese government is a totalitarian and brutal dictatorship. The Chinese people don't get to elect their leaders like we do in the west. The Chinese government couldn't give a monkeys nuts about their own people.

It's very lazy to rely on governments to change things. Consumers and big corporations have as much power to change things as any government.

----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by linuxcooldude View Post
The end justifies the means, is wrong on so many levels.
Totally disagree. Obviously we live by a different moral code.
Shaun, UK is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Jul 30, 2013, 12:25 PM   #66
linuxcooldude
macrumors 65816
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shaun, UK View Post
Dare I say it Apple could even share out a little of its wealth in bonus payments to the factory workers who work hard to make their products. I don't think that's unreasonable. And yes I would be willing to pay more if necessary.
But you don't know how much Apple is paying them. In fact it could actually be a great deal of money paid to them already.

And again, how do you know if that money would reach the lower level factory workers, even if Apple paid extra just to do that?!?

You always seem to avoid my questions you can't answer, which seems to be most of them.

Quote:
I've heard a lot of people mention that this problem should be sorted by the Chinese government. What planet are you on? The Chinese government is a totalitarian and brutal dictatorship. The Chinese people don't get to elect their leaders like we do in the west. The Chinese government couldn't give a monkeys nuts about their own people.
Great, you feel the plight of the chinese worker, but you expect someone else to take care of this while you do nothing.

Quote:
It's very lazy to rely on governments to change things. Consumers and big corporations have as much power to change things as any government.
It seems you are the lazy one not really doing anything about it but to condemn a company who actually helps to put food on their table.


Quote:
Totally disagree. Obviously we live by a different moral code.
How ironic you used the words moral code. I don't try to force other people to do what I want, I do it myself.

The chinese worker does have power in deciding their fate. If they don't like the conditions or pay they can find another job with another company. They are notorious for high turn over rates.
__________________
Techshow:http://www.justin.tv/linuxcooldude

Last edited by linuxcooldude; Jul 30, 2013 at 12:52 PM.
linuxcooldude is offline   1 Reply With Quote

Reply
MacRumors Forums > News and Article Discussion > MacRumors.com News Discussion

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 01:11 AM.

Mac Rumors | Mac | iPhone | iPhone Game Reviews | iPhone Apps

Mobile Version | Fixed | Fluid | Fluid HD
Copyright 2002-2013, MacRumors.com, LLC