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Old Oct 4, 2013, 11:54 AM   #26
tshrimp
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Had to delete this post. I didn't realize the link had a bad word in it. Sorry. Was wondering why the link was not working

But lets put it this way. The web page said the help number for Obamacare is 1-800-318-2596. Not sure if this is correct, but if it is see if you can find out what it spells.
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Old Oct 4, 2013, 12:00 PM   #27
citizenzen
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"Criminals" doesn't seem to fit exactly, but, I can't think what the right term is.
Profiteering?
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Old Oct 4, 2013, 06:29 PM   #28
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Profiteering?
Racketeering?

----------

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Originally Posted by Zombie Acorn View Post
Obamacare is socialized medicine in the same way that bank bailouts were socialized. Here is the dream if you are a corporation: "socialize your losses and hoard your profits". The banks did it and now the health insurance industry is going to as well.

Its taking an industry that has ****ed the American citizen for decades and saying "Hey, you've ****ed us over for decades, we are going to force everyone to sign up with you so that you behave better. Oh and those people who can't afford to pay you, we will cover it"
I wouldn't necessarily blame a party for this but it's obvious the big businesses have been pulling the strings here through lobbying and shall we say other methods.
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Old Oct 4, 2013, 06:48 PM   #29
citizenzen
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Racketeering?
But racketeering is a crime.

I know health insurance companies aren't popular, but I have to believe that if they were involved in organized crime that someone would try to prosecute them for it.
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Old Oct 4, 2013, 10:13 PM   #30
NickZac
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Yes, you MUST get health care or Obama will send drones after you!! And your taxes pay for drones.
This is the best post I have ever seen on this forum lol

Drones FTW!
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Old Oct 4, 2013, 11:01 PM   #31
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I wouldn't necessarily blame a party for this but it's obvious the big businesses have been pulling the strings here through lobbying and shall we say other methods.
This isn't a pioneering effort. 'Fixing' healthcare doesn't require innovation. There are dozens of long successful programs all over the world, and the people running them aren't hiding their methods like some kind of trade secret. If we want their results, all we have to do is copy their methods. Any approach short of these turnkey systems is accepting less then we could have for one reason or another. Failure to hit this obvious goal was a group effort. The voters, both parties, and the health industry. But it's hard to work together when everyone is looking out for themselves.
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Old Oct 5, 2013, 11:36 AM   #32
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This isn't a pioneering effort. 'Fixing' healthcare doesn't require innovation. There are dozens of long successful programs all over the world, and the people running them aren't hiding their methods like some kind of trade secret. If we want their results, all we have to do is copy their methods. Any approach short of these turnkey systems is accepting less then we could have for one reason or another. Failure to hit this obvious goal was a group effort. The voters, both parties, and the health industry. But it's hard to work together when everyone is looking out for themselves.
Actually, I'd blame the media, who gave actual airtime to the repubs' absurd claims that the public option meant "death panels".

As someone around here very astutely pointed out a few days back, private insurance "no, that's not covered" decisions much more closely resemble death panels than would what would have effectively been the option for anyone in the country to opt in or out of Medicare at any age.
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Old Oct 6, 2013, 04:51 PM   #33
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What is the correct term for a faceless bureaucracy that determines that a disease discovered middle age or later, because there is a congenital component or factor, is a "pre-existing condition" and therefore not covered?
"Insurance company executives."
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Old Oct 6, 2013, 07:17 PM   #34
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This isn't a pioneering effort. 'Fixing' healthcare doesn't require innovation. There are dozens of long successful programs all over the world, and the people running them aren't hiding their methods like some kind of trade secret. If we want their results, all we have to do is copy their methods. Any approach short of these turnkey systems is accepting less then we could have for one reason or another. Failure to hit this obvious goal was a group effort. The voters, both parties, and the health industry. But it's hard to work together when everyone is looking out for themselves.
This bothers me a great deal. Why is the US public so unwilling and so unable to look abroad for success? Whether it is health care, unions or any other thing that provides a social benefit, it seems as though most Americans appreciate little more than cart horses with blinkers.
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Old Oct 6, 2013, 09:54 PM   #35
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I might be wrong, but I think if your employer pays for healthcare, some of that comes out of your paycheck too. You wouldn't have to bother with any of the government plans.
Only if the healthcare offered by the employer meets the requirements of Obamacare. And that includes maternity coverage for everyone, regardless of gender.


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Old Oct 7, 2013, 02:53 PM   #36
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This bothers me a great deal. Why is the US public so unwilling and so unable to look abroad for success?
Because you're exceptional?
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Old Oct 8, 2013, 04:45 PM   #37
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This bothers me a great deal. Why is the US public so unwilling and so unable to look abroad for success? Whether it is health care, unions or any other thing that provides a social benefit, it seems as though most Americans appreciate little more than cart horses with blinkers.
It's not a rejection for rejection's sake and it's not dismissal of ideas from somewhere else. It's a philosophical choice, a rejection of ideas that don't mesh with how we see ourselves.

Americans seek strength, even when it means allowing weakness. We believe that only when anyone can loose everything, will everyone perform at their best. Only when failure means ruin, will people give everything for success. Only then can the group, can the nation, be the strongest possible.

This national spasm is part of a battle for the future identity of the USA. Do we continue allowing those who fail to fall or do we pick them up and risk loosing our strength?
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Old Oct 8, 2013, 05:13 PM   #38
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Well I'm not worried. I don't need to get healthcare. I have Veterans Healthcare.

wait a second ! ........
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Old Oct 11, 2013, 11:06 AM   #39
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Well I'm not worried. I don't need to get healthcare. I have Veterans Healthcare.

wait a second ! ........
well with the government shutdown, you might want to check to see if we aren't saving money by not giving you such a thing
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Old Oct 11, 2013, 11:32 AM   #40
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It's not a rejection for rejection's sake and it's not dismissal of ideas from somewhere else. It's a philosophical choice, a rejection of ideas that don't mesh with how we see ourselves.

Americans seek strength, even when it means allowing weakness. We believe that only when anyone can loose everything, will everyone perform at their best. Only when failure means ruin, will people give everything for success. Only then can the group, can the nation, be the strongest possible.

This national spasm is part of a battle for the future identity of the USA. Do we continue allowing those who fail to fall or do we pick them up and risk loosing our strength?
Yes, that is right. No more "safety net"! Allow those who fail to fall. And, if they don't have purely private healthcare somehow, let them die! (See 2012 Presidential debates for details.)

Yes, there is a philosophical difference between those who see this outcome in a positive light, and, those who see it in a negative light. I see this as an example of "reductio ad absurdum":

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reductio_ad_absurdum
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Old Oct 12, 2013, 09:21 AM   #41
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I'm not actually sure that it doesn't work. Maybe people do work harder when they drive past beggars on their commute. But I am sure that structurally, denying healthcare for the same reason doesn't actually work if those subjected to it still have access. We can't both say you have to work hard to be able to see a doctor and offer ERs that treat you regardless. But we have to be able to say we care for the less fortunate, even if it costs more than actually caring for them.
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Old Oct 12, 2013, 09:48 AM   #42
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It's not a rejection for rejection's sake and it's not dismissal of ideas from somewhere else. It's a philosophical choice, a rejection of ideas that don't mesh with how we see ourselves.

Americans seek strength, even when it means allowing weakness. We believe that only when anyone can loose everything, will everyone perform at their best. Only when failure means ruin, will people give everything for success. Only then can the group, can the nation, be the strongest possible.

This national spasm is part of a battle for the future identity of the USA. Do we continue allowing those who fail to fall or do we pick them up and risk loosing our strength?
What strength would you lose by finding a more efficient, comprehensive and affordable healthcare solution?
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Old Oct 12, 2013, 09:53 AM   #43
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Americans seek strength, even when it means allowing weakness. We believe that only when anyone can loose everything, will everyone perform at their best. Only when failure means ruin, will people give everything for success. Only then can the group, can the nation, be the strongest possible.
Normally I agree with your posts.

But I sure hope that isn't America.

I'd hate that country you just described.
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Old Oct 12, 2013, 10:20 AM   #44
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Sorry, I agree with both of you. But this is what we are dealing with.

When you look at all our national contradictions, this is what is underneath. When you hear the word 'socialist' and want to know what the speaker is afraid of, substitute 'weakness creating'. When you hear the word 'values' and want to know what the speaker is hoping for, substitute 'strengthening'.

Healthcare, guns, prisons, abortion, education, death penalty, homelessness/welfare, drug war. All of our biggest issues have the same two sides: 'help everyone succeed' vs 'make failure cost more'. Or in psychology terms, positive vs negative reinforcement.
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