Register FAQ / Rules Forum Spy Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read
Go Back   MacRumors Forums > Mac Community > Community Discussion > Politics, Religion, Social Issues

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old Dec 13, 2013, 12:17 PM   #51
63dot
macrumors 601
 
63dot's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Platte
Quote:
Originally Posted by chrono1081 View Post
I honestly don't take Libertarians seriously just like I don't take Conservatives seriously. Both have an extremely flawed viewpoint that boils down to "I got mine but screw everyone else unless I need something."

Pretty much all of my Lib friends think anarchy is a valid form of government, they think that there should be no social programs (even though they're employed on the state end of such programs), and that common sense things like safety features in vehicles are "government intrusion.".

It's hard to take people like that seriously.
Libertarianism is not all that well defined in people who side with it. Unlike a democratic party or republican party, there's no official platform that has any traction. The basic idea is fiscal conservatism and social liberalism. You can believe in a small government but also believe in legalization of drugs and gay marriage and not be conflicted. Libertarianism doesn't work with no government or anarchy. I side most with what is called green libertarianism but do have some GOP and democratic party stances. But regardless of your stance, it's pretty foolhardy to be against emergency services but also be cold hearted to deny one who needs it. The cartoons in the OP are ridiculous.

While we need government, both parties can be wasteful in government spending. The worst offenders are the GOP who says they believe in cutting back but spend just as much. Reagan got a libertarian type image from many but outspent Carter. His big deal getting in was to reverse spending.

Ron Paul talks a good libertarian stance but understands the need for some defense and emergency services. A Paul white house would probably not be that much different than either side and I don't think he would touch emergency services that much. It's often the question many ask about libertarian leaning politicians. They say one thing to purist libertarian base but do another if they get in. It's politics.
63dot is offline   1 Reply With Quote
Old Dec 17, 2013, 05:08 AM   #52
iMikeT
macrumors 68020
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: California
Quote:
Originally Posted by 63dot View Post
Libertarianism is not all that well defined in people who side with it. Unlike a democratic party or republican party, there's no official platform that has any traction. The basic idea is fiscal conservatism and social liberalism. You can believe in a small government but also believe in legalization of drugs and gay marriage and not be conflicted. Libertarianism doesn't work with no government or anarchy. I side most with what is called green libertarianism but do have some GOP and democratic party stances. But regardless of your stance, it's pretty foolhardy to be against emergency services but also be cold hearted to deny one who needs it. The cartoons in the OP are ridiculous.

While we need government, both parties can be wasteful in government spending. The worst offenders are the GOP who says they believe in cutting back but spend just as much. Reagan got a libertarian type image from many but outspent Carter. His big deal getting in was to reverse spending.

Ron Paul talks a good libertarian stance but understands the need for some defense and emergency services. A Paul white house would probably not be that much different than either side and I don't think he would touch emergency services that much. It's often the question many ask about libertarian leaning politicians. They say one thing to purist libertarian base but do another if they get in. It's politics.

So what I got from you is that there is no such thing as a real Libertarian.
iMikeT is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Dec 17, 2013, 05:13 AM   #53
63dot
macrumors 601
 
63dot's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Platte
Quote:
Originally Posted by iMikeT View Post
So what I got from you is that there is no such thing as a real Libertarian.
He, he, if you get two libertarians in a room, then...
63dot is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Dec 17, 2013, 05:30 AM   #54
iMikeT
macrumors 68020
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: California
Quote:
Originally Posted by 63dot View Post
He, he, if you get two libertarians in a room, then...

. Both will claim that the other isn't a real Libertarian.
iMikeT is offline   1 Reply With Quote
Old Dec 17, 2013, 10:01 AM   #55
63dot
macrumors 601
 
63dot's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Platte
Quote:
Originally Posted by iMikeT View Post
…. Both will claim that the other isn't a real Libertarian.
The only libertarian I know of is my good friend who "pointed" out the libertarian ideas which I had and tried to recruit me. While I tend more towards the green party, I don't fit their either even though they are not that well defined either. We pretty much determined I was green libertarian.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Green_libertarianism

What I do admire about libertarians is their commitment to making things better and actually giving a damn. What I don't like is an intolerance to different shades within the party. One may say they are for a military for self-defense but another will be appalled and think that there should be no military (like Bhutan) and if you live and let live there only needs to be a local police presence. But then another will say no police are necessary, etc, etc!
63dot is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Dec 17, 2013, 01:35 PM   #56
EvilQueen
macrumors regular
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: In my own world
Quote:
Originally Posted by chrono1081 View Post
I honestly don't take Libertarians seriously just like I don't take Conservatives seriously. Both have an extremely flawed viewpoint that boils down to "I got mine but screw everyone else unless I need something."

Pretty much all of my Lib friends think anarchy is a valid form of government, they think that there should be no social programs (even though they're employed on the state end of such programs), and that common sense things like safety features in vehicles are "government intrusion.".

It's hard to take people like that seriously.
Y a know who I don't take seriously? People that don't take others with different views seriously.
EvilQueen is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Dec 17, 2013, 05:50 PM   #57
Sydde
macrumors 68000
 
Sydde's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Quote:
Originally Posted by EvilQueen View Post
Ya know who I don't take seriously? People that don't take others with different views seriously.
I have a friend whose view is that a galactic emperor rounded up billions of people, brought them here (he called this here planet "Teegeack") 75 million years ago and nuked them to death in volcanos on Hawaii and the Canaries, and those people's souls swarm the earth and crawl all over our bodies to this day, and we all should be having therapy to deal with the psychic problems they cause us.

But I take him seriously because, well, you know, it is deplorable not to take people seriously.

__________________
You got to be a spirit. You can't be no ghost.
Sydde is online now   3 Reply With Quote
Old Dec 17, 2013, 06:11 PM   #58
chown33
macrumors 603
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sydde View Post
I have a friend whose view is that a galactic emperor rounded up billions of people, brought them here (he called this here planet "Teegeack") 75 million years ago and nuked them to death in volcanos on Hawaii and the Canaries, and those people's souls swarm the earth and crawl all over our bodies to this day, and we all should be having therapy to deal with the psychic problems they cause us.

But I take him seriously because, well, you know, it is deplorable not to take people seriously.

You left an "e" out of Teegeeack.

Bad spalling is a good weigh to not be taken serous, ore sew I've ben tolled.

Last edited by chown33; Dec 17, 2013 at 06:11 PM. Reason: affix spalling
chown33 is offline   2 Reply With Quote
Old Dec 17, 2013, 07:52 PM   #59
Sydde
macrumors 68000
 
Sydde's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Quote:
Originally Posted by chown33 View Post
You left an "e" out of Teegeeack.

Bad spalling is a good weigh to not be taken serous, ore sew I've ben tolled.
Sorry, I ain't red incident III in a spell.

They keep telling me I am spelling "glibertarian" wrong, but never seem to get it right.
__________________
You got to be a spirit. You can't be no ghost.
Sydde is online now   0 Reply With Quote
Old Dec 18, 2013, 06:55 AM   #60
EvilQueen
macrumors regular
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: In my own world
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sydde View Post
I have a friend whose view is that a galactic emperor rounded up billions of people, brought them here (he called this here planet "Teegeack") 75 million years ago and nuked them to death in volcanos on Hawaii and the Canaries, and those people's souls swarm the earth and crawl all over our bodies to this day, and we all should be having therapy to deal with the psychic problems they cause us.

But I take him seriously because, well, you know, it is deplorable not to take people seriously.

That's what I expected from you.
EvilQueen is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Dec 18, 2013, 09:50 AM   #61
PracticalMac
macrumors 68020
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Failure of schools not teaching how society works and how to work with it.

While Math and English are important, knowing how to work the municipal system, courts, justice, and such is equally important.


As to OP, offer up Rescue Insurance.
If you don't pay for it, then the emergency services are not required to save you (a few places actually do this).
__________________
FireWire 1394 Intelligent network guaranteed data transfer, 1500mA power, Ethernet compatible
Read: 160 files, 650MB total, FW400 70% faster then USB2
Write: 160 files, 650MB total, FW400 48% faster
PracticalMac is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Dec 18, 2013, 06:21 PM   #62
chrono1081
macrumors 604
 
chrono1081's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Isla Nublar
Quote:
Originally Posted by EvilQueen View Post
Y a know who I don't take seriously? People that don't take others with different views seriously.
Different views are one thing, illogical and poorly thought out different views are another.
__________________
Mac Pro (2010): 3.33Ghz Intel Xeon (6 core) - 24 GB RAM - NVidia Quadro k5000
Macbook Air (2010): 2.13 Ghz Intel Core 2 Duo - 4GB RAM
chrono1081 is offline   4 Reply With Quote
Old Dec 19, 2013, 10:36 AM   #63
splitpea
macrumors 6502a
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Among the starlings
Quote:
Originally Posted by PracticalMac View Post
As to OP, offer up Rescue Insurance.
If you don't pay for it, then the emergency services are not required to save you (a few places actually do this).
Which goes back to the problem that there is such a thing as a social good, which certain types of Libertarians don't seem to understand.

If rescue services work an an insurance basis and your neighbor doesn't have fire insurance, your house is at greater risk of catching fire and needing repairs when the firemen don't respond to a fire at his house and it spreads to yours.

If your neighbor doesn't have access to health services, then you're more exposed to infection when there's an outbreak.

And when you're hit by a car or have a heart attack, do you really want the EMTs to waste 15 minutes making sure the people who called 911 find your ID and figure out whether you've subscribed to ambulance services before they start driving out to hook you up to life support?
__________________
What's the point of a sig showing the system I owned in 2006?
splitpea is offline   3 Reply With Quote
Old Dec 20, 2013, 12:52 AM   #64
PracticalMac
macrumors 68020
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Quote:
Originally Posted by splitpea View Post
Which goes back to the problem that there is such a thing as a social good, which certain types of Libertarians don't seem to understand.

If rescue services work an an insurance basis and your neighbor doesn't have fire insurance, your house is at greater risk of catching fire and needing repairs when the firemen don't respond to a fire at his house and it spreads to yours.

If your neighbor doesn't have access to health services, then you're more exposed to infection when there's an outbreak.

And when you're hit by a car or have a heart attack, do you really want the EMTs to waste 15 minutes making sure the people who called 911 find your ID and figure out whether you've subscribed to ambulance services before they start driving out to hook you up to life support?
Agree with every point.

I guess they are so used to it they cant imagine what it is like without it.
__________________
FireWire 1394 Intelligent network guaranteed data transfer, 1500mA power, Ethernet compatible
Read: 160 files, 650MB total, FW400 70% faster then USB2
Write: 160 files, 650MB total, FW400 48% faster
PracticalMac is offline   0 Reply With Quote
Old Dec 24, 2013, 05:51 PM   #65
skunk
macrumors Demi-God
 
skunk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Republic of Ukistan
Quote:
Originally Posted by EvilQueen View Post
Y a know who I don't take seriously? People that don't take others with different views seriously.
There are some views that do not merit serious consideration.
__________________
"The louder he talked of his honor, the faster we counted the spoons." -- Ralph Waldo Emerson
skunk is offline   2 Reply With Quote
Old Dec 25, 2013, 01:40 AM   #66
ElectronGuru
macrumors 6502a
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Oregon, USA
Quote:
Originally Posted by PracticalMac View Post
I guess they are so used to it they cant imagine what it is like without it.
I'm starting to see this everywhere. We get so used to the support (which has in some cases been in place for several generations), we've lost sight of what it even looks like without it.

Watched a documentary on invasive species. Spend a couple million per year trying to block this or that threat, that once in would cause billions in damage and cost billions more to eradicate. Can't imagine trying to do either, privately.
__________________
MBP, IM, MM, IPM, IP, AT
ElectronGuru is offline   0 Reply With Quote


Reply
MacRumors Forums > Mac Community > Community Discussion > Politics, Religion, Social Issues

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 01:01 AM.

Mac Rumors | Mac | iPhone | iPhone Game Reviews | iPhone Apps

Mobile Version | Fixed | Fluid | Fluid HD
Copyright 2002-2013, MacRumors.com, LLC