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Old Apr 21, 2013, 04:32 PM   #26
Liquinn
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Originally Posted by AT06 View Post
Canon make two types of lenses for their DSLR's - EF lenses and EF-S lenses.

EF-S lenses will work on crop body cameras only and not full frame ones like the 5D, 6D and 1D.

EF lenses will work on both crop body cameras like the 60D and 700D, and with full frame cameras.

The reason I wouldn't get the 18-55mm is that, at least for me, I found that I wanted to upgrade it very quickly. The 50mm f1.8 has superb optics for the price, and it forces you to concentrate on moving around to get the right framing and composition.
But earlier in the thread you said I should get the "700D" :P

I just wondered whether those two lenses work with 6D, 600D and the 700D - so if I do buy another camera in the future, it would work.

Should I ask the college whether the 6D would be a suitable camera to have for the foundation degree course - before I make the purchase?

Which of these lenses will work with these cameras?

Canon EF-S Zoom Lens 18 mm - 55 mm - f/3.5-5.6 IS MK
Canon EF 50 mm f/1.8 II Lens

Canon 60D, 600D and Canon 700D

What works together and what doesn't? Thanks.

Cheers.
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Old Apr 21, 2013, 04:49 PM   #27
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But earlier in the thread you said I should get the "700D" :P

I just wondered whether those two lenses work with 6D, 600D and the 700D - so if I do buy another camera in the future, it would work.

Should I ask the college whether the 6D would be a suitable camera to have for the foundation degree course - before I make the purchase?

Which of these lenses will work with these cameras?

Canon EF-S Zoom Lens 18 mm - 55 mm - f/3.5-5.6 IS MK
Canon EF 50 mm f/1.8 II Lens

Canon 60D, 600D and Canon 700D

What works together and what doesn't? Thanks.

Cheers.
Both of those lenses work with the 700D, the 600D and 60D.

Earlier i said the 700D, but I didn't think of the 60D and after having a look at the specs and prices I think the 60D is the better camera - especially with the 65 cashback.

At the end of the day, all of those cameras will produce very similar results in terms of image quality. The glass, and your skill and imagination are the larger factors.
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Old Apr 21, 2013, 04:50 PM   #28
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Both of those lenses work with the 700D, the 600D and 60D.

Earlier i said the 700D, but I didn't think of the 60D and after having a look at the specs and prices I think the 60D is the better camera - especially with the 65 cashback.

At the end of the day, all of those cameras will produce very similar results in terms of image quality. The glass, and your skill and imagination are the larger factors.
I think I like the sound of the 6D the most.

It's cheaper to buy the body only and I can buy the lenses as I need them.

Should I make the purchase tomorrow?

A bit strange Amazon are selling the 6D with a lens but it's cheaper to buy it separately, why do they do that?

What happens if I want to buy a lens that's not made for the 6D?

Where can I find lenses on Amazon to buy for the 6D?

Thanks.
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Last edited by Liquinn; Apr 21, 2013 at 05:01 PM.
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Old Apr 21, 2013, 05:06 PM   #29
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I would wait until a few more people post their opinions - I think the 60D is an excellent value camera at the moment, but others may make a few points that make you want a different camera.

To find lenses, just type into Anazon "Canon EF lens" or "Canon EF-S lens".

Do you understand the terms focal length, aperture, depth of field, ISO, shutter speed, and bokeh?
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Old Apr 21, 2013, 06:07 PM   #30
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If you are not scared to buy from a grey dealer on fleabay, you can pick up a 60D for $630 (Australian). I got one for $599 at the beginning of the year, including 2 day delivery from Hong Kong.

I'd recommend the 60D straight out, it has a lot more features and much better build quality over the newer entry level bodies.
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Old Apr 21, 2013, 07:35 PM   #31
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And a much better viewfinder as well: The xxxD series uses pentamirrors while the x0D uses pentaprisms which are also bigger. This is unfortunately something that often doesn't make it to the feature frontpage.
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Old Apr 21, 2013, 09:38 PM   #32
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I'd go with the 600d or the 60d. The 700d doesn't offer much over those two. It has better focus during video with STM lenses and comes with a new kit zoom. While the the improvement on the zoom is nice, it isn't worth the price. The sad thing about Canon is that the sensor in the sensor hasn't changed since the original 7d (sept 2009), 550d(feb 2010) and 60d(aug 2010).

This means that you should expect to get basically the same results from all of Canon's crop sensor cameras (excluding the 1100d series which uses another design). The main thing that changes between these cameras is the AF system, the viewfinder, the build quality and burst rate.

The 600d was a nice upgrade to the 550d, tillable screen and better AF. However, the 650D only brought better live view AF which isn't all the useful. And as far as I can tell, concerning the body, the 700d only brings creative filter that are previewed in Live View. Which is probably useless for most. However, it will come with a better kit zoom lens.

The 60d offers quite a bit over the 600d and 700d, better build quality, better button layout, better viewfinder and a much better burst rate. These might not seem like much but make the world of a difference if you're using your camera every day.

I won't bother telling you about the 7d, it's out of your price range but it's basically a pro camera, it's built to last, resists to weather, has a ridiculous burst rate and much more advanced focusing system.

Also, in your last posts you keep mentioning the 6d. I'm not sure if you're doing a typo and mean the 60d or really talk about the 6d. The 6d is a very different beast to the bodies I mentioned above. It has a much larger full frame sensor. It sets it in a different category, it can only use EF lenses but has much better image quality (to keep things short). Much better camera, but much more expensive too.

IMHO, the 600d and 60d are the best buys. However, Canon is expected to launch an upgrade to the 7d/60d and this will likely come with a new sensor that will probably then see trickle down to the 750d. Those cameras will probably have better image quality (resolution, low light performance, dynamic range). That being said, the more you wait, the more the price on the 60d will drop. The 60d is a better choice over the 600d if you'll be using your camera every day, shooting a lot and see more use. The 700d doesn't really bring you anything over the 600d and 60d, you might as well get the older bodies and trade that name plate for some shiny new lenses.
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Old Apr 21, 2013, 10:02 PM   #33
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The 6D is a full frame camera, and quite new on the market. It's placed just below the line of professional cameras, and right now canon is selling a huge number of them. A new body costs around $1,800 at Amazon. Some sellers are offering this camera with a lens, but not all of these lenses are of the L series. Canon's L lenses are more expensive (better glass) than non-L lenses, although there are a few exceptions. Some vendors offer a lens with the camera, and usually this lens is more expensive (perhaps around $200.00) is you buy the lens separate from the camera.

Just keep in mind that if you buy a FF camera such as the 6D, or 5DII and III, you can only use EF Canon lenses, no EF-S lenses. The latter are specifically designed for cropped sensors such as the one in the 20D, 30D, 40D, 50D, 7D, the ones you are interested on (600 and 700D), and a few other cameras.

So, cameras with cropped sensors can use both types of lenses (EF and EF-S), while FF ones such as the 6D use EF lenses only. But aftermarket lens manufacturers (Tokina, Sigma, and Tamron) offer their own version of lenses to be used on either FF or cropped-sensor cameras.

If you plan to take photos in low light conditions, then nothing out there except for a very small number of top of the line cameras can beat the 6D, but you will need to buy a good lens for it, and depending on which lens you buy for it the price will be a lot higher than $1,800.

To see a long list of lenses and prices, you can go to the link below:
http://photography-on-the.net/forum/...d.php?t=141406
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Old Apr 21, 2013, 10:22 PM   #34
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OP seems to be "asking for advice", and then only taking the advice that lines up with the opinion they've already seem to have come up with before asking. Pretty sure the thread should be re-titled "Help me justify spending more on the 700D".

Personally I'd say that the feature difference between the 600D and the 700D probably doesn't warrant the price difference, particularly when that price difference could be spent on better glass.
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Old Apr 22, 2013, 01:47 AM   #35
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OP - do you understand all the basic photography terms:

Aperture
Composition
Contrast
Depth of field
Exposure
F-Numbers
Focal Length
Framing
ISO
Saturation
Shutter speed

If you don't understand all of these, then I wouldn't advise buying a new camera just yet. I'd get two books:

Digital Photography Masterclass - Tom Ang
Understanding Exposure (3rd Edition) - Bryan Peterson

These will give you a good understanding of all these terms, and will aid you in making a more informed choice about your camera - and realise that newer doesn't always mean better
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Old Apr 22, 2013, 06:37 AM   #36
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Ah - I was only asking because really, the camera isn't the most important factor in the image. The photographer is obviously the most important, and then second is the glass.
Photographer is irrelevant in this case. We are comparing camera's. Not the artistic result of it.
First is the camera sensor, because that is what you buy with a DSLR. Compare it to the old day. You choose your type of film rol and stick with it for 3-4 years in the Digital world.
Second is the software workflow. NX2 can make a lot of bad glass pictures look awesome (thanks Bayer filter!) where Lightroom can waste a lot of good glass images.
Third is the brand you hop onto. You don't want to fool around every year. You can always ditch a bad lens, but it is a lot harder to switch camps.
Fourth might be the lens.
All combined, Nikon wins at the moment. The in-camera image processing, and the possibility to use NX2, combined with the better sensors make it easy anno 2013. Both Nikon and Canon have awesome glass options, at least much more than Sony for example, the other brand with good sensors.

----------

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If you don't understand all of these, then I wouldn't advise buying a new camera just yet.
Isn't the college the op wants to attend for that?
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Old Apr 22, 2013, 07:13 AM   #37
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Before you commit to buying anything I think you need to talk to the college you will be attending. You need to find out what, if any, equipment will be available for you to rent/borrow and take off site, especially lenses. DOes the college have a list of cameras it recommends for students in your situation?

You also need to know what kind of photography you will be using your own camera for, rather than college equipment. Will you be required to use your own equipment for studio work? Will you be required to explore documentary or photojournalism? What type of photography are you interested in exploring for yourself, would you like to do as a career? What I am getting at is what requirements will you need from a camera? Fast AF, high ISO, low flash sync?

Until you have this information I don't think you can make an informed decision as to which camera body is best for you to buy at the moment. Personally, I would say commit as little as possible financially, until you have a more definite idea of a feature, or features you require from a camera body and/or lens. The 600D will be fine for learning the fundamentals of a DSLR and the principles of photography.
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Old Apr 22, 2013, 07:49 AM   #38
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Isn't the college the op wants to attend for that?
I don't see how not knowing these basic photographic terms and principles, especially before spending around 600, won't be beneficial. Before I started my Government and Politics A2 Course, and my other A-Levels, I made sure I had at least some understanding of the key definitions and principles we would be covering in the course. This definately benefitted me as where others didnt have a clue, I at least had some prior knowledge to aid my understanding.

Never rush into a purchase without prior reading - in this case get an understanding of the basic terms, and then it will be slightly easier to explain the benefits of each camera. Also talk to the college to get an idea of the types of projects you will be doing.
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Old Apr 22, 2013, 12:45 PM   #39
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I'll try one more attempt at saying I would really wait before you regret spending a lot of money.

You seem to not even be able to grasp the names of the cameras as you have thrown around a 70D (a yet unreleased camera, probably this week though) and the 6D a full frame camera way outside of your budget.

What is currently holding you back with your P&S camera. Once you start figuring out what is limiting you in your photography you will be able to make the best decision.

You seem to be rushing into a decision that really doesn't need to be made for a while. Just coming out of being a student it will be a long time until you have this sort of money to buy another camera so you will want to make sure you get it right first time!
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Old Apr 26, 2013, 11:53 AM   #40
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I know it's DigitalRev (who's reviews are entertaining, but generally nt that informative) but here's a link to a video they just posted about the 700D vs 600D.

http://youtu.be/oNyuP98KO3A
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Old Apr 27, 2013, 12:52 PM   #41
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iv got the 600d, i use it more for video to be honest, but i like to take pics with it now and again, to be honest, theres no point whatsoever getting the 700d with the 600d pretty much the same and cheaper, plus at the 700d's price point its likely to drop in price pretty quick and being overtaken by another camera with similar specs, you should really forget about the 700d unless you have cash to splash, which even then youd be going for the 5dmk 2 or 3, even the 7d is going to drop in price with the mk 2 around the corner.

what you should be asking yourself, is a crappy touch screen which is only really suited for video recording, worth the extra dosh when it could go to better accessories or lenses?

personally get the 600d and get better lenses.. 700d is nice, but not worth the price.
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Old May 5, 2013, 08:12 PM   #42
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I bought the 700D last week and so far it's brilliant. As well as the kit lens I bought the Tamron 75-300mm macro lens which for 99 is really good.
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Old May 6, 2013, 09:55 AM   #43
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Repeat after me:

Bodies are disposable, glass is an investment.

That said, the triple-digit (Rebel) series cameras lack something I find critical when using the double- and single-digit EOS bodies: dedicated physical controls for shutter speed and aperture.

While you can manage both, independently, on the 600/700/etc, it's much more awkward to perform the task while the camera is raised to your eye.

This may seem like shameless self-promotion (it isn't -- my site has zero ads), but I think this is well-worth a read, considering you don't currently own a DSLR: http://thephotosmith.com/2013/01/25/...hammer-a-nail/
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Old May 6, 2013, 12:04 PM   #44
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Repeat after me:

Bodies are disposable, glass is an investment.

That said, the triple-digit (Rebel) series cameras lack something I find critical when using the double- and single-digit EOS bodies: dedicated physical controls for shutter speed and aperture.

While you can manage both, independently, on the 600/700/etc, it's much more awkward to perform the task while the camera is raised to your eye.

This may seem like shameless self-promotion (it isn't -- my site has zero ads), but I think this is well-worth a read, considering you don't currently own a DSLR: http://thephotosmith.com/2013/01/25/...hammer-a-nail/
im confused, why is it difficult to change?
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Old May 7, 2013, 05:40 AM   #45
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im confused, why is it difficult to change?
Once you invest thousands into good glass for one platform (say Canon) it just takes a lot of time to change as you have to sell all your current gear to buy all new gear for a different platform.

It's usually not worth the effort (or expense) to change as the differences in quality between the major manufacturers are negligible to say the least (q large debate on Canon vs Nikon ).
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Old May 7, 2013, 06:06 AM   #46
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Once you invest thousands into good glass for one platform (say Canon) it just takes a lot of time to change as you have to sell all your current gear to buy all new gear for a different platform.

It's usually not worth the effort (or expense) to change as the differences in quality between the major manufacturers are negligible to say the least (q large debate on Canon vs Nikon ).
i think you misread lol

he was talking about changing aperture shutter speed etc.

but you are right in what your saying.
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Old May 7, 2013, 07:47 AM   #47
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i think you misread lol

he was talking about changing aperture shutter speed etc.

but you are right in what your saying.
Yep - completely misread it

Changing Aperture and shutter speed on the Rebels is difficult as you have only one scroll wheel. To change what that scroll wheel does, you have to hold down a button on the back of the camera - which is very cumbersome when you have the camera held to your eye.
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