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Old Jan 10, 2013, 08:01 AM   #76
DodgeV83
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Quote:
Originally Posted by torana355 View Post
The problem with those stats are they include all Android phones that log onto the google playstore, these include much older phones from before the screen size increase trend that we are seeing today. If you were to compile stats on all Android Phones sold in the last year it would paint a very different picture and one that supports that the market is heavily swaying towards larger screens. imo Apple NEED to make a larger screen iphone and i would bet it will happen soon, Apple are not stupid. Just look at the sales of the new Ipad Mini, a size that Apple said they would never make...
This is correct, and the analysis in the post you quoted did not reflect this. The analysis in the next post, however, did reflect this. Assuming the source quoting 29% from eyespii is correct, the iPhone is still currently outselling all large screened Android phones combined.
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Old Jan 10, 2013, 08:23 AM   #77
DodgeV83
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Originally Posted by eyespii View Post
A couple more thoughts -

The argument presented that large screen phones increased in share from 23% - 29% over two years is misleading, because the definition of large screens changed from 2010 - 2012. In the 2010 study, large screen was anything above 4", and in the 2012 study, it was 4.5". So to say that it was only a 5% increase over two years is misleading. You'd have to compare 4"+ screens in 2010 vs 2012, a difference which would most certainly be much more than 5%.

Also, while its true that the majority of smartphones sold today are smaller than 4.5" (70% according to the last link), this doesn't mean that the future trend is towards phones smaller than 4.5". Smaller screens are generally less expensive to make and to buy, so what we are likely seeing is that most people (esp in developing countries) are price sensitive, therefore can only afford smaller screen phones.

And this is the big issue for apple. The idea in contention here is that apple "will be left in the dust" if they don't increase their screen size soon. This is a legitimate concern, cause many people equate smaller screens with "less expensive" and "cheap". apple isn't playing for the cheap low-cost phone market, and has never been about cheap. The $650 Phone is held up next to phones like the gs3, razr maxx, nexus 4, and droid DNA, all of which have screens larger than the iPhone and cost around $600 (except the n4). Sure, the iphone is selling well but remember that apple themselves increased the size of their flagship too. And the competition for the high end market is getting bigger screens month by month, which I'm sure apple isn't ignoring.
I agree, the 5% number is misleading. I led into that paragraph with a big disclaimer saying these numbers "aren't directly comparable to show a growing trend" for that reason. I was just using the numbers you gave me.

I don't disagree with anything you've posted. The OP however is claiming:

"The market is CLEARLY moving towards big (5 inch plus) 1080p screens on smart phones. Apple will be left in the dust if they keep offering 2011 screens into the future."

The "Apple left in the dust" part is his/her opinion, and thus I don't take much issue with it in isolation. However, the claim about the market moving towards 5+ inch 1080p screens is a factual statement that has yet to be substantiated. If it is on that basis that he/she makes the analysis that "Apple will be left in the dust", it is easy to strike down.

Note, that does not mean the claim won't happen. It is very well possible that Apple will be left in the dust. Spungoflex just has no basis to make that claim.
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Old Jan 10, 2013, 08:25 AM   #78
iHailCarlo
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They could very easily, but i don't want one. Its still a phone to me, 4 inches is enough.
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Old Jan 10, 2013, 08:37 AM   #79
DodgeV83
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Originally Posted by kdarling View Post
"It's on the internet. It must be true!"

This is such a common myth. We've been over this so many times before. My apologies; I'm just out of hospital and a bit tired. For now, I beg you to do an advanced search on the topic. Just plug in my name and a keyword like "inventory" or "channel".

To start, here's an old post with a Business Insider source explaining why Apple includes store sales.

Also, read this post quoting Tim Cook admitting when their sales figures were over by millions because of too much sell-in to stores and not enough sell-through to end users.



Thanks, I'll contact and correct the young girl blogger who wrote that article.

In the meantime, read this post of mine with multiple CNN Money sources pointing out that even those first weekend iPhone sales numbers included shipments to retailers and carriers.
You are correct. Just because Apple includes channel sales in their reporting, however, does not mean they carry the same weight. I've read that the vast majority (can't seem to find a source at the moment) of iPhone sales take place directly from Apple. This helped give Apple retail stores the highest revenue per square foot of any store in the United States, doubling the second highest store, and tripling the third highest store.

Samsung, in comparison, does not have any real retail presence at all in the US. Even online, if you try to buy a smartphone from Samsung.com, it gives you a link to Best Buy.
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Old Jan 10, 2013, 09:24 AM   #80
kdarling
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Originally Posted by DodgeV83 View Post
You are correct. Just because Apple includes channel sales in their reporting, however, does not mean they carry the same weight. I've read that the vast majority (can't seem to find a source at the moment) of iPhone sales take place directly from Apple.
There are a LOT more carrier stores around the world than Apple stores.

Quote:
"Apple sold just 21 percent of iPhones purchased between December 2011 and August 2012, according to a study by Consumer Intelligence Research Partners (CIRP). Indeed, AT&T outlets sold 28 percent and Verizon sold 26 percent of iPhones. Sprint recently said it sold more iPhones than Apple Stores."

"As for iPads, Best Buy and Amazon combined sold nearly as many as Apple’s 250 US stores.

"Mac sales was the only segment Apple Stores dominate, selling 47 percent of computers during the period, according to CIRP figures. Retail giant Best Buy was the next closest, selling 27 percent.

"It’s easy to forget Apple has relatively few retail stores."

- Majority of iPhone sales NOT from Apple stores
That looks like just in the US, but this where buying direct from Apple should be the highest percentage, I'd think.
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Old Jan 12, 2013, 12:34 AM   #81
Spungoflex
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Originally Posted by DodgeV83 View Post
This is the first source you have added to the conversation.
At least you finally admitted you were wrong. Good to see.

Then again, the trend was never really up for debate in the first place.
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Old Jan 12, 2013, 02:23 AM   #82
DodgeV83
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Originally Posted by Spungoflex View Post
At least you finally admitted you were wrong. Good to see.

Then again, the trend was never really up for debate in the first place.
One sentence after your truncated quote of my post:

Unfortunately, it does not apply to the assertion you made to start the thread.
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Old Jan 12, 2013, 07:24 AM   #83
kevink2
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Originally Posted by Spungoflex View Post
Could they do that without causing app compatibility issues? In 2013, a 3.5" screen on a smart phone is comical. Even 4" is pushing the limits. Mark my words, in 5 years the standard screen size for smart phone will be over 5 inches.
I don't see technical reasons.

They could probably find a way to put cellular voice support in an iPad Mini too, and really one up the competition. And there shouldn't be any app compatibility problems with doing that.

----------

An issue for me with future larger phones is pocket size.

I prefer to keep my phone in my shirt pocket. My pants pockets are used for wallet and keys. Leaving no room for the phone unless I put it in the back pocket and sat on it.

And even the iPhone 5 (with case) sticks out the top now on some shirts.
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Old Jan 12, 2013, 09:28 PM   #84
Spungoflex
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Originally Posted by DodgeV83 View Post
One sentence after your truncated quote of my post:
Everyone knew you were wrong from the start anyway. You didn't have much of a leg to stand on considering even apple's trend is towards larger screens.

It's good you finally admitted defeat.
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Old Jan 12, 2013, 11:30 PM   #85
DodgeV83
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Originally Posted by Spungoflex View Post
Everyone knew you were wrong from the start anyway. You didn't have much of a leg to stand on considering even apple's trend is towards larger screens.

It's good you finally admitted defeat.
During the course of this debate the debate, evidence has been shown that the iPhone is still the overwhelming best seller compared to all large screened Android phones combined, and that this ratio is growing. This directly contradicts your claim that the market is CLEARLY moving towards big (5 inch plus) 1080p screens on smart phones.

Do you have any evidence to refute this?

I'm sorry, but this whole debate reminds me of that great Family Guy scene:



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Old Jan 13, 2013, 01:23 AM   #86
Spungoflex
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Originally Posted by DodgeV83 View Post
During the course of this debate...
There was never a debate. You said something that was clearly wrong from the get go. Everyone realized it and we moved on days ago after you admitted you were wrong.
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Old Jan 13, 2013, 10:02 AM   #87
beosound3200
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a quick question

does anybody here think that the 4.8+ trend we're experiencing now with android manufacturers is a result of a single reason - their inability to compete with apple hardware/benchmark/battery wise in the same form factor?

iphone 5 vs galaxy s3 mini anyone?

if they were indeed pursuing the 'right size' would this be happening:

galaxy s - 4.0

galaxy s2 - 4.3

galaxy s3 - 4.8

galaxy s4 - 5.0 (rumors)

engineers and designers at samsung change their mind very quickly

where does it stop?

the thing is, there's no viable alternative for iphone in under 4.5 inch segment. as a result, if you dont want an iphone, you gotta buy 4.8 incher, so i would take that 'larger screen trend' with a grain of salt, actually a ******** of it

the point is, most buyers of high end smartphones dont necessarily want a bigger screen, but they have no other option if they dont want an iphone

its interesting, in its size segment, iphone is easily the best phone in the world. imagine what would they do with 5.0 inches... i hope they dont

just my humble opinion

Last edited by beosound3200; Jan 13, 2013 at 10:11 AM.
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Old Jan 13, 2013, 10:16 AM   #88
maxosx
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Apple could easily make an iPhone in any size.

It's their obsession with thin & tiny that clouds their ability to think differently. A position that is widely supported by those programmed to agree with Apple without thinking for themselves.

The proofs in the massive sales. That's the legacy Jobs left behind. Hoards of users programmed to his liking.

A tiny iPhone is fine now that we have an iPad mini. I use mine for everything I used to do on my iPhone with exception of calls which I do very little of.

The iPad mini is a great smartphone replacement, with lots of room to type easier, see more on the web without the extreme amount of scrolling dictated by the tiny iPhone screen. I'll keep my iPhone 5 in my pocket & stop upgrading each year as I used to.

My iPad mini is in my laptop bag ready to use whenever I wish it's a great iPhone replacement.
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