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Old Aug 22, 2013, 07:48 AM   #26
GermanyChris
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Unless your tax return is basic, you need to file paper in the US as well. Most work with USCIS is also still paper based. One can argue that it would nice if certain things could be done electronically in Germany, and a tax return for example can be, even a very complex one, but the advantage of a mostly offline government is less opportunities for hackers to gain access. I also appreciate the fact that German elections still use pen and paper. No matter where I am in the world, next time a German government tries to sell us Diebolt **** again I will get on a plane back home and participate in the strikes and riots that will cause.

As for city hall, yeah no, thousands of dollars at USCIS and months of waiting for the approval of my greencard say otherwise (and being from a low risk country, already in the country on an H1B and married to a US citizen with a well paying job puts me in the first bucket). In retrospect I am glad we got married in Germany, the process for filing for the license was simple and the biggest challenge was to get the proper paperwork from the US to file for the required exemption since the US doesn't maintain a central registry. Once we had that we had everything approved within a week and when we got married my wife got her German "greencard" the same day. On a whole including going to the German administrative high court for the exemption cost less than 200 Euros. On top of it she got free German classes.
The green card process is very expensive which is one of the reasons we never went through it. We know my wife would be flying in and out of the country and that I'd end up here in a few years anyway. I have a colleague that has been going through the process now for about 18 months, there's always a request for new paperwork.

My arbeitserlaubnis was reasonable simple it was a trip to the landratsamt with a picture and application, they mailed my passport to Munich and Munich mailed to my home. No fuss no stress.
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Old Aug 22, 2013, 03:11 PM   #27
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The loss of the long gun registry in Canada was a tragic loss for the nation. It was a bloody good piece of legislation.
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Old Aug 22, 2013, 03:19 PM   #28
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This is quite disturbing. We all know that expanding background checks for gun purchases is a terrible thing that can only lead to a national database of gun owners and will lead to confiscation. Not to mention it's expensive, can be selectively enforced and will be abused. We also know that Chinese and other foreign hackers could access this information.

We need to rise up and protect our 2A rights. Not only are they maintaining a database of gun owners, but also potential gun owners. It's not like the NSA doesn't have access to this. This is just unconscionable, not to mention hypocritical and kind of funny.


How The NRA Built A Massive Secret Database Of Gun Owners





I love the smell of hypocrisy in the morning.

Come on dude. This has nothing to do with the 2nd. Amendment. Do you honostly think the NRA wants to regulate who has a gun ? That's laughable.

"A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."


Change the title it's very misleading.
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Old Aug 22, 2013, 03:39 PM   #29
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Come on dude. This has nothing to do with the 2nd. Amendment. Do you honostly think the NRA wants to regulate who has a gun ? That's laughable.

"A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."


Change the title it's very misleading.

I beg to differ. We've been told repeatedly by the NRA that any list of gun owners is bad thing lest it lead to confiscation. I'd say that relates to your 2A rights.

All it takes is one Bradley Manning or Edward Snowden to steal the list, not to mention Chinese hackers or our very own NSA. Think about it, the Chinese could steal the list and know who to go after first when they invade us. That's the scenario Mr. Lapierre has spelled out for us.
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Old Aug 22, 2013, 03:44 PM   #30
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I beg to differ. We've been told repeatedly by the NRA that any list of gun owners is bad thing lest it lead to confiscation. I'd say that relates to your 2A rights.

All it takes is one Bradley Manning or Edward Snowden to steal the list, not to mention Chinese hackers or our very own NSA. Think about it, the Chinese could steal the list and know who to go after first when they invade us. That's the scenario Mr. Lapierre has spelled out for us.
While I agree with you on that the NRA keeping a database has nothing to do with any violation of the 2nd. Amendment. That's my only gripe. The NRA is NOT the United States Government.
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Old Aug 22, 2013, 03:45 PM   #31
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I beg to differ. We've been told repeatedly by the NRA that any list of gun owners is bad thing lest it lead to confiscation. I'd say that relates to your 2A rights.
Why will it lead to confiscation?

Quote:
All it takes is one Bradley Manning or Edward Snowden to steal the list, not to mention Chinese hackers or our very own NSA. Think about it, the Chinese could steal the list and know who to go after first when they invade us. That's the scenario Mr. Lapierre has spelled out for us.
Thank god for Manning and Snowdown to revealing crimes being committed.

The Chinese invade us? Right.... with what? The US Navy could blow half their military out of the water before they get 500 miles off their own coast.
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Old Aug 22, 2013, 04:04 PM   #32
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Why will it lead to confiscation?


That's a good question. Mr. Lapierre has never answered it.
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Old Aug 23, 2013, 01:48 AM   #33
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People worry so much about their privacy/rights, but eat, drink and smoke themselves to death.

Government ---- We need your information.
Citizen ---- **** OFF!!!!!

Bank ---- We need your information and a ton of signatures for this loan.
Citizen ----- OK!!! Signs while not giving a **** about fine print.

Government ---- We are watching you!!!
Citizen ---- Hell No!!! I have rights!!! I will fight this.

Credit Bureaus(which are for profit and privately owned) ----- We are watching you.
Citizen ---- Bends over and asks to be gentle.
Only the government claims the legal right to use violence to force you to do things that you don't believe are in your best interest, to relieve you of your property, and even to kill you.

>

----------

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Originally Posted by NickZac View Post
If you are talking about repressive gun laws like what Washington DC or Chicago have, then a lot like licensing free speech or religion depending on the degree.

Gun ownership and transactions are not the wild, wild west. I used to work in the industry and we sold tens-of-thousands of guns. Not one of those guns were released until the background investigation was completed and we got approval from the BATF and/or the BATF and State of Maryland. Not 1. And we weren't the exception.

There are indeed some loopholes and they should be closed, but these are generally secondary person-to-person sales (quite a few states have supplemental laws regarding these). In the US, the background check you noted is the NICS check which performs on-spot background investigations done by the BATF (govt agency that oversees firearms). The belief that gun shows are places where millions of sales just go through is not accurate. Many shows do not allow people to sell there and dealers are not going to be releasing guns without a NICS if it is anything other than a 100+ year old black powder gun (they aren't regulated). A FFL will call in a NICS check for all transactions they do and will not release firearms until the BATF provides a review disposition. More or less, the person completes BATF-4473, they provide ID documentation, the FFL calls the BATF and gives them info on the application, and the BATF provides a NICS number and says whether the firearm can be released, the firearm is to be held pending further investigation, or the transaction is disapproved and the gun cannot be released. Many states have supplemental investigations. If there was no system for registration, it would be impossible to provide numeric figures on guns sold in the US.
http://www.atf.gov/firearms/faq/brady-law.html

One of the biggest issues is that this is done with a hand-written form and called in via the phone. It is slow, and risks spelling errors. New systems are in development which are using tablets and laptops to complete background investigations which allows the BATF to not have to deal with a voiced or hand printed name they may not spell correctly. This will benefit quite a few people and potentially help fight crime and recover stolen weapons/exonerate innocent individuals. It's a slow process tho, because this is a big network.

As to p2p secondary sales, rules for these are in the process of changing. They are changing in the direction in which secondary handgun and 'assault' gun sales will require a NICS and any mandatory waiting as per the state...other rifles, shotguns, and long guns can be sold without a NICS. But even then, a lot of owners selling/buying will still do a NICS through a dealer given that NICS is what will show the gun has changed hands if it was used in a crime. Honestly they should just do the NICS on all of the sales regardless of who is selling it or type...it would potentially reduce death rates, it will make gun control advocates happier, and it will have minimal affect on law-abiding pro-gun owners.
Thank you for stating the truth about how the current system actually works and debunking some of the anti-gun propaganda!

>
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Old Aug 23, 2013, 09:13 AM   #34
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Only the government claims the legal right to use violence to force you to do things that you don't believe are in your best interest, to relieve you of your property, and even to kill you.
I want to see a credible source on this. Cite it.

Quote:
Thank you for stating the truth about how the current system actually works and debunking some of the anti-gun propaganda!

>
And this is something we already knew. So what 'propaganda' are you claiming is debunked?

BL.
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Old Aug 23, 2013, 09:41 AM   #35
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Why will it lead to confiscation?



Thank god for Manning and Snowdown to revealing crimes being committed.

The Chinese invade us? Right.... with what? The US Navy could blow half their military out of the water before they get 500 miles off their own coast.
It doesn't lead to confiscation. It facilitates confiscation once new laws are enacted. Happening now in California as we speak.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/0...n_3117238.html

Have citizens register weapons... check
Enact law making the pre-ban weapons illegal... check
Send deputies to registered owners and collect... check

So now all of the law abiding citizens who participated in the California weapons registry are considered criminals.
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Old Aug 23, 2013, 10:05 AM   #36
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It doesn't lead to confiscation. It facilitates confiscation once new laws are enacted. Happening now in California as we speak.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/0...n_3117238.html

Have citizens register weapons... check
Enact law making the pre-ban weapons illegal... check
Send deputies to registered owners and collect... check

So now all of the law abiding citizens who participated in the California weapons registry are considered criminals.
Wrong. And it sounds you didn't even read the article. From it:

Quote:
The California state legislature passed a bill Thursday approving $24 million to expedite the confiscation of the estimated 40,000 handguns and assault weapons illegally owned by Californians.

SB 140, authored by Sen. Mark Leno (D-San Francisco), seeks to remedy the gun-confiscation backlog that has left thousands of illegal guns on the streets, including those owned by those with criminal convictions or serious mental illness.

“We are fortunate in California to have the first and only system in the nation that tracks and identifies individuals who at one time made legal purchases of firearms but are now barred from possessing them,” Leno said in a statement. “However, due to a lack of resources, only a few of these illegally possessed weapons have been confiscated, and the mountain of firearms continues to grow each day."
So, please tell us where 'law abiding' citizens in California are going to be "considered criminals".

BL.
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Old Aug 23, 2013, 10:14 AM   #37
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Wrong. And it sounds you didn't even read the article. From it:



So, please tell us where 'law abiding' citizens in California are going to be "considered criminals".

BL.
SB 140 funds the confiscation. Another bill will make possession of weapons with bullet buttons illegal.

Before they made the bill that made those 40000 legally registered weapons illegal, they were perfectly legal. And now they have a nifty little database of people and addresses to where they can send the deputies.
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Old Aug 23, 2013, 10:25 AM   #38
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SB 140 funds the confiscation. Another bill will make possession of weapons with bullet buttons illegal.

Before they made the bill that made those 40000 legally registered weapons illegal, they were perfectly legal. And now they have a nifty little database of people and addresses to where they can send the deputies.
Why are you against confiscating guns from those who illegally own them?
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Old Aug 23, 2013, 10:29 AM   #39
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Why are you against confiscating guns from those who illegally own them?
Did I say I was against it? I was just saying that registration facilitates confiscation. Registration does not lead to confiscation.

All of those guns and the people who owned them were at one time legal under the law. New bills made it illegal. SB140 funds the confiscation. Now add IN SB-374... All of those people are considered criminal as well.
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Old Aug 23, 2013, 10:41 AM   #40
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Did I say I was against it? I was just saying that registration facilitates confiscation. Registration does not lead to confiscation.

All of those guns and the people who owned them were at one time legal under the law. New bills made it illegal. SB140 funds the confiscation. Now add IN SB-374... All of those people are considered criminal as well.

The article you cited simply refers to those who own guns who are now not eligible to own them i.e. they are now felons or mentally ill. The law has been on the books for years and is now funded.
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Old Aug 23, 2013, 10:53 AM   #41
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The article you cited simply refers to those who own guns who are now not eligible to own them i.e. they are now felons or mentally ill. The law has been on the books for years and is now funded.


But do you see how they build the APPS database... They use the gun registry and compare it to criminal databases and medical databases. Hence the registration is being used to facilitate confiscation. Now add in new bills like SB-374. Use the same registration database and look for gun models that have met those characteristics and we have another list of criminals... Hence facilitation is still there.
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Old Aug 23, 2013, 11:15 AM   #42
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Any hear ever read The Turner Diaries? It is Earl Turner's personal account of the noble white-separatists and their war against the evil state. The part about the purge of Los Angeles is particularly vile. The uprising in the ranks of the white-separatists was caused when the government took everyone's guns away.

So, when you talk about "confiscation", keep in mind whom you are getting in bed with.
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Old Aug 23, 2013, 01:33 PM   #43
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But do you see how they build the APPS database... They use the gun registry and compare it to criminal databases and medical databases. Hence the registration is being used to facilitate confiscation. Now add in new bills like SB-374. Use the same registration database and look for gun models that have met those characteristics and we have another list of criminals... Hence facilitation is still there.
Are you arguing that registered psychotics should be allowed to keep their guns?
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Old Aug 23, 2013, 02:28 PM   #44
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Are you arguing that registered psychotics should be allowed to keep their guns?
Certainly not, but the database would make it possible to blame the person who let the psychotic get their hands on in the first place. That would be, umm, wrong. Freedom!
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Old Aug 23, 2013, 04:31 PM   #45
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I think I understand.
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Old Aug 26, 2013, 05:15 PM   #46
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Certainly not, but the database would make it possible to blame the person who let the psychotic get their hands on in the first place. That would be, umm, wrong. Freedom!
- Why would the person give his gun to someone else?
- If it was taken away from him, wouldn't he already have called the police, telling them he is missing his gun?
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Old Aug 26, 2013, 11:56 PM   #47
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- Why would the person give his gun to someone else?
- If it was taken away from him, wouldn't he already have called the police, telling them he is missing his gun?
Some gun owners are careful and responsible, others are not. Kind of like how it sometimes is with automobiles, which can also be dangerous. A gun owner needs to take proper care of their guns and not give or sell them to crazy or criminal people, the way we can address that is to make sure we know who owns/owned that gun that was used in that crime and prosecute them accordingly. This is a simple concept: if you have a dangerous tool, you should be handling it properly and not letting anyone misuse it. With no record of gun ownership, there is no reason for a gun owner to act responsibly, no consequences.
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Old Aug 28, 2013, 06:59 PM   #48
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Some gun owners are careful and responsible, others are not. Kind of like how it sometimes is with automobiles, which can also be dangerous. A gun owner needs to take proper care of their guns and not give or sell them to crazy or criminal people, the way we can address that is to make sure we know who owns/owned that gun that was used in that crime and prosecute them accordingly. This is a simple concept: if you have a dangerous tool, you should be handling it properly and not letting anyone misuse it. With no record of gun ownership, there is no reason for a gun owner to act responsibly, no consequences.
This is a good point!
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