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Old Jan 29, 2014, 07:43 AM   #251
iJohnHenry
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Should we then try to emulate the barbarism we decry?

Isn't that just a little hypocritical?
So is so easily dismissing the death of someone due to murder.
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Old Jan 29, 2014, 07:43 AM   #252
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Hmm... I wonder if you went out and killed someone using a painless poison rather than shooting them in the chest, the court system would let you off with a lighter sentence because you killed them in a less barbaric way
Depends on the jury, but it seems like the death penalty gets handed out more based on a killer's motive than his method. I don't have any stats to back that up.
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Old Jan 29, 2014, 07:53 AM   #253
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The death penalty is dumb and self destructive. I'm glad I live in a country where it is abolished.
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Old Jan 29, 2014, 08:10 AM   #254
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So is so easily dismissing the death of someone due to murder.
Who is dismissing anything, easily or otherwise? You have no argument except the vicarious satisfaction of barbaric, vengeful bloodlust. Why are you so keen to see people die?
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Old Jan 29, 2014, 08:15 AM   #255
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You have no argument except the vicarious satisfaction of barbaric, vengeful blood-lust.
Not me brother, I just have more respect for the life taken.

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Why are you so keen to see people die?
You may not think it, because of your position on the matter, but I actually value life.

That is why I believe if you take a life you forfeit your own.
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Old Jan 29, 2014, 08:35 AM   #256
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Can't do those jobs, the Unions complain you are taking away work from their members. Since they own the Democrats, this won't happen.

----------




You would be incorrect in that assumption.

Many are beyond redemption, and have no place in a civilized society.

Go volunteer in a halfway house if you want to see who we let out into the populace today and you will see how broken the current system is.
You don't like unions do you?

If you acknowledge that some are redeemable are you proposing a system that makes allowances for them or no?

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So is so easily dismissing the death of someone due to murder.
Who says the death has been dismissed? Is eye for an eye the only just punishment for every case? That is too Old Testament for my tastes especially regarding the historical flaws of the justice system, in many cases based on after the fact DNA evidence.
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Old Jan 29, 2014, 09:11 AM   #257
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Not me brother, I just have more respect for the life taken.
Hollow words. You know nothing of whether the victim or their family would share in your desire for vengeance. You would end another life for your own reasons only. Since capital punishment has absolutely no measurable deterrent value, all you are doing is adding to the pile of dead bodies.
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Old Jan 29, 2014, 09:13 AM   #258
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Hollow words. You know nothing of whether the victim or their family would share in your desire for vengeance. You would end another life for your own reasons only. Since capital punishment has absolutely no measurable deterrent value, all you are doing is adding to the pile of dead bodies.
We will have to agree to disagree on this one skunk.
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Old Jan 29, 2014, 09:15 AM   #259
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We will have to agree to disagree on this one skunk.
What part of my argument are you disagreeing with?
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Old Jan 29, 2014, 09:34 AM   #260
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Hollow words. You know nothing of whether the victim or their family would share in your desire for vengeance. You would end another life for your own reasons only. Since capital punishment has absolutely no measurable deterrent value, all you are doing is adding to the pile of dead bodies.
This type of punishment has always resonated with homo sapiens around the globe. If you take a life, you lose your life, seems to be fair if the standard is applied with 100% accuracy and consistency. However the eye for an eye stadard does not resonate with me if it means that what ever atrocity the guilty has performed on another, shall be performed on them. We are supposed to be better than that. My issue with the death penalty primarily rests with the innocents who have been put to death.
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Old Jan 29, 2014, 10:06 AM   #261
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This type of punishment has always resonated with homo sapiens around the globe. If you take a life, you lose your life, seems to be fair if the standard is applied with 100% accuracy. However the eye for an eye stadard does not resonate with me if it means that what ever atrocity the guilty has performed on another, shall be performed on them. We are supposed to be better than that. My issue with the death penalty primarily rests with the innocents who have been put to death.
My issue rests with the rank hypocrisy. If it does not deter, if verdicts can be incorrect, if it takes no account of degree, then it is nothing better than a spectacle for the tricoteuses. It brings us all to the level of that which we claim to abhor, and encourages an unwarranted sense of otherness and superiority. We are all capable of vileness.

As I said, rank hypocrisy.
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Old Jan 29, 2014, 10:28 AM   #262
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My issue rests with the rank hypocrisy. If it does not deter, if verdicts can be incorrect, if it takes no account of degree, then it is nothing better than a spectacle for the tricoteuses. It brings us all to the level of that which we claim to abhor, and encourages an unwarranted sense of otherness and superiority. We are all capable of vileness.

As I said, rank hypocrisy.
It is definitely not deterrence. In my prior post I should have said "seems to be fair if the standard is applied with 100% accuracy and consistency". That has not been achieved.
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Old Jan 30, 2014, 04:26 AM   #263
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I, personally, don't see a problem with the death penalty if used in the right circumstances. Serial killers is the only one that comes to mind right now. In the case of the serial killer, why should he get to take multiple peoples lives over and over as well as putting all of those families and friends in pain and skate by with a prison sentence? He obviously doesn't value human life. He clearly has intent to kill. I think those kinds of cases are grounds for execution. You might call this revenge (as some people have said previously in this thread) and you would be exactly right. Sometimes revenge is necessary. Clearly that is just my opinion.

Another thing - I have skimmed through this thread and people seem to talk about the death penalty and other things not being deterrents for people from committing those crimes. Would eye for an eye not be a good deterrent? If someone knew they would be killed for killing someone, don't you think they would think a little longer about killing that person and possibly not do it? If someone knew they would get the crap beat out of them because of a domestic assault situation, would that not deter them? If someone knew that by stabbing somebody, they would get stabbed - see my point? Of course this wouldn't work in some situations (theft, drugs, etc) but I don't see how or why it wouldn't be effective in physical violence situations.
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Old Jan 30, 2014, 04:31 AM   #264
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Who are you going to get to do the stabbing and the eye-gouging for you?
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Old Jan 30, 2014, 05:00 AM   #265
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Who are you going to get to do the stabbing and the eye-gouging for you?
Didn't quite think that part through and I can't come up with an answer without there being some kind of problem.
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Old Jan 30, 2014, 06:34 AM   #266
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I don't like to assume that anyone is completely beyond redemption.
You'd be wrong.

Spend a couple of days in Rikers or Folsom and you'll meet plenty of so-called people the planet would be better off without.
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Old Jan 30, 2014, 08:57 AM   #267
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Spend a couple of days in Rikers or Folsom and you'll meet plenty of so-called people the planet would be better off without.
Refusing to acknowledge that some people can be a total waste of skin, does little to elevate the Human animal much above his fellow creatures.

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Old Jan 30, 2014, 09:15 AM   #268
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I, personally, don't see a problem with the death penalty if used in the right circumstances. Serial killers is the only one that comes to mind right now. In the case of the serial killer, why should he get to take multiple peoples lives over and over as well as putting all of those families and friends in pain and skate by with a prison sentence? He obviously doesn't value human life. He clearly has intent to kill. I think those kinds of cases are grounds for execution. You might call this revenge (as some people have said previously in this thread) and you would be exactly right. Sometimes revenge is necessary. Clearly that is just my opinion.

Another thing - I have skimmed through this thread and people seem to talk about the death penalty and other things not being deterrents for people from committing those crimes. Would eye for an eye not be a good deterrent? If someone knew they would be killed for killing someone, don't you think they would think a little longer about killing that person and possibly not do it? If someone knew they would get the crap beat out of them because of a domestic assault situation, would that not deter them? If someone knew that by stabbing somebody, they would get stabbed - see my point? Of course this wouldn't work in some situations (theft, drugs, etc) but I don't see how or why it wouldn't be effective in physical violence situations.
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Who are you going to get to do the stabbing and the eye-gouging for you?
I believe eye for an eye would lower society and it's people by any bell weather standard you want to apply. I believe that "no torture" is at the top of standards that makes us better people. Regarding the death penalty, can we be as brutal as murderers but still be better, because we kill with a set of rules? As I said before I think the death penalty could be fair if it was applied with 100% accuracy and consistency, but the morality part is a separate discussion. Besides, based on human beings in charge of the legal system, I don't really see 100% accuracy and consistency happening so it becomes a hypothetical discussion.
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