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Old Jan 3, 2014, 10:45 AM   #51
Technarchy
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Originally Posted by lostngone View Post
Do you know even know anything about the Fast and Furious scandal? Do you know what a straw purchase is?

From your comment I seriously doubt it.
Not that it matters, but some people don't get that if you don't support holding politicians accountable when it's your party/dogma in power, don't be shocked when it comes back ten fold when the opposing side is in control.

Too late then, and BOHICA.
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Old Jan 8, 2014, 01:13 AM   #52
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It's amazing that Nixon had the watergate scandal and resigns because of it. Then we have this and this countries leaders today don't even have the balls to take responsibility and instead point the finger and play hot potato.
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Old Jan 8, 2014, 06:55 AM   #53
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All politicians (and individuals) should be held accountable for the amount of guns that are in the wild. Irrespective of ideology. IMO there's little difference between knowingly equipping criminals and arguing and enabling widespread gun availability to the public - the end result is exactly the same. And unfortunately practically irreversible.
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Old Jan 8, 2014, 03:15 PM   #54
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All politicians (and individuals) should be held accountable for the amount of guns that are in the wild. Irrespective of ideology. IMO there's little difference between knowingly equipping criminals and arguing and enabling widespread gun availability to the public - the end result is exactly the same. And unfortunately practically irreversible.
From Gabrielle Giffords:

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The Lessons of Physical Therapy
By GABRIELLE GIFFORDSJAN. 7, 2014

TODAY, the anniversary of the shooting in Tucson that put a bullet through my head and killed six of my constituents, is when I make my annual resolutions.

Many may look at me and see mostly what I have lost. I struggle to speak, my eyesight’s not great, my right arm and leg are paralyzed, and I left a job I loved representing southern Arizona in Congress.

But three years ago, dispatched to an almost certain death by an assassin’s bullet, I was allowed the opportunity for a new life. I had planned to spend my 40s continuing my public service and starting a family. I thought that by fighting for the people I cared about and loving those close to me, I could leave the world a better place. And that would be enough.

Instead, I’ve spent the past three years learning how to talk again, how to walk again. I had to learn to sign my name with my left hand. It’s gritty, painful, frustrating work, every day. Rehab is endlessly repetitive. And it’s never easy, because once you’ve mastered some movement or action or word, no matter how small, you move on to the next. You never rest.
--

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But I continue to be inspired by my fellow Americans. By any measure, they’re with us. They know gun violence is a complex problem. No one law will make it go away.

We’re not daunted. We know that the gun lobby, which makes money by preventing sensible change, relies on dramatic disappointments to wound us, reduce our power, push us back on our heels.

Our fight is a lot more like my rehab. Every day, we must wake up resolved and determined. We’ll pay attention to the details; look for opportunities for progress, even when the pace is slow. Some progress may seem small, and we might wonder if the impact is enough, when the need is so urgent.

But every day we will recruit a few more allies, talk to a few more elected officials, convince a few more voters. Some days the steps will come easily; we’ll feel the wind at our backs. Other times our knees will buckle. We’ll tire of the burden. I know this feeling. But we’ll persist.


http://www.nytimes.com/2014/01/08/op...pgtype=article
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Old Jan 8, 2014, 04:00 PM   #55
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Like I said before, Kelly is lucky and blessed to have such a beautiful woman for a wife, both inside and out. If anything, her will alone is a hell of a lot more powerful than anything the NRA, gun zealots, and their lobbies can throw at her.

BL.
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Old Jan 8, 2014, 04:53 PM   #56
lostngone
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What does this have to do with our Government handing firearms over to the Mexican drug cartels?
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Old Jan 8, 2014, 09:38 PM   #57
hulugu
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Originally Posted by Technarchy View Post
Not that it matters, but some people don't get that if you don't support holding politicians accountable when it's your party/dogma in power, don't be shocked when it comes back ten fold when the opposing side is in control.

Too late then, and BOHICA.
Hey, if there's evidence that AG Holder knew about the program and allowed it to continue, he should be sacked. I've got no problem holding people accountable, I just don't see anything that shows the program went beyond DHS and BATF including the IG report.

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Originally Posted by Diseal3 View Post
It's amazing that Nixon had the watergate scandal and resigns because of it. Then we have this and this countries leaders today don't even have the balls to take responsibility and instead point the finger and play hot potato.
Nixon was about to be impeached because the trail of evidence showed that he was responsible for the Watergate scandal.

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Originally Posted by lostngone View Post
What does this have to do with our Government handing firearms over to the Mexican drug cartels?
The government allowed firearms to cross into Mexico through straw-buyers, they did not ship weapons directly to the cartels.
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Old Jan 9, 2014, 02:25 AM   #58
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The government allowed firearms to cross into Mexico through straw-buyers, they did not ship weapons directly to the cartels.
They might as well have done it.
Legal firearm dealers were being threatened by a federal agency(ATF) and told to break Local, State and Federal laws or possibly lose their business.
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Old Jan 9, 2014, 02:36 AM   #59
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^^That's as rational as saying private firearms owner are responsible the the US murder rate because most guns used in crime are stolen.
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Old Jan 9, 2014, 11:09 AM   #60
hulugu
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Originally Posted by lostngone View Post
They might as well have done it.
There's a huge legal and ethical difference there.

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...Legal firearm dealers were being threatened by a federal agency(ATF) and told to break Local, State and Federal laws or possibly lose their business.
Spin. Source for the accusation that firearms dealers were "threatened" by the ATF.

According to the Center for Public Integrity, some gun dealers asked if there would be legal liability for the sales and were told that they would be protected from prosecution because they were doing so as part of a federal investigation.
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