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Old Oct 16, 2013, 10:31 AM   #51
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Gee the website went live the day everyone had to go home because of furlough. I'll bet the administrators of that website would love to be there doing their jog getting their paycheck.
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Old Oct 16, 2013, 10:33 AM   #52
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Originally Posted by SLC Flyfishing View Post
Such a disaster that only 50K managed to sign up? I guess that's possible. Though that may say more about the government and their ability to administer such a program than democrats would like.
I think a lot of people are

(a) just waiting because there's no advantage to signing up now, as opposed to a month from now, and

(b) were excited to see what kind of coverage they could get/sign up, then got to the website, had trouble creating an account, and said "meh, I'll wait a month for that crap to start working right".

From what I've heard, a lot of the issue with the website is that almost every connection is serving totally unique data. Plus the website has to talk to IRS databases, SSA databases, and a zillion other external connections to grab data about you. Almost nothing is cache-able.
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Old Oct 16, 2013, 10:35 AM   #53
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Originally Posted by SLC Flyfishing View Post
Such a disaster that only 50K managed to sign up? I guess that's possible. Though that may say more about the government and their ability to administer such a program than democrats would like.
That's one of the ironies of this situation - Republicans are so busy fighting over how to use their newest hammer, they've missed a big opportunity to publicize a public failure in the very system they are working to bring down.
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Old Oct 16, 2013, 10:46 AM   #54
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Originally Posted by SLC Flyfishing View Post
Such a disaster that only 50K managed to sign up? I guess that's possible. Though that may say more about the government and their ability to administer such a program than democrats would like.
Healthcare.gov had 7 million hits in the first 48 hours.

Show me a web service that still works flawlessly under that type of load. Even Apple's update, activation, and validation had major hiccups the first day iOS7 was released, and they no doubt have invested much more money in server farms than the government has for healthcare.gov.


There's also probably a lot of people who just went on to check out their options and are planning to sign up sometime between now and January 1st. People don't like rushing in to things.. many will go on, check out their options, wait a week or two to think over their options and make their choice, and then sign up.


But trying to claim it's a failure after two weeks is laughable. You won't legitimately be able to judge the success of this program for like a decade.
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Old Oct 16, 2013, 10:54 AM   #55
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Originally Posted by SLC Flyfishing View Post
And that's where you are wrong. I don't care for the method that's been put in place, but I am 100% in support of getting everyone access to healthcare. It's actually somewhat insulting that you would assume that. Though your response, especially considering that it comes from you, is not all that surprising.
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Originally Posted by citizenzen View Post
Perhaps I misjudged your stance.

I tell you what ... quote any post you've made previously where you've said that you support 100% every American getting access to to healthcare—and I assume you mean something beyond an emergency room—and I'll apologize for mischaracterizing your position.
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Originally Posted by SLC Flyfishing View Post
Go ahead and look through my posting history, I've said as much multiple times. You are probably just blind to it as we often align on opposite sides of the political spectrum.
Okay. I've searched through your past posts and here's what I found ...

Search Term: Universal Healthcare [1 post]

Quote:
Originally Posted by SLC Flyfishing View Post
Can you pin this stat [The US infant mortality rates and life expectancy are an atrocity for a first world country. Let alone the richest first world country.] solely on the lack of universal health care? I'm pretty sure the fact that we're caring for a ton of very pre-term babies here has a lot to do with our infant mortality rate.
As a point of comparison, searching that term and my username results in 25 results, a number of which plainly state my support for it.

Search Term: UHC [Sorry - no matches. Please try some different terms.]

Zero results? I had 11. If you've been advocating to ensure every American multiple times you must be using some other terms.

Search Term: Insure Everybody [Sorry - no matches. Please try some different terms.]

Search Term: Insure Everyone [Sorry - no matches. Please try some different terms.]

Search Term: Insure All Americans [Sorry - no matches. Please try some different terms.]

Search Term: Insure 100% [Sorry - no matches. Please try some different terms.]

Search Term: "every american insured" [Sorry - no matches. Please try some different terms.]

Search Term: "everybody insured" [Sorry - no matches. Please try some different terms.]

Search Term: "everyone insured" [Sorry - no matches. Please try some different terms.]

Search Term: "Healthcare for All" [1 Result] *gasp* a hit!

OH. Thank goodness. Surely here's where you advocate for every citizen to get healthcare ...

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Originally Posted by iMikeT View Post
But but but Republican lawmakers, who are the very people against healthcare for all Americans, have no problem receiving healthcare that is paid for by us taxpayers. Now when we want national healthcare for ourselves, then they're very much against it. 'Merica indeed.
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Originally Posted by SLC Flyfishing View Post
Sorta like Obama who is constantly protected by assault weapons, but would like to deny us the right to the same protection for ourselves?
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Originally Posted by SLC Flyfishing View Post
So you don't think you're a target for bad guys with guns? Ever been the victim of a home invasion robbery? I have.

I'd say you are more easily targeted because you don't have a security entourage with you 24-7.

I didn't say the same protection, at least I'm not implying we should all have access to secret service protection. But if Obama wants to restrict the access of the citizenry to different types of firearms, don't you think he should lead the way and offer himself a similar level of protection? At the very least restrict his guards to weapons that he's not attempting to ban for the rest of us?
Well ... that was ... bizarre.

I was pretty much going to give up on the quest for finding even one instance where you advocated for every American being covered by health insurance.

But then I used the search term: "Single Payer" [1 result]

It was in the thread: Good Policy or Gun Grabbing? and in that discussion about gun control you posted ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by SLC Flyfishing View Post
So you recommend implementing policy that has been shown to be ineffective globally?

And even though itms off topic, i'll bite on the health care comment: I'm all for expanding health care availability, I'd be a terrible future physician if I wasn't. I don't think we're doing it the right way right now, but that's for another thread. I'd like single payer, with a loan forgiveness program and tuition reform for medical schools because $400K+ in student loans upon completion of training is becoming the new norm for many physicians. That debt can't be supported by the salaries that UK and Canadian physicians earn from what I've read and been told. Apart from that, I'd like nothing more than to be able to see every single person who needed me, I love what I'm doing and it makes me happy so the more the merrier IMO.

Back on topic...I also don't think that reactionary gun policies are going to reduce violence or suicide. And this study tends to prove exactly that. It highlights exactly what you said in your previous post, that culture has more to do with violence than weapons availability. I don't think you'd find much resistance from pro-2A people when it comes to addressing cultural issues in this country, in fact, I think they'd get behind that wholeheartedly.
And there you have it. One post, off-topic in a gun control thread.

It is curious how you'd mention off-topic in a gun control thread your support of single-payer, but apparently not in discussions on healthcare.

If you have said it "multiple times" I couldn't find them. Perhaps you could point them out. I know I've fulfilled my responsibility in searching your posts. Now it's your turn.

As yet, apology on hold due to lack of evidence.
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Old Oct 16, 2013, 07:25 PM   #56
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Since I don't qualify for the ACA, and I may be ignorant, but does the ACA prevent an uninsured individual from showing up at an emergency room without paying? My understanding is that if you don't have insurance or are a participant in the ACA, you will pay a fine if you don't have the cash to pay? If you are fiscally conservative, what's not to like? One of the big problems are emergency rooms around the country absorbing the costs of uninsured individuals to be passed on to the rest of the paying patients, is it not?
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Old Oct 16, 2013, 11:26 PM   #57
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What insurance provider is that through? Did you maintain the same level of coverage? If you get the insurance through an employer, did your employer's contribution change any?
Aetna.
Same level of coverage, although the coming year's deductible is going up just a bit.
I can't speak to what the employer's contribution was, only mine (it was going up from about $37 twice a month to over $60).

Quote:
But on the other hand, your premiums will lower because there is a market-driven exchange that companies compete in.
I'm just a dumb engineer, so I might need you to explain to me how $60 is lower than $37.

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Your county hospital taxes will lower because uninsured people no longer go to the ER for illnesses that could have been prevented, paid for at ER rates.
No county hospital here.

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Linking insurance coverage to employment is a worse solution.
I have no beef with allowing employers to provide coverage, or paying a portion of an employee's coverage.

I absolutely oppose requiring employers to provide any amount of coverage or paying a portion of an employee's coverage. So it sounds like you and I agree on that.
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Old Oct 17, 2013, 09:02 AM   #58
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Aetna.
Same level of coverage, although the coming year's deductible is going up just a bit.
I can't speak to what the employer's contribution was, only mine (it was going up from about $37 twice a month to over $60).
Interesting. We had Aetna for a few years until a job change - maybe I can find the enrollment info for the past few years, to check out our costs. I don't recall it ever going down. (Most of the companies I worked for were quite happy to show us what they were contributing to our health insurance. One company even produce an annual "Total Compensation Statement" that detailed the company's costs for health insurance, vacation pay, pension/401k, etc. They liked to show that while our salary was X, our cost to the company was 1.3*X.)


Quote:
I'm just a dumb engineer, so I might need you to explain to me how $60 is lower than $37.
"Will," not "is." I'm making a prediction about the future. And I'm not predicting a reduction in absolute amounts, but rather a decrease in the rate of increase.

Also, I'm talking about what the ACA "should" do or is "intended" to do. I do allow for the possibility that the ACA will drive insurance premiums through the roof, but I think that's unlikely.


Quote:
No county hospital here.
For what it's worth, in Dallas the county hospital, Parkland, gets 0.276% of a homes value each year through property taxes. That's $690/yr for a $250k house.

Kinda like being subject to property taxes to fund public schools, I guess - $3,205/yr for that in Dallas for the $250k house. For the most part, people without kids seem okay with it.

For you? Hmm, yes, it seems possible you could see increased insurance premiums due to the ACA. The only saving grace - supposedly, the ACA has provisions to control the actual costs of health services, so while your payments for $X benefits might go up, hopefully the actual amount of $X will go down, and therefore your payments will too.

Quote:
I have no beef with allowing employers to provide coverage, or paying a portion of an employee's coverage.

I absolutely oppose requiring employers to provide any amount of coverage or paying a portion of an employee's coverage. So it sounds like you and I agree on that.
Indeed. Which is why, from what I can tell, I think the "single payer" setup is the way to go. It would help situations like, say, I wanted to quit my job and start a company. With no more employer-linked health insurance, I'd have a notoriously difficult time getting insurance on the open market. My father was just telling me about a friend of his who owns a small publishing company. He had a seizure a couple years ago. Not big consequences, and it just happened once - but now he has a "pre-existing condition" and can't get insurance. He is chomping at the bit to get signed up with the exchanges.
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Old Oct 17, 2013, 09:06 AM   #59
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I can't speak to what the employer's contribution was, only mine (it was going up from about $37 twice a month to over $60).
Without knowing our employer's contribution, how do you know it was a rate increase rather than the company contributing less, or both?
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Old Oct 17, 2013, 09:13 AM   #60
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Without knowing our employer's contribution, how do you know it was a rate increase rather than the company contributing less, or both?
Knowing the company, the notion that they would simply start contributing more toward our premiums makes me chuckle just a bit.
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Old Oct 17, 2013, 11:03 AM   #61
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Knowing the company, the notion that they would simply start contributing more toward our premiums makes me chuckle just a bit.
So, wouldn't that then make it quite plausible that the reason for your costs going up is your employer contributing less?
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Old Oct 17, 2013, 11:17 AM   #62
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Knowing the company, the notion that they would simply start contributing more toward our premiums makes me chuckle just a bit.

That's not what I said.

I've had health insurance from 3 different employers over the past 11 years and rates have gone up 8 or 9 times. So all of a sudden insurance rate hikes are the fault of Obamacare?
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Old Oct 17, 2013, 01:14 PM   #63
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So, wouldn't that then make it quite plausible that the reason for your costs going up is your employer contributing less?
Of course. But I've never had an employer suddenly impose a near-doubling of employee's shares before. It also came accompanied by a note explaining that the increase was due to additional requirements they now have to comply with as part of ACA. you must have overlooked that post.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rdowns View Post
I've had health insurance from 3 different employers over the past 11 years and rates have gone up 8 or 9 times. So all of a sudden insurance rate hikes are the fault of Obamacare?
I've experienced increases over the years as well, a few dollars here or there. This is the first increase I've ever seen of this magnitude, along with the explanation to go with it. So yeah, this particular rate hike is because of Obamacare.
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Old Oct 17, 2013, 02:46 PM   #64
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So yeah, this particular rate hike is because of Obamacare.
As far as you know ... based on the information your company told you.
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Old Oct 17, 2013, 02:50 PM   #65
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Well, I quoted 2 morons and the polls that show many opposed to Obamacare while support for individual parts of the law get approvals in the 60-70% range.

IMO, negative campaigning, identify politics and misinformation campaigns (remember death panels, IRS lies etc.) have been effective in making people oppose the law without knowing the facts of the law.
Wait a minute, I thought if you rubbed 2 clueless morons together, you get a politician.
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Old Oct 17, 2013, 04:24 PM   #66
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As far as you know ... based on the information your company told you.
ObamaCare has given companies an excuse to do rate hikes.
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Old Oct 18, 2013, 12:16 AM   #67
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It also came accompanied by a note explaining that the increase was due to additional requirements they now have to comply with as part of ACA.
There's a desire here to accept or reject the reasons but we don't know what the reasons are. Perhaps if you could inquire and share what those requirements are? Maybe it's something stupid or maybe it's something useful. I for one would like to know if there is pitfall waiting for me.
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Old Oct 18, 2013, 01:05 PM   #68
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Sure people vote against their interests, but I always assumed that meant advertising and promises, choosing the wrong vote not knowing the right choice and avoiding it. That voting booths were private - so you could claim anything while actually voting how you want?
I don't think they're faking it. They adopt the same beliefs as their families from a young age and then keep the same beliefs as they get friends, coworkers, and so on.

It takes a very open-minded freethinking person to adopt a position contrary to almost all of their immediate peers, and that's a quality just not many people have.

Campaign ads can sway undecided voters, but they aren't meant to convince the base.
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Old Oct 19, 2013, 10:00 AM   #69
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It takes a very open-minded freethinking person to adopt a position contrary to almost all of their immediate peers, and that's a quality just not many people have.
One of the reasons I joined PRSI (after being a macrumors reader for something north of a decade) was to exercise my brain. Finding myself agreeing with to many of those around me, is the first sign I may need to change direction. But to your previous point, I have also chosen to be outcast rather than accept or allow something wrong to continue.
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Old Oct 19, 2013, 10:03 AM   #70
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I don't think they're faking it. They adopt the same beliefs as their families from a young age and then keep the same beliefs as they get friends, coworkers, and so on.

It takes a very open-minded freethinking person to adopt a position contrary to almost all of their immediate peers, and that's a quality just not many people have.

Campaign ads can sway undecided voters, but they aren't meant to convince the base.
Almost all my peers are far on the left of the political spectrum, I guess that makes me an open-minded freethinker?

Somehow I think you'll disagree.
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Old Oct 19, 2013, 10:14 AM   #71
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Almost all my peers are far on the left of the political spectrum, I guess that makes me an open-minded freethinker?

Somehow I think you'll disagree.
Being open-minded and free thinking requires open-mindedness and free thinking. You are not necessarily open-minded and a free thinker simply because you hold a minority opinion.
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Old Oct 19, 2013, 10:14 AM   #72
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Of course. But I've never had an employer suddenly impose a near-doubling of employee's shares before.
Unfortunately, I have. The plan's cost went up, the employer's contribution stayed the same, the employee's contribution doubled.

Quote:
It also came accompanied by a note explaining that the increase was due to additional requirements they now have to comply with as part of ACA. you must have overlooked that post.
I don't doubt that the ACA is in part responsible. The pre-existing condition thing is a huge deal, and the price impact is going to ripple through the industry and affect all prices indirectly. When all is said and done, people who are lucky enough to be healthy for their entire lives will end up paying more than they would have otherwise. The same is true of all insurance, isn't it? If your house never catches fire, you wasted your money on fire insurance all those years.
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Old Oct 19, 2013, 10:16 AM   #73
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Being open-minded and free thinking requires open-mindedness and free thinking. You are not necessarily open-minded and a free thinker simply because you hold a minority opinion.
Like you would know.
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