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Old Sep 18, 2013, 07:10 AM   #76
rocknblogger
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Quote:
Originally Posted by twietee View Post
Not sure what's more scary: a Government blatantyl and repeatedly breaking the law or a huge crowd of citizens being totally ok with that (also imagining everybody else wearing somekind of a tin hat?! > see a doctor).

Even if you have nothing to 'hide' at all, this is severely damaging any trust left to those who you voted for representing and gouverning you. We, the citizens, have to obey the laws, as stupid as they can be at times, as our government has to obey them, even when it's unconvenient. Shrugging it off won't do any good and history proves that in numerous ways.
I don't think anyone is okay with the government breaking laws. But there's only so much you can do other than vote in people that you trust. But how hard is that to find? Just because people aren't vocal about it here in the forums doesn't mean they're not outraged or at the least upset about it.

So you tell me, what's the solution? Should we lock our doors, nail the windows, stop using anything with a transistor or circuit board and live in fear? Or should we perhaps take to the streets with whatever weapons we can find and make our way to Washington? Or do we choose to live our lives as best as possible being careful where we can and speak to our congressmen, vote, and hope for the best?

I refuse to live in fear from anyone. I will certainly take steps to protect my family and myself to the best of my abilities but I'm not going to look for imaginary government agents under my bed.

If a tech company breaks my trust I'll stop using their products. Apple has specifically said that fingerprints will not be stored or transmitted to the cloud. Until someone proves otherwise I choose to trust them for now.

Hysteria paranoia and hyperbole gets us nowhere and helps no one and nothing.
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Old Sep 18, 2013, 07:11 AM   #77
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gkarris View Post
What happens when it becomes, in this Economy, the terms of employment?

I remember when there was a story that employers were asking for people's personal e-mail & social media username/passwords so that they can monitor their people. Some only went as far as making employees friend them on these sites for the same reasons.
Is that for real?

But that's the thing, as long as lots of people are totally ok with being monitored etc. things unlikely change to the better, they do get worse piece by piece. What happened to the good ol' boycott? Plus, it is one thing to accept things like that for making a living (I partly disagree here, but tolerate this as an explanation) and something totally different to go out and advocate such a behavior- be it via ignorance or cynism. I'd be amazed if there would be any worker in such a company honestly saying: ' Who cares, they have a right to have my passwords and control my personal e-mails since they pay my paycheck."

We have some popular sayings over here: "Steter Tropfen hölt den Stein."* or "Wehret den Anfängen." Closing ones eyes never helps in reality - protest can.


* "Constant dripping wears the stone."
** "Nip it in the bud!"

Last edited by twietee; Sep 18, 2013 at 07:19 AM.
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Old Sep 18, 2013, 07:25 AM   #78
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Quote:
Originally Posted by twietee View Post
Is that for real?
One of many articles:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...nterviews.html

I remember first hearing about it from job seekers online - interviewers and employers were asking to friend them...

http://swampland.time.com/2013/04/09...dia-passwords/
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Old Sep 18, 2013, 07:30 AM   #79
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gkarris View Post
One of many articles:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...nterviews.html

I remember first hearing about it from job seekers online - interviewers and employers were asking to friend them...

http://swampland.time.com/2013/04/09...dia-passwords/
Thx. For the record because it may have come across wrongly, I didn't question your statement; it was more of a rethorical question.
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Old Sep 19, 2013, 01:14 AM   #80
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"Introducing the new iPhone nSa, the best surveillance device to date. It aims to put your freedom... in the crosshairs."
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Old Sep 22, 2013, 03:10 PM   #81
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Really?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vctr View Post
I would rather them have my fingerprints than them have access to all of my private internet data and access to my phone calls.

What could they do with my fingerprints?
Some of you were just born yesterday huh? Or you are reborn with every new device this company sells you?

Check it out:
http://www.thedailybeast.com/article...be-hacked.html

Basically you leave finger prints everywhere, someone who is following you will find a way and you wont even know it, why would you know it? You just don't know? So that is enough to make you become more aware and DO YOUR HOMEWORK, research all the many ways finger prints are used in the world and for what, to what extent will people go to steal ID, check it all out.
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Old Sep 22, 2013, 03:23 PM   #82
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rocknblogger View Post
I don't think anyone is okay with the government breaking laws.

Hysteria paranoia and hyperbole gets us nowhere and helps no one and nothing.

Last I checked, complacency and standing around waiting for something to go down also helps nothing. The only thing that helps is not owning one of these over priced survalance gadgets and to be fully present in one's life to recognize the world around us, interact with it more than we do on these stupid devices right? That is the only real tested and TRUE thing to help anything.

People too easily trust huge multi-nationals and just give over everything to them as though they earned the right to.

Always question everything. That helps everything too
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Old Sep 22, 2013, 07:19 PM   #83
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vpro View Post
Last I checked, complacency and standing around waiting for something to go down also helps nothing. The only thing that helps is not owning one of these over priced survalance gadgets and to be fully present in one's life to recognize the world around us, interact with it more than we do on these stupid devices right? That is the only real tested and TRUE thing to help anything.

People too easily trust huge multi-nationals and just give over everything to them as though they earned the right to.

Always question everything. That helps everything too
I more or less said the same thing but using different words. So it seems to me we are in agreement.
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Old Sep 25, 2013, 04:40 AM   #84
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Old Sep 26, 2013, 03:36 AM   #85
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If the NSA doesn't have a warrant, then they should not be able to get anything from Apple about you.

We have a Fourth Amendment, you know.

But as I understand it, only a one way hash of the fingerprint is stored on the phone, and the salt is different on every phone. No actual image of your fingerprint is stored, so there would be nothing useful to send if it even came to that.
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Old Sep 26, 2013, 12:04 PM   #86
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shinji View Post
But as I understand it, only a one way hash of the fingerprint is stored on the phone, and the salt is different on every phone. No actual image of your fingerprint is stored, so there would be nothing useful to send if it even came to that.
See this for more (and more logical) inferences on how the fingerprint is stored:
https://securosis.com/blog/investiga...secure-enclave


Despite what's been said before, I see no logical way that the data stored on the phone could be a hash. One property of a hash is that small changes turn into many differences in the output hash, e.g. a single-bit difference in input results in multi-bit differences in output. Hashes are also one-way (irreversible).

Since the fundamental operation is to compare a received input with the registered one, and determine whether the two are close enough to declare a match, I see no logical way that a hash would work. Hashed values don't have a "magnitude" to compare, nor do they have any ordering that strictly depends on the input. Hashing the received data before comparison will result in an incomparable mess of bits. Since a hash is also irreversible, a stored hash can't be "unhashed" in order to get a value that can be compared with the received data.

Last edited by chown33; Sep 26, 2013 at 12:10 PM. Reason: bold
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Old Sep 27, 2013, 09:32 AM   #87
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Many are saying they wouldn't mind as the govt already has them, and that is true, but now they will be able to match it with the activities you do with your phone, etc.
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Old Sep 27, 2013, 11:31 AM   #88
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Don't all you stupid kids read anymore? No Such Agency tapped ISPs not giant companies! I believe Google, Microsoft, Apple and other big Internet companies they didn't let No Such Agency into their servers.

However none of the ISPs companies came out to deny the Snowden releases and that should be the first clue they were neck deep into this scandal.
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Old Sep 27, 2013, 11:36 AM   #89
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The government has my fingerprints, life history, and DNA via US Military--so I guess I am not too concerned. But my personal opinion is that Apple--or any other reliable company--wouldn't send personal data without a warrant. But maybe I am too much an optimist.
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Old Sep 30, 2013, 01:18 PM   #90
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I personally wouldn't care. My fingerprints are on file from the military, for the local government, for weapons purchase, and I'm sure for other things I can't recall. I am who I am and my fingerprint confirms I'm still he.
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Old Sep 30, 2013, 07:35 PM   #91
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Quote:
Originally Posted by grillz813 View Post
I'm in the military so they already have all my biometric info already . I can't really stress about it. Bring on the 5S baby
That's pretty much my take on it as well. The Feds know me inside and out.
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Old Sep 30, 2013, 08:13 PM   #92
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I'm afraid that the NSA might use my fingerprints to create a zombie clone of myself.

----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by tshrimp View Post
Many are saying they wouldn't mind as the govt already has them, and that is true, but now they will be able to match it with the activities you do with your phone, etc.
The government will know more about my 'intents' when they read my MR posts.

My fingerprint? What additional information will my fingerprint tell them? What will they do with my fingerprints? They already know where I live. They already have a copy of my US Passport, they know where I travel, and my birth certificate, and my driver's license. They already know everything they need to know about me. My fingerprint will tell them something they don't already know about me?
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Old Oct 6, 2013, 06:28 PM   #93
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I really don't care. I have nothing to hide.

What is the big deal?? People are getting so emotional about this. Its crazy.
I may have nothing to hide, but whether I choose to hide it is my business alone.
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Old Oct 16, 2013, 01:43 AM   #94
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I don't have a 5S, but if I did I wouldn't care as the government already has my fingerprint anyway. I remember having to give it out a few times, I don't remember exactly what for right now. Getting a drivers license, going through customs, something like that....
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Old Oct 24, 2013, 03:10 PM   #95
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When I was younger at a shopping mall with my parents the police were collecting fingerprints so if a kid goes missing they can ID them. They already have all my families fingerprints. I also don't care whatsoever if they have my print.
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