Obama's in "fantasyland"...but it's the GOP avoiding reality

[balamw]

Originally Posted by AlaskaMoose

The fact is that it will be a lot cheaper for some Americans to pay the fine than to spends hundreds of $ per month to buy health insurance.

Not for the system as a whole it isn't.

Over half of the personal bankruptcies in the US are related to medical bills, and when someone can't pay their bills because they either had no insurance or their bills were not covered by some reason, we ALL pay more for our care as these bills don't magically disappear, they just get spread among anyone who does pay for medical care.

Related article from forbes.com http://www.forbes.com/sites/rickunga...ck-up-her-tab/

B

[MadeTheSwitch]

Originally Posted by AlaskaMoose

So? Which politician around, Democrat or Republican, does not flip?

Oh please. Romney has made it a way of life. In all my many years on this earth, I have never seen someone flip on THAT many issues. I have never seen someone flip same week or even same day on issues over and over. I have never seen members of that person's own party also claim that they are not sure what they are getting and do not know where the person stands or what he really will do. Romney has taken flipping to a whole other level with his etch-a-sketch.

Ah! I see. Only right wingers work in the US industries. Left wingers are the poorest Americans. They live in tree houses made of straw (all natural), don't have toilets, nor automobiles, don't buy computers because of the enormous pollution that results from the computer industry

Of course not. But it's voices on the left that push and call for things to be made better. Just like on climate change as well. Where people on the right don't even think it exist!

That's why I said, you want answer that please YOU.

Most people want an answer to the question they actually asked. Don't you? If not then I will start answering you by talking about completely unrelated things like marshmallows and unicorns.

Why should there be a mandate for one to buy health insurance?

I thought I made it clear...in order to cover preexisting conditions there are two options: 1) Raise insurance rates (even higher) 2) have everyone in the system spreading out the cost. Even Mitt Romney understood this before he came down with Romnesia.

The fact is that it will be a lot cheaper for some Americans to pay the fine than to spends hundreds of $ per month to buy health insurance.

Only at first. Not later on.

[thekev]

Originally Posted by AlaskaMoose

What are you talking about? Not even Homeland Security is forcing sick people to work in "plants." Why should there be a mandate for one to buy health insurance? Every one of us should have the freedom not to buy health insurance if we don't want to. But as it is now, with Obamacare, you will be fined if you don't buy insurance, and the IRS will make sure of that. So why you may well be under your parents insurance to the childhood age of 26, those who don't have others to pay for their health insurance will have to buy their own. Next year every American who has health insurance will be forced to send data from his or her medical records to the IRS. The fact is that it will be a lot cheaper for some Americans to pay the fine than to spends hundreds of $ per month to buy health insurance.

I'm curious as to your actual stance on this. Do you just dislike the solution or simply feel it was fine before? Insurance rates went up, but they've gone up annually anyway aside from age range adjustments. This is somewhat of a bandage approach to problems with healthcare.

[tshrimp]

Best thread I have ever read.

1st off AlaskaMoose, thanks for your service. 2nd of all you should be a teacher or debater of some kind. Anyone with conservative views on this board will be ganged up on, so that was not a surprise, but the way in which you handled things and dismantled almost every argument was very impressive. Thank you for your teaching today. You have my respect.

[mcrain]

Originally Posted by AlaskaMoose

I am in the union, and public sector employee. Just because Obamacare is being phased in, my health insurance payment went up 267% starting this fiscal year (in July).

Can you point to the EXACT portion of ObamaCare that your insurance company used to jack up your prices? My guess is that you, like many others, suffered sticker shock when insurance companies jacked up their rates before ObamaCare's provisions were effective, and would have prohibited that kind of premium manipulation.

Filings from Connecticut’s two largest health insurers, which both applied for double-digit rate increases this year, show that the insurance companies are not driving up their prices because Obamacare is leading them to do so. Rather, the rate increases are due to increasingly expensive health costs that are unaffected by the implementation of the health care law:
But the overwhelming reason for the rate increase requests is rising medical costs, the filings by Anthem, Aetna and ConnectiCare say. The companies say this is mainly because providers are raising their prices and patients are getting more care.
“People are accessing more services and hospitals, doctors and labs are charging us more,” Aetna spokeswoman Susan Millerick said.
The costs associated with the Affordable Care Act account for only a tiny fraction of the requested increases — less than 1 percent. These amounts cover the costs of the preventative women’s care benefits and the changes in cost sharing, said Paul Lombardo, the actuary for the state Insurance Department who reviews the rate increase requests. ThinkProgress

Originally Posted by AlaskaMoose

Well, I can see the nonsense of your assumptions, too. You don't have to be a rocket scientist to conduct business and create jobs. If governments step aside and make it possible for the private sector to thrive, jobs are created. Are you aware that corporate taxes in the US are the second highest in the world, and that GE did not pay taxes this year? A challenge for you: can you figure why GE didn't pay corporate taxes?

That's funny, I actually am a rocket scientist, albeit now I'm arguably a tax expert Higher taxes are more often associated with growing economies, job expansion and GDP expansion than are lower tax rates. I love how you argue that we have the highest marginal rates, but GE pays no taxes. Irony you don't have to be a rocket scientist to see.

Originally Posted by AlaskaMoose

Russia can be seeing from some areas of Alaska, but the person who said that in SNL didn't know what she was talking about.

And yes, I am an undeclared voter.

I call BS. It is a common right-wing fallacy that the "I can see Alaska" comment was only said by Tina Fey on SNL. The SNL skit was making fun of a real Palin comment. You just showed your true colors. Red!

The basis for the line was Governor Palin's 11 September 2008 appearance on ABC News, her first major interview after being tapped as the vice-presidential nominee. During that appearance, interviewer Charles Gibson asked her what insight she had gained from living so close to Russia, and she responded: "They're our next-door neighbors, and you can actually see Russia from land here in Alaska, from an island in Alaska"

-- From Snopes.

[MadeTheSwitch]

Originally Posted by tshrimp

Best thread I have ever read.

1st off AlaskaMoose, thanks for your service. 2nd of all you should be a teacher or debater of some kind. Anyone with conservative views on this board will be ganged up on, so that was not a surprise, but the way in which you handled things and dismantled almost every argument was very impressive. Thank you for your teaching today. You have my respect.

Dismantled almost every argument? Where? Not even close. But thank you for bringing a smile to my face today.

[tshrimp]

Originally Posted by MadeTheSwitch

Dismantled almost every argument? Where? Not even close. But thank you for bringing a smile to my face today.

Dismantled - Start reading here http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=1481289

Thank you - NP. Glad I could give someone a smile.

[Grey Beard]

Originally Posted by tshrimp

Thank you - NP. Glad I could give someone a smile.

A smile, I rolled on the floor laughing so much, I pee'd my pants.

KGB

[Moyank24]

Originally Posted by tshrimp

Dismantled - Start reading here http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=1481289

Thank you - NP. Glad I could give someone a smile.

I believe that you don't know the definition of dismantled.

But, they do say perception is reality - so there's your victory. It will be the only one this week for you, so savor it.

[rdowns]

Originally Posted by AlaskaMoose

I am an independent voter, and as such vote for my pocket. There is is no way I can vote Democrat anymore (last time I did was for Bill Clinton), simply because the Democrats, specially now, are killing me. I am in the union, and public sector employee. Just because Obamacare is being phased in, my health insurance payment went up 267% starting this fiscal year (in July).

I don't know how much some of you pay for a gallon of gasoline, but in Alaska it's still over $4.00 per gallon. Four years ago I was paying around $2.00 per gallon.

I know facts are anathema to you based on your posts, but please provide some proof that the ACA has caused your insurance premiums to rise so much?

As for gas prices, were you similarly outraged when prices hit $4 under Bush or were you happy when the price plummeted due to a near worldwide financial system collapse and huge decrease in teh demand for gas?