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Old Nov 13, 2014, 12:58 PM   #3201
dellxps15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tiagobaracho View Post
Old batteries do have a high rate of self discharge... it can be just that....
the only way you could really be sure is connecting a power supply while all battery pins are connected but the positive... so you could make a comparison of the amps its draining....
Probably by probing you wont find any answer in this case..
I believe its the battery itself....
Have you tested to fully charge it and remove , wait 3 days and put back to see if it has drained ?
tnx for that suggestion. i'll try to put battery apart for some days. i was thinking in bad magsafe but before replace it let's try that.

any tips for the 820-2879?
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Old Nov 13, 2014, 04:39 PM   #3202
tiagobaracho
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dellxps15 View Post
tnx for that suggestion. i'll try to put battery apart for some days. i was thinking in bad magsafe but before replace it let's try that.

any tips for the 820-2879?
bad magsafe board?? no no .. it would not cause that....
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Old Nov 14, 2014, 06:12 AM   #3203
dellxps15
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Originally Posted by tiagobaracho View Post
bad magsafe board?? no no .. it would not cause that....
tnx, ive noticed that when battery is connected in the info i have "battery capacity" to only 1433 mah and macbook tell me to change battery. it has 952 cycle.

maybe is there some battery reset or calibration to try before replace the battery ?

edit: ok ill make battery discharge then charge full to see if it will come back ok again. if not ill change the battery :

now main problem is the other 2879 u7000 chip problem and 12.5volt not ok... cant fix this unit from 1 year
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Old Nov 16, 2014, 12:55 AM   #3204
tiagobaracho
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dellxps15 View Post
tnx, ive noticed that when battery is connected in the info i have "battery capacity" to only 1433 mah and macbook tell me to change battery. it has 952 cycle.

maybe is there some battery reset or calibration to try before replace the battery ?

edit: ok ill make battery discharge then charge full to see if it will come back ok again. if not ill change the battery :

now main problem is the other 2879 u7000 chip problem and 12.5volt not ok... cant fix this unit from 1 year
This is most probably your battery... 952 cycles is too much.. sometimes you have a 952 cycled battery that is ok and sometimes its bad..
1433mah says it all.. its bad... so it should have a high self discharge...

What the other problem? did not get it .. same macbook ? whats going on?
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Old Nov 16, 2014, 08:54 AM   #3205
dellxps15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tiagobaracho View Post
This is most probably your battery... 952 cycles is too much.. sometimes you have a 952 cycled battery that is ok and sometimes its bad..
1433mah says it all.. its bad... so it should have a high self discharge...

What the other problem? did not get it .. same macbook ? whats going on?
yes, finally it is the battery going to die. seller told me that battery got a good mah..

the other problem is a different macbook pro 13 core duo.

it has not 12.5volt on f7040, but only 1-6 3-9 volt oscillation.

i reported u7000 pins voltage. something must be bad as on pin 1 i have 9v instead of the 0v when all is ok..... 3.35volt on g3hot.

with u7000 installed i have no 3.3 volt. without u7000 i have 3.3 volt on coil.

i checked almost all resistors on that circuit and they are good...
changed also the 2 12.5 volt fet with same result.
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Old Nov 16, 2014, 10:48 PM   #3206
tiagobaracho
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dellxps15 View Post
yes, finally it is the battery going to die. seller told me that battery got a good mah..

the other problem is a different macbook pro 13 core duo.

it has not 12.5volt on f7040, but only 1-6 3-9 volt oscillation.

i reported u7000 pins voltage. something must be bad as on pin 1 i have 9v instead of the 0v when all is ok..... 3.35volt on g3hot.

with u7000 installed i have no 3.3 volt. without u7000 i have 3.3 volt on coil.

i checked almost all resistors on that circuit and they are good...
changed also the 2 12.5 volt fet with same result.
This 12.5v is generated by the u7000 controlling a fet to operate a coil of the DC-DC BULK converter...
But to U7000 be able to do that, it has to talk to the SMC ... It can be a SMC issue too....
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Old Nov 19, 2014, 02:59 AM   #3207
greekhero
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How to detect G3Hot Short....?

Hello,

Is there an easy and concrete way to detect G3Hot (or others for that sake) shorting to ground?

I have a water damaged logicboard that doesn't power on using battery OR charger.

1. I have noticed that the Charger light is dim and it is almost in blinking state and voltage fluctuates between 2-16.5V.
2. There is NO G3Hot on the board. When powered with battery, I can see that the G3Hot power supply does get 11.x volts but its output is short to the ground.

Now how can I determine what is causing that short? There are about 10 capacitors, mostly 0402, in different plaecs on the board that connect to PP3V42_G3H and a bunch of components. I was ondering if there was an easy way for me to detect where the short may be? Or would I need to step-by-stop remove each part and test?

Any advice would be helpful!

Many thanks!
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Old Nov 20, 2014, 12:45 AM   #3208
tiagobaracho
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Quote:
Originally Posted by greekhero View Post
Hello,

Is there an easy and concrete way to detect G3Hot (or others for that sake) shorting to ground?

I have a water damaged logicboard that doesn't power on using battery OR charger.

1. I have noticed that the Charger light is dim and it is almost in blinking state and voltage fluctuates between 2-16.5V.
2. There is NO G3Hot on the board. When powered with battery, I can see that the G3Hot power supply does get 11.x volts but its output is short to the ground.

Now how can I determine what is causing that short? There are about 10 capacitors, mostly 0402, in different plaecs on the board that connect to PP3V42_G3H and a bunch of components. I was ondering if there was an easy way for me to detect where the short may be? Or would I need to step-by-stop remove each part and test?

Any advice would be helpful!

Many thanks!
Well.. You need to use a powersupply on the output of the 3.42v coil and increase current until something get hot... this is why i have a thermal cam....
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Old Nov 20, 2014, 07:55 AM   #3209
dellxps15
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meanwhile i try to fix the 2 macbook board, i got a macbook air 13 inch core duo from a friend with this problem:

works fine from adapter. some month ago i changed him the battery because was dead.
now pc works ok with adapter, but if i disconnect adapter pc turn off sometimes immediately, sometimes after a bit.

if i look in battery information it say that everything is fine.

also i have noticed that when battery is at 70% (for example) it took up to 4 hours to get to 80%.

voltage at battery fuse is 8v (ok for a macbook air).

what could the the problem ?
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Old Nov 20, 2014, 08:16 AM   #3210
tiagobaracho
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dellxps15 View Post
meanwhile i try to fix the 2 macbook board, i got a macbook air 13 inch core duo from a friend with this problem:

works fine from adapter. some month ago i changed him the battery because was dead.
now pc works ok with adapter, but if i disconnect adapter pc turn off sometimes immediately, sometimes after a bit.

if i look in battery information it say that everything is fine.

also i have noticed that when battery is at 70% (for example) it took up to 4 hours to get to 80%.

voltage at battery fuse is 8v (ok for a macbook air).

what could the the problem ?
Problems of this kind with battery can always be related to the charger ic( and capacitors and resistors around).... If you are seeing battery information it's probably not smc related...also check battery fets..... It's also possible it's the battery itselft..,, so check it too with another battery...
Check for corrosion, I had c2d MacBook Air with corrosion due to airflow.... There are very very tinny small resistors that does not handle dust / moisture well...
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Old Nov 20, 2014, 08:38 PM   #3211
jkoneal
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tiagobaracho View Post
Problems of this kind with battery can always be related to the charger ic( and capacitors and resistors around).... If you are seeing battery information it's probably not smc related...also check battery fets..... It's also possible it's the battery itselft..,, so check it too with another battery...
Check for corrosion, I had c2d MacBook Air with corrosion due to airflow.... There are very very tinny small resistors that does not handle dust / moisture well...
I have a Macbook Air Late 2010 with liquid damage. I had to change the keyboard backlight fuse. I have thoroughly cleaned with a brush and cleaning of electronic components. The board boots correctly. According AHT is entirely correct. But I have the magsafe dim light. Also, if it's off with magsafe connected flashes green / orange. All this with very dim light on the magsafe.

The battery has 2 of the 4 points marked in red, but not swollen. I do not detect battery voltage using the multimeter and the battery is not detected, it always appears that the battery is not installed (ISTAT, coconut, osx ... no battery detected).

Moreover, I found that the center pin magsafe gives 0V when connected, while others give 16,5V. The fuse next to the magsafe connector gives the same values on both sides, checked against ground. And there the fuse near the battery connector too.

Cleaning with isopropyl alcohol would do something? The little corrosion or coffee stain I saw was around components fuse blacklight. I cleaned it well and now I do not see anything below the micro chips and I do not know ...

But such schemes have no inscriptions on the plate and in the early polycarbonate MacBook, I can not follow the scheme ...

You could tell me where the others are and G3Hot recomendáis check. If solucionase asking for power / audio board the asking, but I feel that it is not so and I would check.

I reset the PRAM / NVRAM and as I have no keyboard yet (it's on the way ...), I have reset SMC disconnecting long the battery and pressing the keys and pins from power-on board, it seems that resets it. But do not know how to check 100%. Until you have keyboard I can see that somehow SMC reset?

Thank you very much for the help that you can give me and excuse my English.
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Old Nov 21, 2014, 09:30 PM   #3212
tiagobaracho
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jkoneal View Post
I have a Macbook Air Late 2010 with liquid damage. I had to change the keyboard backlight fuse. I have thoroughly cleaned with a brush and cleaning of electronic components. The board boots correctly. According AHT is entirely correct. But I have the magsafe dim light. Also, if it's off with magsafe connected flashes green / orange. All this with very dim light on the magsafe.

The battery has 2 of the 4 points marked in red, but not swollen. I do not detect battery voltage using the multimeter and the battery is not detected, it always appears that the battery is not installed (ISTAT, coconut, osx ... no battery detected).

Moreover, I found that the center pin magsafe gives 0V when connected, while others give 16,5V. The fuse next to the magsafe connector gives the same values on both sides, checked against ground. And there the fuse near the battery connector too.

Cleaning with isopropyl alcohol would do something? The little corrosion or coffee stain I saw was around components fuse blacklight. I cleaned it well and now I do not see anything below the micro chips and I do not know ...

But such schemes have no inscriptions on the plate and in the early polycarbonate MacBook, I can not follow the scheme ...

You could tell me where the others are and G3Hot recomendáis check. If solucionase asking for power / audio board the asking, but I feel that it is not so and I would check.

I reset the PRAM / NVRAM and as I have no keyboard yet (it's on the way ...), I have reset SMC disconnecting long the battery and pressing the keys and pins from power-on board, it seems that resets it. But do not know how to check 100%. Until you have keyboard I can see that somehow SMC reset?

Thank you very much for the help that you can give me and excuse my English.
hi man,, its seems to me as SMC issue... you probably have g3hot 3.42v but check if its not too far from 3.42...
SMC " talks" to the battery through the SDA line.. It also needs the SLC line to control this communication..... Maybe there is corrosion underneath the SMC or its simply bad..
Check of the SDA and SLC are being pulled up to 3.4v(sda) and pushed down(0v) the slc....

My best bet would be the SMC... But sure you have to test and check all capactiors related to the SDA and SLC line...
The water indicator on the battery does not matter too much because it could have only had contact outside... but you need to check the battery board if there is any corrosion...also, check each cell voltage...
Take a good luck on all bad solder because of the corrosion.. sometimes its so bad that the SMD component is there but there is no contact between itself and the pcb pads...
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Old Nov 23, 2014, 09:31 AM   #3213
mihkels
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I've got a water damaged Late 2013 13" MBP Retina A1502.

The computer had a small amount of liquid spilled on it that caused the battery to stop charging. The computer still recognizes the battery, but won't charge or run from it. There's still 36% of charge left in the battery but the computer turns off as soon as the Magsafe charger is disconnected.

Any tips on what to check?
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Old Nov 23, 2014, 02:14 PM   #3214
tiagobaracho
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mihkels View Post
I've got a water damaged Late 2013 13" MBP Retina A1502.

The computer had a small amount of liquid spilled on it that caused the battery to stop charging. The computer still recognizes the battery, but won't charge or run from it. There's still 36% of charge left in the battery but the computer turns off as soon as the Magsafe charger is disconnected.

Any tips on what to check?
man.. if its a small spills... probably the problem is on the spill area... check al parts in this area and rework all solders... be sure everything there is ok first... then.. if it still happens, you need to troubleshoot the battery FET parts, resistor and the fet itself.....
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Old Nov 24, 2014, 11:19 AM   #3215
jkoneal
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tiagobaracho View Post
hi man,, its seems to me as SMC issue... you probably have g3hot 3.42v but check if its not too far from 3.42...
SMC " talks" to the battery through the SDA line.. It also needs the SLC line to control this communication..... Maybe there is corrosion underneath the SMC or its simply bad..
Check of the SDA and SLC are being pulled up to 3.4v(sda) and pushed down(0v) the slc....

My best bet would be the SMC... But sure you have to test and check all capactiors related to the SDA and SLC line...
The water indicator on the battery does not matter too much because it could have only had contact outside... but you need to check the battery board if there is any corrosion...also, check each cell voltage...
Take a good luck on all bad solder because of the corrosion.. sometimes its so bad that the SMD component is there but there is no contact between itself and the pcb pads...
I think the problem is the i/o board, before buying another I want to check, because I've seen people that changes and still the same problem.

But I can not follow you. I have the schematics, but I can not identify the elements. For example:
  1. g3hot see it in the schemes, but what chip is?
  2. I have a capacitor tester, where are SDA and SLC in the schemes? And on the board?

Regarding the battery think like you, but I get 0v is it possible that they all have 0v, or am checking where not ?, perhaps is dead.

Thanks
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Old Nov 25, 2014, 06:47 PM   #3216
hayatojin
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Hello everybody!

First, I want to say this is an utterly amazing thread; I haven't read the ENTIRE thing, but have gotten up to page 20 or so...

Basically, here's my situation:

I have a Late 2011 13" MBP (K20i), NO liquid spill; I honestly have no idea what the hell happened. One day it was okay but with the HDD had become badly corrupted, upon fixing it on another computer and putting it back, it wouldn't turn on.

After much debugging and trying everything I've though to do, here's what I've found out.

First, the symptoms:
  • Non-responsive to power button or shorting of power pads.
  • Magsafe does not light at all (occasionally it goes dim green and very rarely alternates dim green and dim amber), battery does not charge.
  • Powers on and can even boot the OS if I use the SMC bypass method (Obviously when I do that, fans on full, no sensors, etc.)
  • I've tried running an ASD while on that mode, it gives me an SMC communication error (which I believe is normal in that mode) and nothing else fails. Obviously, since there's no SMC there are no sensors.
  • This will only work if I charge the battery on another mac.

I have tried booting into rEFInd and force-flashing the SMC to no avail. I get an error because the SMC is in B (base) mode instead of the correct A (I think), if I reset the smc via the command-line with the smc flashing utility, the commands returns 0 and the computer immediately turns off and exists the SMC bypass mode, so again it won't boot.

I remember when I first opened it there was a little bit of corrosion around the SMC chip but I thoroughly cleaned with IPA the first time I opened it (of course, battery disconnected)

Now, I cannot spot anything physically wrong with the board.


Measurements I've done:
  • G3Hot is around 3.45V wherever I measure it.
  • No SMC_BC_ACOK.
  • Magsafe pins 2 and 4, 0.3V.
  • Both fuses are OK.
  • The SMC_RESET_L gave me (I think) 2.8V.

Have measured a couple resistances relating to the above measurements and they've all measure very close to the values the schematic gives.
I have no idea where to go from here.
Frankly I feel somewhat like a kid playing with his father's tools but just maybe I can learn enough and you can help enough to at least be able to diagnose the issue.

Here's the relevant portion of the ASD log:

Quote:
Local machine info: Mac OS X version = 10.6.6(10J3204a) IP Address:127.0.0.1 ASD version:3S148
==========================================================
==========================================================
ASD Log activity from [12/31/00 16:01:37] to [12/31/00 16:25:54]
==========================================================
[12/31/00 16:01:37] * TESTING STARTED *
[12/31/00 16:01:37] Custom: Hardware Existence Check (test #2) - Hardware Existence Check
- Verifies non-configurable hardware existance.
[16:01:37] Test Passed
[12/31/00 16:01:37] Main Logic Board: Check POST Results (test #1) - Check POST Results
- Check Results of POST from last reboot.
[16:01:37] Test Passed
[12/31/00 16:01:37] * All startup tests passed [Elapsed time = 00:00:00] *
==========================================================
[12/31/00 16:06:11] * TESTING STARTED *
[12/31/00 16:06:11] Boot ROM: Boot ROM FW GUID MAC Addr Checksum Test (test #2) - Boot ROM FW GUID MAC Addr Checksum Test
- Verify the Boot ROM FW GUID MAC address checksum.
[16:06:11] Test Passed
[12/31/00 16:06:11] SMC: SMC EPM check (test #7) - SMC EPM check
- Check to ensure that UV and CV EPM blocks are programmed.
[16:06:11] ERROR - -39007 [SMC communications error] -- TEST FAILED
[12/31/00 16:06:11] * TESTING FAILED [Elapsed time = 00:00:00] *
==========================================================
[12/31/00 16:06:23] * TESTING STARTED *
[12/31/00 16:06:23] Boot ROM: Boot ROM FW GUID MAC Addr Checksum Test (test #2) - Boot ROM FW GUID MAC Addr Checksum Test
- Verify the Boot ROM FW GUID MAC address checksum.
[16:06:23] Test Passed
[12/31/00 16:06:23] SMC: SMC EPM check (test #7) - SMC EPM check
- Check to ensure that UV and CV EPM blocks are programmed.
[16:06:23] ERROR - -39007 [SMC communications error] -- TEST FAILED
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Old Yesterday, 08:28 PM   #3217
tiagobaracho
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Join Date: Jun 2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by hayatojin View Post
Hello everybody!

First, I want to say this is an utterly amazing thread; I haven't read the ENTIRE thing, but have gotten up to page 20 or so...

Basically, here's my situation:

I have a Late 2011 13" MBP (K20i), NO liquid spill; I honestly have no idea what the hell happened. One day it was okay but with the HDD had become badly corrupted, upon fixing it on another computer and putting it back, it wouldn't turn on.

After much debugging and trying everything I've though to do, here's what I've found out.

First, the symptoms:
  • Non-responsive to power button or shorting of power pads.
  • Magsafe does not light at all (occasionally it goes dim green and very rarely alternates dim green and dim amber), battery does not charge.
  • Powers on and can even boot the OS if I use the SMC bypass method (Obviously when I do that, fans on full, no sensors, etc.)
  • I've tried running an ASD while on that mode, it gives me an SMC communication error (which I believe is normal in that mode) and nothing else fails. Obviously, since there's no SMC there are no sensors.
  • This will only work if I charge the battery on another mac.

I have tried booting into rEFInd and force-flashing the SMC to no avail. I get an error because the SMC is in B (base) mode instead of the correct A (I think), if I reset the smc via the command-line with the smc flashing utility, the commands returns 0 and the computer immediately turns off and exists the SMC bypass mode, so again it won't boot.

I remember when I first opened it there was a little bit of corrosion around the SMC chip but I thoroughly cleaned with IPA the first time I opened it (of course, battery disconnected)

Now, I cannot spot anything physically wrong with the board.


Measurements I've done:
  • G3Hot is around 3.45V wherever I measure it.
  • No SMC_BC_ACOK.
  • Magsafe pins 2 and 4, 0.3V.
  • Both fuses are OK.
  • The SMC_RESET_L gave me (I think) 2.8V.

Have measured a couple resistances relating to the above measurements and they've all measure very close to the values the schematic gives.
I have no idea where to go from here.
Frankly I feel somewhat like a kid playing with his father's tools but just maybe I can learn enough and you can help enough to at least be able to diagnose the issue.

Here's the relevant portion of the ASD log:
This is very probably the SMC.... but you need some tools and skills to replace it...
Your pictures are in very bad quality to check the board appearance.
To me, its 95% probable to be SMC..
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