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Old Aug 28, 2013, 06:19 PM   #276
aerok
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We can argue all we want but the fact remains clear and simple

More guns = More deaths

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/01/06/su...ling.html?_r=0
http://www.motherjones.com/politics/...-investigation

And stricter gun laws = Less deaths

http://www.atlantadailyworld.com/201...s-gun-violence

Cannot get any simpler

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Quote:
Originally Posted by DUCKofD3ATH View Post
Thanks for bringing that up. I thought I'd mentioned it several times, but if someone is too unstable to own a weapon, he shouldn't be allowed out amongst the general public.
So anyone with PTSD should be locked in? Is that how we should thank war veterans?
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Old Aug 28, 2013, 06:29 PM   #277
Michael Goff
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DUCKofD3ATH View Post
Thanks for the links. Here's the deal: guns are dangerous and useful just as cars are dangerous and useful.

In 2011, there were 32,367 motor vehicle deaths in the US. On average 89 people were killed on the roadways of the U.S. each day. Many of them involved children being killed.

Motor vehicle crashes are the leading cause of death for children of every age from 2 to 14 years old (based on 2001 figures, which are the latest mortality data currently available from the National Center for Health Statistics).

We have are fourth highest in traffic fatalities when compared to the rest of the world.

So automobiles are far more dangerous than firearms, yet there's no concerted effort to change how we acquire and drive them.

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I've been fair in responding to your posts and not twisted what you've said.

In return, you've completely distorted what I said to score a cheap insult.

If that's how you want to roll, that's your business, but I'm not interested in wasting my valuable time on people who cheat. If you want to debate me, please clean up your act.
I apologize for that unwarranted sarcasm.
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Old Aug 28, 2013, 07:49 PM   #278
citizenzen
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DUCKofD3ATH View Post
Thanks for the links. Here's the deal: guns are dangerous and useful just as cars are dangerous and useful.

In 2011, there were 32,367 motor vehicle deaths in the US. On average 89 people were killed on the roadways of the U.S. each day. Many of them involved children being killed.

Motor vehicle crashes are the leading cause of death for children of every age from 2 to 14 years old (based on 2001 figures, which are the latest mortality data currently available from the National Center for Health Statistics).

We have are fourth highest in traffic fatalities when compared to the rest of the world.

So automobiles are far more dangerous than firearms, yet there's no concerted effort to change how we acquire and drive them.
Ah yes, the automobile argument again.

I've decided to try a new approach ... I'm not going to argue against you. I'm content to let you believe whatever (IMO) silly thing you want to believe on this issue. I will instead become more detached to what is occurring in these threads and in American society when it comes to firearms.

We reap what we sow. And your mentality, as well as the mentality of many other gun advocates guarantees that hundreds of thousands of Americans will be killed by guns in the coming decades. It is one of the most unnecessary and ugly aspects of our culture.

Bon appétit.
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Old Aug 28, 2013, 11:28 PM   #279
zioxide
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DUCKofD3ATH View Post
Thanks for the links. Here's the deal: guns are dangerous and useful just as cars are dangerous and useful.

In 2011, there were 32,367 motor vehicle deaths in the US. On average 89 people were killed on the roadways of the U.S. each day. Many of them involved children being killed.

Motor vehicle crashes are the leading cause of death for children of every age from 2 to 14 years old (based on 2001 figures, which are the latest mortality data currently available from the National Center for Health Statistics).

We have are fourth highest in traffic fatalities when compared to the rest of the world.

So automobiles are far more dangerous than firearms, yet there's no concerted effort to change how we acquire and drive them.
Cars aren't designed to be weapons. Automobile deaths are accidental the vast majority of the time. Gun deaths on the other hand...

Furthermore, it's ridiculous to say that there's no concerted effort to increase safety in automobiles. That's just straight-up not true. Auto makers and the NTSB are constantly working to make cars safer and design safer roads. Auto deaths have been on a constant decline for decades. Meanwhile firearms deaths have been steadily increasing again that they'll outpace auto deaths in 2 years.


Last edited by zioxide; Aug 29, 2013 at 12:59 AM. Reason: grammar
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Old Aug 29, 2013, 03:06 PM   #280
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DUCKofD3ATH View Post
I think that the American public has to endure many challenges, such as our broken criminal justice system; rampant drug abuse; and a government that is infringing on our rights while beggaring us as a nation.
This seems like a distractor. Do you really think that these challenges are unique to American society?

Quote:
Originally Posted by DUCKofD3ATH View Post
I'm not sure what your point is. In any dangerous situation there is a point at which there is nothing you can do to protect yourself from death. If you're referring to the Australian who was shot in the back, it's plausible that, just by carrying a gun, his attackers would have moved on to murder someone who was unarmed. Hence that bullet wouldn't have been traveling his way.
I wasn't referring to the tragic case of the Australian baseball player, but since you brought it up, we can use it to illustrate the point that I was trying to make.

You ask the question of what would have happened if the baseball player were armed, and ponder the possibility that he might not have been targeted. I don't think that the three teenage murderers were being that careful with the selection of their targets, but I'm willing to say that it's a possibility. But consider this possibility: that the teenagers didn't have a gun to fire.

Sure, the teenagers could have still jumped the individual, chasing him with knives and baseball bats, but now he would have a fighting chance - or a chance to run away. The bullet came out of nowhere, and he couldn't outrun it.

Stay with me on this: we cannot eliminate every single gun on the planet. I know you were thinking it and that gun proponents love to say this, but I said it first. Even if we enacted bans, people would be illegally smithing them or smuggling them in, whether from the police, the military, or other countries. But the number of guns would be reduced. The number of criminals, potential criminals, and other individuals with access to guns would be reduced, forcing them to use another weapon or to abort their plans entirely. We have hard data that this works: knife incidents rose in Canada as firearm incidents fell when they enacted regulations on firearms, which wouldn't have occurred if firearm regulations were ineffective.

I'd rather face someone with a knife than a gun, but I respect that there are differences in opinion on this subject. I heard from one person that he'd prefer the gun, because it would be "faster and less painful" than a knife. I think that's a bit of a defeatist attitude, but to each his own.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DUCKofD3ATH View Post
Clearly you don't understand the problem. It should go: Suppose we fixed the criminal justice system so every criminal served his sentence and ALL criminals went to prison (no plea bargaining), and our murder and gun violence rates plummeted to the levels of those other countries. Next you put those who are too mentally unstable to be allowed to own firearms in asylums.
You have brought up two other problems that America is not dealing with correctly, and your suggestions as to how to fix them indicate that you haven't given them much thought. Did you know that we have more of our population imprisoned than other nations? Did you know that our sentencing also tends to be harsher, and that we provide less "societal rehabilitation" for our prisoners compared with some other countries?

But getting into the specifics of prison and treating the mentally ill is another debate in itself. All you need to ask yourself is if it makes sense that America would have a significantly greater number of violent criminals and mentally ill than other countries in the world. I'll tell you straight out that it is unrealistic - biologically and statistically - that such a scenario would occur in reality.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DUCKofD3ATH View Post
So automobiles are far more dangerous than firearms, yet there's no concerted effort to change how we acquire and drive them.
Not true. We are constantly passing laws banning what can be done in cars in order to improve driver safety. First it was talking on a cellphone without a hands-free device; now we have laws banning texting. I've heard that some states were considering passing laws banning the usage of cellphones in cars entirely, although enforcement of such a law would be difficult. Signs reminding drivers to "buckle up" (a safety measure) are routinely posted along roads. Police routinely monitor roads, looking to pull people over for speeding, for breaking the cellphone laws, or for having some other safety violation (a burnt our brake light, for example). While it's coming from the private sector, there will likely be a large push to implement self-driving cars in the future. My guess is that you'll fight against it, though, claiming that it infringes on your freedom to drive yourself.

It's also worth reminding that these arguments comparing guns to cars are ridiculous. "They're both tools; inanimate objects," you might say, and you'd be right. The difference is that most Americans require a car for their livelihood - be it for getting to their job, or for getting food from the grocery store - but very, very few people require a gun. Necessity would also explain why there is a higher tolerance for auto-related incidents (not that they are being ignored!), and less so for firearm-related incidents.
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Old Aug 29, 2013, 10:59 PM   #281
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DUCKofD3ATH View Post
So automobiles are far more dangerous than firearms, yet there's no concerted effort to change how we acquire and drive them.
So, automobiles are "far" more dangerous than firearms, based on the fact that by number alone, there are more automobile deaths per year (barely) than gun deaths? I assume this is what you are saying, right?

So, now riddle me this: how many people handle or ride in a vehicle every day vs. how many people handle a gun each day? I think that's kind of an important part of the equation if you're going to make that claim.
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Old Aug 29, 2013, 11:26 PM   #282
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Quote:
Originally Posted by samiwas View Post
So, automobiles are "far" more dangerous than firearms, based on the fact that by number alone, there are more automobile deaths per year (barely) than gun deaths? I assume this is what you are saying, right?

So, now riddle me this: how many people handle or ride in a vehicle every day vs. how many people handle a gun each day? I think that's kind of an important part of the equation if you're going to make that claim.
It's an interesting argument. By extension, there's no point in curing cancer because more people die of heart disease.

And, of course, this argument ignores the reality that automobiles are highly regulated and operate on highly regulated roadways.
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Old Aug 30, 2013, 09:29 AM   #283
appleisking
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DUCKofD3ATH View Post
Thanks for the links. Here's the deal: guns are dangerous and useful just as cars are dangerous and useful.

In 2011, there were 32,367 motor vehicle deaths in the US. On average 89 people were killed on the roadways of the U.S. each day. Many of them involved children being killed.

Motor vehicle crashes are the leading cause of death for children of every age from 2 to 14 years old (based on 2001 figures, which are the latest mortality data currently available from the National Center for Health Statistics).

We have are fourth highest in traffic fatalities when compared to the rest of the world.

So automobiles are far more dangerous than firearms, yet there's no concerted effort to change how we acquire and drive them.

----------



I've been fair in responding to your posts and not twisted what you've said.

In return, you've completely distorted what I said to score a cheap insult.

If that's how you want to roll, that's your business, but I'm not interested in wasting my valuable time on people who cheat. If you want to debate me, please clean up your act.
I didn't know people buy cars for the express purpose of killing, you know like they do with guns. This is something that inherently needs to be regulated, that is a law of nature my friend. Also the automobile industry is far more regulated than the gun industry (let's see: road signs, speed limits, inspections, insurance, registration).
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Old Aug 30, 2013, 12:26 PM   #284
LIVEFRMNYC
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If ammunition were used at a similar rate as gasoline, then guns would be far more dangerous than any vehicle.

In a sense ... it's a pound for pound comparison.
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Old Aug 30, 2013, 04:45 PM   #285
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DUCKofD3ATH View Post

So automobiles are far more dangerous than firearms, yet there's no concerted effort to change how we acquire and drive them.
There are frequent efforts to augment driving habits. In fact there are entire groups dedicated to the mitigation of drunk driving. Unfortunately many urban and suburban parts of the US have terrible mass transit systems. It's not so bad in New York, DC, or San Francisco, but the LA subway doesn't go anywhere other than the Valley and Downtown. You seem to be concerned that there are issues beyond just firearms, but one doesn't displace the other.
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Old Sep 2, 2013, 06:33 PM   #286
LIVEFRMNYC
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I wonder if cops approached everyone strapped with the same type of rifles, how would these guys that are open carrying feel about that?
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Old Sep 2, 2013, 07:47 PM   #287
Mac'nCheese
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DUCKofD3ATH View Post



So automobiles are far more dangerous than firearms, yet there's no concerted effort to change how we acquire and drive them.
Except for stuff like this:

http://www.state.nj.us/mvc/Vehicle/m.../traffic01.htm

And all the new rules that come in that little writing they send you every time you renew your registration or license.
And the efforts to block anything new -like texting- that may distract drivers.
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