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Old Jan 3, 2013, 03:26 PM   #101
irDigital0l
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Most people seem around still have iPhone 4/4S and Galaxy S III.

Think Google will only continue gaining its lead. Apple will slowly grow. Microsoft will also grow and overtake RIM but it might take 2-3 years.

They're all fighting for developers so its pretty interesting to see where its going to end. Obviously iOS has the most although some notable devs are developing for Android and in some cases ahead of iOS. Microsoft was also reported in trying to get iOS devs to develop for Windows 8.
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Old Jan 3, 2013, 03:57 PM   #102
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Originally Posted by imacintosh.0 View Post
Which is actually pretty interesting if you think about it. I wonder why Samsung was able to take such a lead in phones but is such a miserable failure in tablets.
Samsung was able to create a strong brand with Galaxy smartphones. It took a couple generations - I think the S2 is where it really caught on. Before that the only Android brands were the Droid and the Nexus and they were pretty weak brands.

You gotta give them credit. Smartphone branding is actually pretty difficult - especially when there are a ton of phones out there that all use the same OS you're using.
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Old Jan 3, 2013, 04:10 PM   #103
Michael Scrip
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Originally Posted by Liquorpuki View Post

Samsung was able to create a strong brand with Galaxy smartphones. It took a couple generations - I think the S2 is where it really caught on. Before that the only Android brands were the Droid and the Nexus and they were pretty weak brands.

You gotta give them credit. Smartphone branding is actually pretty difficult - especially when there are a ton of phones out there that all use the same OS you're using.
It's kinda like Windows PCs.

Dell, HP, Lenovo, Acer, Asus, Samsung, Toshiba... all running Windows.

They don't even have any cool skins to differentiate themselves.
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Old Jan 3, 2013, 04:11 PM   #104
TMay
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Originally Posted by irDigital0l View Post
Most people seem around still have iPhone 4/4S and Galaxy S III.

Think Google will only continue gaining its lead. Apple will slowly grow. Microsoft will also grow and overtake RIM but it might take 2-3 years.

They're all fighting for developers so its pretty interesting to see where its going to end. Obviously iOS has the most although some notable devs are developing for Android and in some cases ahead of iOS. Microsoft was also reported in trying to get iOS devs to develop for Windows 8.
http://www.zdnet.com/samsung-confirm...es-7000009329/

http://www.zdnet.com/samsung-tizen-b...os-7000009347/

I love how so many assume that Google is going to benefit from Android. I would note that Google's stated reason for getting into the handset business was "insurance" against some party not using the services on their handsets.

Amazon forks the Android OS, and almost certainly is building a handset, and after that, Google purchases Motorola under the threat of Motorola's IP being targeted at other Android OEM's.

Now we have Tizen as the next linux based mobile OS backed by Intel, Samsung and a few of the carriers. So, is Motorola the insurance against OEM's forking the OS, or is Google's ownership of Motorola the reason that Samsung is hedging its bets in a shotgun approach to OS's?

The Android OS ecosystem is still not fully baked, and few OEM's are profitable. There is little to prevent a current OEM from forking the system and providing competing services to Google.

Comparing business models, it would be easy to argue that Google wants to create a similar business model of controlling the software and hardware as Apple does, only doing so without offending the OHA members.

Geez, I wonder how that's going to work out.
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Old Jan 3, 2013, 05:03 PM   #105
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Originally Posted by Bezetos View Post
That's just simply not true. Or at least depends on what you mean.

You can get cheaper, older iPhones than new Samsung phones. There are also new Samsung phones that are more expensive than the new iPhone 5. But the new iPhone 5 is more expensive than some of the new Samsung phones (e.g. Samsung GS3).
Those who live in poverty choose the iPhone 4 in overwhelming numbers. It is the go-to status symbol of the welfare class. Minimum-wage types, on the other hand, splurge on the iPhone 4S.

Go to any sleazy run-down tavern or crack house, and all you see are Apple products. It's called mindshare.
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Old Jan 3, 2013, 05:07 PM   #106
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Originally Posted by iGrip View Post
Those who live in poverty choose the iPhone 4 in overwhelming numbers. It is the go-to status symbol of the welfare class. Minimum-wage types, on the other hand, splurge on the iPhone 4S.
I bought my iPhone 4 when it was still expensive.

Also, like how you blanket stereotype a whole bunch of people by the phones they happen to buy.

Also 2, if you're being sarcastic, then ignore this. It's hard to tell with some people around here...
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Old Jan 3, 2013, 05:12 PM   #107
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Originally Posted by spazzcat View Post
As Apple as done, and they done it with 1-2 phones. Also, Apple is keeping up with Samsung with only 1-2 phones and is keeping up with Android with 1-2 phones. How many phones does Samsung have and how many phones are now running Android?

Both comparisons cited in the article reflect installed base, not market share.

They include every iteration of the iPhone since the original. There are not one or two iPhone models included in those numbers, but instead, there are a dozen or more iPhone models included in the numbers.

And Apple is NOT keeping up with Samsung. Or Android. Apple is falling behind rapidly. And the cited study does not give the type of information necessary to know about current trends.
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Old Jan 3, 2013, 05:14 PM   #108
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Originally Posted by samcraig View Post
It's sad that you truly believe this to be true.
Yeah, what would I know about the time I spent selling phones for Verizon a few years ago. Sad indeed.

They did the same thing with Blackberry before Android devices became available on their network, in case you're wondering.
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Old Jan 3, 2013, 05:22 PM   #109
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pgiguere1 View Post
Especially if you look at profits share:

Image

The Hedge Fund and Mutual Fund and Pension Fund mangers love Apple customers like you. The more you guys buy full-price Apple gear, the more Ferraris and Caribbean Islands they get to buy.

Bragging that your chosen vendor makes outsized profits? What has the world come to?
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Old Jan 3, 2013, 05:25 PM   #110
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Originally Posted by TMay View Post
This is the "stickiness" that Apple has over Android OS phones. Some iPhone users bail, but the most recent data show 88% retention, the highest by far of any smartphone manufacturer, so in theory, and probably in fact, Apple has a shot at picking up disgruntled Android OS users, and significantly, so does Nokia.

Picking up a few percent of the other guys users every time a contract expires and a new iPhone on contract is purchased is likely what we are already seeing in the U.S.market, even against the spiffs and bogos prevalent amongst the Android OS smartphones offered by the carriers.

Slow but steady assimilation.
I do expect iOS to slowly gain marketshare in the US, until it is about even with Android. Android has pretty much topped out on the benefits of carrier support (my aforementioned push) and cutting edge hardware. Despite those significant advantages, they can't convert iOS users, and now that RIM has been more or less extinguished, it seems unlikely that Android will find any more room for growth.

Conversely, many of those users who were sold a low-mid range Android device on the cheap become interested in owning a better device, and iPhone is still the go-to name in smartphones. Very few regular consumers are able to name the Galaxy line.

There are still others like myself who saw great potential in Android, but became frustrated (in my case as a user and developer) and switched as a result.

Microsoft has been smart to offer sales representatives a commission bonus for pushing windows phone. Unfortunately for them, many reps still ignore their phones, and consumers couldn't be less interested.
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Old Jan 3, 2013, 05:36 PM   #111
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pgiguere1 View Post
Isn't profit what those manufacturers are after?

Yes. Exactly. All else be damned. That is the one and only thing that huge manufacturing companies like Apple aim towards. Anything and everything else is merely a means to that singular end.

That is what "those manufacturers" care about, but consumers and developers have a whole different set of concerns. Market share and installed base both figure into their concerns prominently, due to the influence these factors have on the potential of a robust ecosystem for the product.

Apple stockholders like big Mutual Funds love the high profits, but they are of little benefit to consumers.
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Old Jan 3, 2013, 05:53 PM   #112
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It can be, but if you negate the carrier discounts, Best Buy are selling a non-contract S3 at $699.99. Assuming that is a base-spec 16Gb version, that is $50 more than the base iPhone 5 without carrier discounts.
This must depend on the region, in the UK you can get a Samsung SIII for 395 GBP (~641 USD) and an iPhone 5 for 529 GBP (~859 USD), the latter from an Apple Store.
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Old Jan 3, 2013, 05:53 PM   #113
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GoldenJoe View Post
To many owners, it is just a dumbphone with youtube and internet access.
If you add Angry birds and fart apps, then you are describing the vast majority of smartphone owners, iPhone owners included.
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Old Jan 3, 2013, 05:58 PM   #114
TMay
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Originally Posted by GoldenJoe View Post
I do expect iOS to slowly gain marketshare in the US, until it is about even with Android. Android has pretty much topped out on the benefits of carrier support (my aforementioned push) and cutting edge hardware. Despite those significant advantages, they can't convert iOS users, and now that RIM has been more or less extinguished, it seems unlikely that Android will find any more room for growth.

Conversely, many of those users who were sold a low-mid range Android device on the cheap become interested in owning a better device, and iPhone is still the go-to name in smartphones. Very few regular consumers are able to name the Galaxy line.

There are still others like myself who saw great potential in Android, but became frustrated (in my case as a user and developer) and switched as a result.

Microsoft has been smart to offer sales representatives a commission bonus for pushing windows phone. Unfortunately for them, many reps still ignore their phones, and consumers couldn't be less interested.
Some Android handsets are cutting edge. Others, not so much.

Start talking about boutique features like NFC, and no, Apple isn't on the bleeding edge.

But, by Google's own statement, each and every iPhone 5 is a "premium" smartphone, no less than a Samsung Galaxy SIII. That's why Motorola is tasked by Google to create such a "premium" device to compete with the iPhone and the SIII.
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Old Jan 3, 2013, 06:13 PM   #115
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stevedun View Post
We are the 18.5%
Actually, this news is good to remind everybody that Apple is still the scrappy little underdog that was started by hippies in their Mom's garage.

----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by somethingelsefl View Post
Thank you for saying this. I think you're 100% correct. Since when does Ferrari want to have 100% market share of total car sales? They don't. They want to make a profit, and that means only a slim margin of total sales and an even slimmer margin of its segment.

The same is true of Apple. They just want more profit, and sometimes that means not have all of the market share.

Given that Apple makes the Ferrari of the Telephone, it makes sense to compare a small specialty manufacturer to a behemoth of an industrialist.

And your point that Ferrari doesn't want "100% market share of total car sales" cannot be disputed. It is absolute proof.

----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by absurdamerica View Post
In the US Market, where boutique and luxury items sell better than overseas...
iPhones are not boutique or luxury items. They are sold in all neighborhoods, including freaking Wall*Mart.
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Old Jan 3, 2013, 06:14 PM   #116
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Bragging that your chosen vendor makes outsized profits? What has the world come to?
The trick for vendors you suspect of such is to buy a bit of their stock as well. If you get the right amount, then the outsized profits will cause the stock to move enough to pay for your overpriced product needs. If, on the otherhand, the stock crashes due to no profits, you can get your webOS or Symbian, etc., device really really cheap on close out.
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Old Jan 3, 2013, 06:19 PM   #117
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Quote:
Originally Posted by David Sharpe View Post
Walmart selling Christmas stock

iPhone 5 - $127
iPhone 4S - $47
iPhone 4 - $.99

Regularly
iPhone 5 - $187

http://www.walmart.com/ip/Apple-iPho...tract/14675762
Damn that's cheap.
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Old Jan 3, 2013, 07:05 PM   #118
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Originally Posted by iGrip View Post
The Hedge Fund and Mutual Fund and Pension Fund mangers love Apple customers like you. The more you guys buy full-price Apple gear, the more Ferraris and Caribbean Islands they get to buy.

Bragging that your chosen vendor makes outsized profits? What has the world come to?
OMG WHAT HAS THE WORLD COME TO?!?1

That wasn't bragging though, it was simply observing the market. As an AAPL investor I'd be crazy not to. Should everyone who buys Apple product deny that they are a successful company by fear of looking like they brag?
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Old Jan 3, 2013, 07:19 PM   #119
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Quote:
Originally Posted by firewood View Post
The trick for vendors you suspect of such is to buy a bit of their stock as well. If you get the right amount, then the outsized profits will cause the stock to move enough to pay for your overpriced product needs. If, on the otherhand, the stock crashes due to no profits, you can get your webOS or Symbian, etc., device really really cheap on close out.

If only we could have such a fund for every item we'd like to purchase!
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Old Jan 3, 2013, 07:32 PM   #120
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Samsung was able to create a strong brand with Galaxy smartphones. It took a couple generations - I think the S2 is where it really caught on. Before that the only Android brands were the Droid and the Nexus and they were pretty weak brands.

You gotta give them credit. Smartphone branding is actually pretty difficult - especially when there are a ton of phones out there that all use the same OS you're using.
Definitely give them credit for making the galaxy line so popular.
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Old Jan 3, 2013, 08:00 PM   #121
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Samsung was able to create a strong brand with Galaxy smartphones. It took a couple generations - I think the S2 is where it really caught on. Before that the only Android brands were the Droid and the Nexus and they were pretty weak brands.

You gotta give them credit. Smartphone branding is actually pretty difficult - especially when there are a ton of phones out there that all use the same OS you're using.
The main blow was the iPhone 4S. Instead of seeing where the market is going obviously Apple released the iPhone 4 again with upgraded internals only. Of course it was selling like hot cakes. But it really was not a good phone to compete with Samsung.
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Old Jan 3, 2013, 08:28 PM   #122
TMay
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The main blow was the iPhone 4S. Instead of seeing where the market is going obviously Apple released the iPhone 4 again with upgraded internals only. Of course it was selling like hot cakes. But it really was not a good phone to compete with Samsung.
And yet, Apple still has productions constraints, and Samsung still has an $8-$12 B marketing budget alongside its formidable capacity.

It looks like Apple will sell 50 Million iPhones this quarter and Samsung 100 to 125 million cellphones including smartphone models of which one model is the SIII.

Doesn't seem like you could make any assumption other than both are selling a lot of Smartphones, but it is entirely possible that Apple sells more smartphones than Samsung, and absolutely no feature phones.

Wouldn't that then support the need for Apple to make feature phones to compete? No, not really. There isn't any money in feature phones compared to Smartphones, probably why Apple makes quite a bit more income on iPhones than Samsung does on its whole output.
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Old Jan 3, 2013, 09:18 PM   #123
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The cheapest iPhone is $450? How so? You can get an iPhone for free. And subsidized up to $299, now?
I mean sticker price, without contract.
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Old Jan 3, 2013, 09:58 PM   #124
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Originally Posted by rendevouspoo View Post
iPhones can be gotten cheaper, or at the same price, than the Samsung phones.
True, but the monthly bill associated with the iPhone is steeper than a generic mobile (non-smart) phone. This is what's preventing folks in my area from purchasing one.
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