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Old Apr 7, 2014, 11:32 PM   #51
hiddenmarkov
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Originally Posted by Huntn View Post
Thanks! The death penalties are what are going to make this care bear pass I think.
well the carebearing can be good in eve as well.

I know you will hear the horror stories of gank fests. I tbh have carebeared for years with no issues since I cba to make time for null sec/0.0 commitments for a while now.

Basically fly with some common sense, don't run ships that scream gank me and it should go okay.

I also find not talking trash in local chat helps. YOu will at times meet the people who like to steal your wrecks. My philosophy of life is well....take them. Many use this to bait you. Or if you start to emo-rage in local, they get really interested in pushing your buttons more.
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Old Apr 8, 2014, 07:31 AM   #52
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well the carebearing can be good in eve as well.

I know you will hear the horror stories of gank fests. I tbh have carebeared for years with no issues since I cba to make time for null sec/0.0 commitments for a while now.

Basically fly with some common sense, don't run ships that scream gank me and it should go okay.

I also find not talking trash in local chat helps. YOu will at times meet the people who like to steal your wrecks. My philosophy of life is well....take them. Many use this to bait you. Or if you start to emo-rage in local, they get really interested in pushing your buttons more.
You mean like "naw naw you can't get me!" What is an example of a gank-me ship?
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Old Apr 8, 2014, 09:06 AM   #53
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Thanks! The death penalties are what are going to make this care bear pass I think.
I wouldn't say there's a penalty for dying in EVE, when compared to the benefits of living in EVE.

Here's what I did as an EVE newbie: I found a friendly, helpful group of folks living null-sec space. (Think wild west, where anybody can shoot anything at any time.) I built several ships for under one million ISK each (the in-game currency) and have participated in all sorts of activities. My skills aren't high enough for the ships and equipment that can deal high amounts of damage, but I can contribute by flying a small, fast ship that can "tackle" larger ships. That is, hold hostiles in place so the heavy hitters in my fleet can pound on them without them getting away or getting out of range.

I think my single largest share of loot was 200 million ISK. That's huge compared to my initial outlay, and just one of many shares I've gotten. I'm significantly net-positive right now. (Although not anywhere near the people with multiple billions of ISK.) I've lost 10 or 11 of those initial ships, and tried to learn from each one. It can be a bit discouraging being one of the first ships blown up during each encounter, but I focus on the group's success for my satisfaction. Sometimes even, I'm a key player - like in a recent encounter where I was the only one able to catch up to and tackle a singleton encroacher, who otherwise would have been able to get away. I actually survived that encounter, albeit with only about 20% of my health left.

Before I moved to null-sec, I did some high-sec space activities like mining. (High-sec is like a wild-west town with a police force. You can still be shot - that is, "ganked" - but law enforcement will show up in something like 5 to 20 seconds and attack your aggressors. You might or might not die during those seconds.) In an hour as a mining newbie I could make a few million ISK, plenty to pay for ships and equipment. I've never been gangked - all my ships have been worth less than any potential attacker's ship, so there's no profit in it for them.

So no, there's really no "death penalty" IMO. (I did buy a set of implants for about 100 million ISK so I could train my skills faster, and I do worry about losing those, but every time my ship has been blown up so far I've been able to make it back to home base in my escape pod without too much trouble. And for highly dangerous work, I have a clone without implants I can jump in to. That clone has indeed been blow up a couple times, but that's a pride thing, not monetary.)

As far as it being a time sink - yeah. But only because it's fun to play - as long as you realize it's a MMO game. I wouldn't advise trying to play it solo, no more than I would advise playing Monopoly solo.
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Old Apr 8, 2014, 09:20 AM   #54
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All good points above. The one thing that I would add is that you shouldn't let the 'death penalty' prevent you from giving it a try. While yes the consequences for dying can be pretty steep, the potential for actual loss make the whole experience much more meaningful. Think about most other MMOs: What do you lose when you die? usually nothing, or at least a nominal amount of gold or xp. So the experience of dying is actually meaningless.


Two things that make Eve Online great:

In Eve Online if your ship gets blown up its gone for good - this makes the decision to fight much more important. Yes the risks are higher but so are the rewards. Does pvp in WOW or WOT get your blood pumping? If not then try PVP in Eve...

Eve Online is a subscription based service, it costs around 12-15 dollars per month... If your good at the game and can generate enough space bucks, you can pay for your game time with the in game currency.
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Old Apr 8, 2014, 09:54 AM   #55
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Thanks Elistan and Hanker for the info!

As far as death penalty, I understand it raises the tension level, but that is not what I'm really looking for. In other MMO's I equate it to being at L60 and being knocked back to L10 and having to build back up again. I much prefer a setup like Planetside where there is no significant equipment investment, that being knocked out takes you out of a battle for a period of time, but you don't have to raise millions of credits to buy another tank. Based on what I have experienced in that game, which I ultimately quit in favor of World of Tanks, Tier 10 tanks (top tier) cost about 9 million, and if they made me buy a new tank every time I got killed, I would not stay long. I don't know how much a big fancy EO ships costs and how much time it represents to acquire, but I could see myself getting discouraged. However I'm still thinking about it.

Regarding combat how is aiming handled, put the cursor on an enemy (designate) and shoot? Target specific systems? One thing about Planetside 2 that I came to dislike is having a futuristic tank that requires Kentucky windage to hit your target. In World of Tanks, there is no leading, you have a gunner who does the aiming, but you still have to put the cursor on a target and for long shots have to let it completely focus to ensure a hit. Let me correct that, for long shots on moving targets you must lead them. The skills of the crew on your tank make a difference as to your hit rate.

As I think of small fast ships, is EO a twitchy dog fighting type game or no?

And my understanding is that it is in essence one big server?

Crap, I'm wishy washy. I may try it, but I have serious misgivings about death penalties. If I do, I'd use the 2 week trial, and would need to find a good starter guide. With my first big loss of resources I could see myself packing up and going home.
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Old Apr 8, 2014, 10:10 AM   #56
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Losing Ships: You can spend as much in game money as you want on a ship. I personally buy cheap stuff that I don't care if I lose. I make up for the lower quality equipment with skill, which makes me competitive with other pilots. Every once in awhile I splurge and buy an expensive ship to go shooting in. Its fun but I usually end up getting blown up.

Its not that much of a grind to replace lost things if you play smart. People aren't kidding that you shouldn't fly things you cant afford to lose. Also every time I undock I assume I'm going to get blown up.

Combat: Its not a twitchy game really. The games HUD or Overview as we call it gives us targets and ranges and other necessary information. You decide who to engage and what of your weapons and other items to activate.

Server: everyone (except china I think) in the world are on the same server. This means that you can directly affect the whole community in a positive or negative way.

Heres a link to a 21 day free trial. Anyone can use it: https://secure.eveonline.com/trial/?...b&action=buddy

Here is a cool video (albeit) a bit corny that helped me get into the game: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oq2oxt7Nrxo

And another one that helps explain a bit, 10 things to know about the game: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c0M7jkv3xkQ
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Old Apr 8, 2014, 10:48 AM   #57
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Originally Posted by Huntn View Post
Thanks Elistan and Hanker for the info!

As far as death penalty, I understand it raises the tension level, but that is not what I'm really looking for. In other MMO's I equate it to being at L60 and being knocked back to L10 and having to build back up again. I much prefer a setup like Planetside where there is no significant equipment investment, that being knocked out takes you out of a battle for a period of time, but you don't have to raise millions of credits to buy another tank. Based on what I have experienced in that game, which I ultimately quit in favor of World of Tanks, Tier 10 tanks (top tier) cost about 9 million, and if they made me buy a new tank every time I got killed, I would not stay long. I don't know how much a big fancy EO ships costs and how much time it represents to acquire, but I could see myself getting discouraged. However I'm still thinking about it.
The ships I fly against other players cost 1 million or less. I expect to lose those often. The ship I fly against NPC rats (aka, pirates) costs 100 million and I don't expect to lose that. A single encounter can be worth 10 million to 100+ million. Basically, anything I lose I can fairly easily replace. The most expensive ship I've ever personally fought against was worth 1.4 billion. 50+ billions ships exist too, from what I understand.

Quote:
Regarding combat how is aiming handled, put the cursor on an enemy (designate) and shoot? Target specific systems? One thing about Planetside 2 that I came to dislike is having a futuristic tank that requires Kentucky windage to hit your target. In World of Tanks, there is no leading, you have a gunner who does the aiming, but you still have to put the cursor on a target and for long shots have to let it completely focus to ensure a hit. Let me correct that, for long shots on moving targets you must lead them. The skills of the crew on your tank make a difference as to your hit rate.

As I think of small fast ships, is EO a twitchy dog fighting type game or no?
Combat is handled algorithmically - no manual aiming. You select an enemy ship, target lock them, and activate your weapons and defenses, and the damage dealt is calculated based on a lot of different things. How each ship is equipped, your skill levels, your opponent's skill levels, which modules are activated, absolute and relative speeds, ship sizes, distance between them, etc. It's mentally twitchy in that a lot can be going on at once, especially with two fleets of a dozen ships each are fighting each other. Fighting rats is usually a pretty low-key activity though.

Manual flying is possible, but somewhat awkward. Most ship movements are handled by commands such as "warp to," "orbit at X km," "keep distance at X km," and "approach."

Quote:
And my understanding is that it is in essence one big server?
Yes, it's a single-shard universe. Each solar system is handled by its own server node. (There's an entirely separate EVE universe server for China, though, and there's also a test server.)

Quote:
Crap, I'm wishy washy. I may try it, but I have serious misgivings about death penalties. If I do, I'd use the 2 week trial, and would need to find a good starter guide. With my first big loss of resources I could see myself packing up and going home.
During the 14-day trial, I'd say you're unlikely to lose anything big. The tutorial missions give you stuff. The game encourages PvP conflict, except against new players. Also, beware scams - unless you know the person, don't believe anything anybody tells you.
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Old Apr 8, 2014, 11:10 AM   #58
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Originally Posted by Hanker View Post
Losing Ships: You can spend as much in game money as you want on a ship. I personally buy cheap stuff that I don't care if I lose. I make up for the lower quality equipment with skill, which makes me competitive with other pilots. Every once in awhile I splurge and buy an expensive ship to go shooting in. Its fun but I usually end up getting blown up.

Its not that much of a grind to replace lost things if you play smart. People aren't kidding that you shouldn't fly things you cant afford to lose. Also every time I undock I assume I'm going to get blown up.

Combat: Its not a twitchy game really. The games HUD or Overview as we call it gives us targets and ranges and other necessary information. You decide who to engage and what of your weapons and other items to activate.

Server: everyone (except china I think) in the world are on the same server. This means that you can directly affect the whole community in a positive or negative way.

Heres a link to a 21 day free trial. Anyone can use it: https://secure.eveonline.com/trial/?...b&action=buddy

Here is a cool video (albeit) a bit corny that helped me get into the game: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oq2oxt7Nrxo

And another one that helps explain a bit, 10 things to know about the game: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c0M7jkv3xkQ
Good to know, and thanks for the 21 day trial link. Actually I had all ready watched the Butterfly Effect EO video, makes the game sounds interesting.

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The ships I fly against other players cost 1 million or less. I expect to lose those often. The ship I fly against NPC rats (aka, pirates) costs 100 million and I don't expect to lose that. A single encounter can be worth 10 million to 100+ million. Basically, anything I lose I can fairly easily replace. The most expensive ship I've ever personally fought against was worth 1.4 billion. 50+ billions ships exist too, from what I understand.



Combat is handled algorithmically - no manual aiming. You select an enemy ship, target lock them, and activate your weapons and defenses, and the damage dealt is calculated based on a lot of different things. How each ship is equipped, your skill levels, your opponent's skill levels, which modules are activated, absolute and relative speeds, ship sizes, distance between them, etc. It's mentally twitchy in that a lot can be going on at once, especially with two fleets of a dozen ships each are fighting each other. Fighting rats is usually a pretty low-key activity though.

Manual flying is possible, but somewhat awkward. Most ship movements are handled by commands such as "warp to," "orbit at X km," "keep distance at X km," and "approach."



Yes, it's a single-shard universe. Each solar system is handled by its own server node. (There's an entirely separate EVE universe server for China, though, and there's also a test server.)



During the 14-day trial, I'd say you're unlikely to lose anything big. The tutorial missions give you stuff. The game encourages PvP conflict, except against new players. Also, beware scams - unless you know the person, don't believe anything anybody tells you.
NPC rat= computer opponent? How do you know what you are going to run into? In other words when flying against Rats, where would you go and not have to worry about your 100M investment by being jumped by players? You sound like you have confidence on a Rat mission this is all you will encounter?

Are you saying that combat is mostly static, there is no substantial maneuvering that makes much difference from a combat advantage standpoint?

For both of you:
How can you evaluate your chances before engagement, are you given a ship to ship analysis?

How much time do you fly solo, versus in the company of several wingmen?

Can you always warp out of a situation as it develops before shots are fired?

Are the in-game tutorials good?
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Old Apr 8, 2014, 11:29 AM   #59
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NPC rat= computer opponent?
Yes. Usually fairly weak, but there are some that are quite strong, especially in groups.

Quote:
How do you know what you are going to run into? In other words when flying against Rats, where would you go and not have to worry about your 100M investment by being jumped by players? You sound like you have confidence on a Rat mission this is all you will encounter?
Depends on where you are. If you're in highsec and flying a non-blingy ship, then chances of you running into a player looking to kill you are low. In nullsec, there is always a chance - but you have local chat and intel channels to stay ahead of players looking to do you harm - you just "get safe" before they get to you.

Quote:
Are you saying that combat is mostly static, there is no substantial maneuvering that makes much difference from a combat advantage standpoint?
PVP combat is always fluid, but not twitchy.

Quote:
For both of you:
How can you evaluate your chances before engagement, are you given a ship to ship analysis?
No, you have to do that on the fly - or if you've gotten intel, research what they usually fly through their killboard.

Quote:
How much time do you fly solo, versus in the company of several wingmen?
I rarely fly solo, just because I prefer the company of others, and my alliance is currently involved in bloc-level war, so solo engagements are rare. We do some small gang stuff (around 10-15), as well as battles involving thousands.

Quote:
Can you always warp out of a situation as it develops before shots are fired?
If you are ratting, and paying attention, they usually, yes. But if they get "on grid" with you (withing a few hundred km) it may be too late to leave if you like your chances.

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Are the in-game tutorials good?
They are worth doing, as they cover the basics. It will take a lot longer to learn specific mechanics related to what you want to do.
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Old Apr 8, 2014, 12:12 PM   #60
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NPC rat= computer opponent? How do you know what you are going to run into? In other words when flying against Rats, where would you go and not have to worry about your 100M investment by being jumped by players? You sound like you have confidence on a Rat mission this is all you will encounter?
Yes, a "rat" is a computer opponent. There are guides to the toughness of rats based on where they're found, and what their location is called. The three rats in an asteroid belt I can handle on my own. The several dozen rats in a complex I'll do with several fleet mates.

Regarding other players, I fly with a fleet based in a null-sec system, so if another player enters the system we tend to know whether they're dangerous and we need to dock up, or we start hunting them ourselves.

In high-sec, anybody that attacks your 100m ISK ship without provocation will likely die to CONCORD (an NPC fleet of invulnerable ships) before you die to them. However, they can try to trick you into attacking them first or do something that makes yourself a legal target for them - as long as you know those tricks and avoid them, you're relatively safe. You'll maybe miss out on some of the loot because of them, but that's not the primary source of income when killing rats in high-sec anyway.

Quote:
Are you saying that combat is mostly static, there is no substantial maneuvering that makes much difference from a combat advantage standpoint?
PvP combat is not at all static. There's a lot of tactics to it, a lot of positioning, and a lot going on that you have to manage. It's just not hand-eye fast-twitch aiming, I mean.

There's a lot of pre-battle considerations, too. Where to fight, what to fight with, how to split up the enemy's fleet, etc.

Quote:
For both of you:
How can you evaluate your chances before engagement, are you given a ship to ship analysis?
A lot of that involves knowing the ships by name, and knowing what they can and cannot do well. I still don't have that knowledge down well, so I rely on the more experienced players to direct the flow of battle. (By convention, there's always an FC - fleet commander - who calls out targets and tactics.)

The ships I fly are fast but fragile, so I know they're likely to blow up. But it's still fun.

Quote:
How much time do you fly solo, versus in the company of several wingmen?
Hmm, probably 90% fleet 10% solo.

Quote:
Can you always warp out of a situation as it develops before shots are fired?
Sometimes. A warp scram bubble can prevent all warping within an area. And a warp scram module can prevent a single targeted ship from warping. (But it'll take some time to target the ship in question.)

Quote:
Are the in-game tutorials good?
So-so. There's also a player-run corp called EVE University that does a lot of new-player training, but I don't have personal experience with them except for reading their webpages.
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Old Apr 8, 2014, 03:55 PM   #61
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How about race advantages- opinions?

I've read these two links:

http://www.eve-academy.eu/kainsciono...FourRaces.html

http://bcastro369.hubpages.com/hub/E...Guide-to-Races
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Old Apr 8, 2014, 05:41 PM   #62
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There are zero differences between the races except for backstory purposes, and which system you start out in. I picked my race, bloodline and ancestry based on what best fit my own personality, and ended up in an NPC corp with some like-minded folk.

The tutorials where you start, where you get your first ships and stuff, are focused on ship types associated with that race, but you can do every race's tutorial missions. I haven't bothered with ships outside my race's, but eventually I'll get to them once I build up more proficiency with my current ships.
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Old Apr 8, 2014, 11:17 PM   #63
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There are zero differences between the races except for backstory purposes, and which system you start out in. I picked my race, bloodline and ancestry based on what best fit my own personality, and ended up in an NPC corp with some like-minded folk.

The tutorials where you start, where you get your first ships and stuff, are focused on ship types associated with that race, but you can do every race's tutorial missions. I haven't bothered with ships outside my race's, but eventually I'll get to them once I build up more proficiency with my current ships.
Proficiency as in combat tactics? A valuable guide might be a big help in that area.
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Old Apr 9, 2014, 01:23 AM   #64
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Proficiency as in combat tactics? A valuable might be a big help in that area.
Proficiency in two ways - familiarity with the ships as a human player, and skill levels for my character. (Skills have five levels, and ships give bonuses per skill in the class of that ship. For example, 5% extra speed per skill level in Gallente Frigates.)
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Old Apr 9, 2014, 07:31 AM   #65
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Proficiency in two ways - familiarity with the ships as a human player, and skill levels for my character. (Skills have five levels, and ships give bonuses per skill in the class of that ship. For example, 5% extra speed per skill level in Gallente Frigates.)
That last reply was typed on my ipad and somehow I dropped out the word guide as in valuable guide would be nice.
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Old Apr 9, 2014, 09:16 AM   #66
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Thanks for the help! I've been reading... I realize there is no substitute for experience, but how about the laser or drone factions as compared to the missile faction? How time consuming are ops? This is one of my fears. When playing MMORPGs I was ok with up to 1hr dungeons. I've gotten spoiled with 15 minute battles in WOTs. My impression is that's hard to solo in EO.
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Old Apr 9, 2014, 06:05 PM   #67
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Thanks for the help! I've been reading... I realize there is no substitute for experience, but how about the laser or drone factions as compared to the missile faction? How time consuming are ops? This is one of my fears. When playing MMORPGs I was ok with up to 1hr dungeons. I've gotten spoiled with 15 minute battles in WOTs. My impression is that's hard to solo in EO.
Missiles are pretty much the king of PVE, but are fairly horrible at PVP because of explosion radius and delayed damage. Drones are good, but can be killed, leaving you with reduced or no dps. The turrets all have their strengths and weaknesses, and which one is better depends on the situation.

Ops vary wildly. NPC missions can take from a few minutes to an hour or so, while pvp fleets can be 15 min or 22 hours - it just depends on the nature of the op - nullsec sov ops usually take longer than most other types of fleets.

The longest fleet I've ever been on was the battle of HED-GP, which went on for 16 hours (note: when things take this long, it isn't 16 hours of sitting at the keyboard - game time slows down to ~10% of real time, so 1 min in game takes 10 in RL. This gives you time to do other things - take a shower, cook dinner, go to the store, etc.).
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Old Apr 10, 2014, 08:40 AM   #68
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I started the tutorials last night, nice graphics, it could just be the tutorials but it felt like this game is a huge time sink, a justifiable feeling? If so that's a negative.

In one of the tutorials I fought some pirates. It seems pretty straight forward, lock and shoot. Are there any tactics involved in combat, such as increase or decrease range or is it a matter of what equipment is turned on or off or cycled in a certain way?
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Old Apr 10, 2014, 05:12 PM   #69
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I started the tutorials last night, nice graphics, it could just be the tutorials but it felt like this game is a huge time sink, a justifiable feeling? If so that's a negative.
It can be a huge time sink, if you let it. Skills train in real time, online or not, so you don't have to grind to improve.

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In one of the tutorials I fought some pirates. It seems pretty straight forward, lock and shoot. Are there any tactics involved in combat, such as increase or decrease range or is it a matter of what equipment is turned on or off or cycled in a certain way?
Range, speed and other variables are determined by what you are fighting and what weapons you are using. Each type of rat, determined by their faction, are vulnerable to a different damage type, and deal a certain damage type.
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Old Apr 10, 2014, 06:31 PM   #70
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It can be a huge time sink, if you let it. Skills train in real time, online or not, so you don't have to grind to improve.



Range, speed and other variables are determined by what you are fighting and what weapons you are using. Each type of rat, determined by their faction, are vulnerable to a different damage type, and deal a certain damage type.
Got a guide for that? Thanks!
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Old Apr 11, 2014, 09:08 AM   #71
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Got a guide for that? Thanks!
The in-game organization EVE University has a lot of online resources and in-game training for new players.
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Old Apr 11, 2014, 09:37 AM   #72
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Got a guide for that? Thanks!
Close. Here is a kind of quick reference guide for many different aspects, but you still need an understanding of different ships and modules to use it correctly, and there is no guide for that (that I know of). This guide will help you determine what ammo to use, e.g. if you are using blasters (short-range hybrid turret) on a gallente ship, the highest damage is Anitmatter, but also the shortest range, or if you are fighting Angel Cartel rats, you'll want to tank for Explosive and Kinetic damage while dealing the same.

If you decide to try it out, get to know the Show Info page for different ships/items, as it lists bonuses there as well as the specific attributes.
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Old Apr 11, 2014, 02:14 PM   #73
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Eve - the beginners guide to making ingame currency

http://greedygoblin.blogspot.co.uk/p...es-in-eve.html
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Old Apr 12, 2014, 08:07 AM   #74
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Close. Here is a kind of quick reference guide for many different aspects, but you still need an understanding of different ships and modules to use it correctly, and there is no guide for that (that I know of). This guide will help you determine what ammo to use, e.g. if you are using blasters (short-range hybrid turret) on a gallente ship, the highest damage is Anitmatter, but also the shortest range, or if you are fighting Angel Cartel rats, you'll want to tank for Explosive and Kinetic damage while dealing the same.

If you decide to try it out, get to know the Show Info page for different ships/items, as it lists bonuses there as well as the specific attributes.
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Wow, guys thanks for these links! I was thinking there might be a similar experience to Eve availabe in a solo stand alone game, but after researching this a bit, I don't think there is. However I'm keeping an eye on Star Citizen.
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Old May 3, 2014, 06:55 PM   #75
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eve is an MMO, in case you haven't heard of what MMO means... it stands for MASSIVE MULTIPLAYER ONLINE. therefore if you want to solo... expect to be bored... any mmo that delivers a good solo experience should be renamed to single player with online authentication.

in eve solo... you can chat, mine asteroids to make your virtual wallet bigger... you can do missions... which is repetitive... or you can trade... not much else really... i guess you can explore but you can't go far without leaving secure space.

anyways guys... le omg fanfest trailer.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yFTUazuGdTw

also for those looking into eve, not sure whether you want to play or not, here's a great article/review

http://www.polygon.com/features/2014...rilling-boring

Last edited by soulsyphon; May 3, 2014 at 07:08 PM.
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