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Old Oct 7, 2013, 04:25 PM   #26
thekev
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Originally Posted by ThisIsNotMe View Post
Health insurance (worked) perfectly fine.

You cost the system more, you are charged more.
You want a high deductible and low premium? Sure, go for it.

Sadly Obamacare is DESTROYED this system for something that will cost 99% of the population more so that 1% can save money.
It was okay for you so it must have been okay for all but 1% of the population?
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Old Oct 7, 2013, 04:48 PM   #27
AustinIllini
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Originally Posted by ThisIsNotMe View Post
Health insurance (worked) perfectly fine.

You cost the system more, you are charged more.
You want a high deductible and low premium? Sure, go for it.

Sadly Obamacare is DESTROYED this system for something that will cost 99% of the population more so that 1% can save money.
If an uninsured person goes into a surgeon's office with a pain in his stomach, the doctor will refuse to touch them because the person is uninsured. Some time later, when said person's appendix explodes, they go into the ER at 11 PM on a Sunday and need emergency surgery. Under our current system we, the taxpayers, just got ****ed because we have to pay for Joe uninsured's surgery.

This system does not work in any sense.

Look man, I'm not a big Obamacare fan, but I'm realistic: Obamacare is a noble attempt to fix a broken system.

----------

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It was okay for you so it must have been okay for all but 1% of the population?
Funny he probably won't pay an extra dime he wouldn't have paid otherwise. If he's insured through his employer, he as nothing to worry about.
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Old Oct 7, 2013, 04:52 PM   #28
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They mostly do here in the UK.
I had an expensive operation 4 months ago which required a lot of post operative care.
Around 5k for the operation and another 3k in post-op care.

Cost to me over my premium: 100 excess.
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Old Oct 7, 2013, 04:54 PM   #29
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They mostly do here in the UK.
I had an expensive operation 4 months ago which required a lot of post operative care.
Around 5k for the operation and another 3k in post-op care.

Cost to me over my premium: 100 excess.
Guess what, private healthcare works better when it has decent public competition.
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Old Oct 7, 2013, 05:01 PM   #30
octatonic
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Guess what, private healthcare works better when it has decent public competition.
Not sure I completely agree with that.
Certainly I could have had the operation on the NHS but I'd still be waiting for the operation now, as it wasn't classed as 'urgent'- despite being in constant, debilitating pain.
This isn't a comment on NHS staff- who are doing a great job- but the current waiting times are quite ridiculous.

I don't think the UK system works as well as the Australian system (where I grew up).
In Oz you get a small tax break (roughly equivalent to the cost of private health cover) if you earn over a certain amount which acts as an incentive for people who earn good money to take themselves out of the public health system, leaving resources for people who need them.
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Old Oct 7, 2013, 05:04 PM   #31
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Each of these is either false or misleading.

[All comments pre-Obamacare, but not necessarily solved by the ACA.]

Quote:
The short answer is that health insurance covers specific conditions rather than blanket treatment. Health insurers are allowed to decline payment for treatment for a large number of reasons including:

Pre-existing conditions. Have you gone to a doctor for a headache in the past five years? If so, your insurance probably won't cover any head trauma, strokes, migraines, etc.
This is not true. Insurers could deny the writing of new policies based on pre-existing conditions, not drop or refuse you if you had one and had creditable coverage.

Quote:
B]Preventative medicine and tests[/B]. Do you have a strange lump on your arm that keeps growing and changing shape or color? Insurance probably won't cover an MRI or a biopsy to determine if it's cancer. You'll have to wait until you're hospitalised, likely in the emergency room, before your insurance will deem that the treatment is necessary.

Here's the kicker: if you go to the doctor for that lump, your insurance company will remove cancer treatment from your insurance policy when you renew. After all, it's a pre-existing condition.
This is complete nonsense, totally untrue.

Quote:
Insurance companies can state that they will only cover the least expensive form of treatment, as opposed to the most effective form of treatment. Do you need chemotherapy to survive? Tough luck.
This would mean that insurance companies could elect to reject paying for treatments that were recognized as the 'standard of care' and choose to only pay for the cheapest one. This is also false.

Quote:
Insurance companies can drop you in the middle of treatment if you reach your annual policy renewal date.
It's possible if the plan you were on was cancelled, and you elected not to maintain creditable coverage, then this might happen. The real world issue would be that your plan was replaced by one you could not afford and you elected to go off coverage. This could not happen on a group plan due to restrictions related to COBRA.

Quote:
Insurance companies will not cover a person with a chronic illness. If you have a chronic illness, you will not be able to find an individual insurance plan at any price. Your only choice is to find a job that includes health insurance.
Diabetes is a chronic illness. So is hypertension. I do think some self-employed people have these. Again, this would only be related to getting coverage in the first place. And there are few chronic illnesses that would prevent coverage, most would lead to higher premiums (unless you are on group).

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Obamacare addresses a number of these issues, but it's nowhere near perfect.
This is true, actually. But the real problem with the ACA is that is does nothing to address the 50-state problem that plagues the American insurance market. Fire, health, flood, casualty, etc. all of it. In the US, each state is a market unto itself. It's completely idiotic, but is a legacy of the federalism in the US Constitution. Ironically, the republicans claim they want to do away with this, even though it is completely against their "beliefs."

It also does not address well the unequal position between the individual and group markets, as relates to pricing. As more people are shoved onto the exchanges, these defects are going to be the real problem with the ACA. People who had great insurance are going to be forced into buying the mediocre insurance they can afford. Those people will greatly outnumber the uninsured who gain coverage, more drama will ensue and both parties will blame the other.

Further reading if you really want to understand the interlocking mess that we have in the US would include the following legislation: COBRA, HIPAA/HITECH, ERISA and of course the ACA.
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Old Oct 7, 2013, 05:08 PM   #32
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Originally Posted by Mebsat View Post
People who had great insurance are going to be forced into buying the mediocre insurance they can afford. Those people will greatly outnumber the uninsured who gain coverage,
Source

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Originally Posted by octatonic View Post
Not sure I completely agree with that.
Certainly I could have had the operation on the NHS but I'd still be waiting for the operation now, as it wasn't classed as 'urgent'- despite being in constant, debilitating pain.
It is much, much better than what you get in the US without health insurance.
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Old Oct 7, 2013, 05:12 PM   #33
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Originally Posted by Eraserhead View Post
Source[COLOR="#808080"]

It is much, much better than what you get in the US without health insurance.
Having lived in the US twice now I agree.
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Old Oct 7, 2013, 05:54 PM   #34
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Originally Posted by Eraserhead View Post
Source
Since this is a prediction about the future, no source is yet available.

Also, check your browser address bar, this is MacRumors, not wikipedia.
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Old Oct 7, 2013, 06:16 PM   #35
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Funny he probably won't pay an extra dime he wouldn't have paid otherwise. If he's insured through his employer, he as nothing to worry about.
He claims to be a business owner, yet I got the impression that this wasn't a group plan. He also claimed that he was forced onto a different plan that cost much more for greater coverage of things he wouldn't need at his current age. It's in another thread.

The point I wanted to make was that he supplies enough detail to create a rant, yet not enough to allow for any amount of discussion. The 1% thing is either a fabricated statement or just another "the 1%" reference. The thing is that many people like that only drift into uninformative rants when they post in PRSI. The topic of healthcare reform has been a talking point for at least two decades. It is not a model for the world or any other first world country. I don't think it's necessarily bad to discuss whether this was the right approach, but I would not call it a good system.

When you appear healthy everything seems fine. If you suspect something is wrong and your doctor sends you off to get any kind of lab tests, the cost will vary depending on where you go. That part is fine. The problem is that it while it can be quite expensive at times, the facility may not be able to tell you what number will appear on that bill even if the procedures are known in advance. The other part of that is the while you appear healthy component. When everything seems fine, people are less likely to make use of preventative services if they are cost prohibitive. Last is the issue of mental health. I mention it because in some cases it really does affect others. The issue here is how healthcare is handled, not just whether or not you are required to purchase insurance. My lack of respect for the GOP on this issue stems from their lack of alternative offerings. They had an opportunity there with the iffy popularity of ACA. Nothing was proposed beyond a repeal.
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Old Oct 7, 2013, 07:52 PM   #36
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This is not true. Insurers could deny the writing of new policies based on pre-existing conditions, not drop or refuse you if you had one and had creditable coverage.
I should have been more specific: if you try to get health insurance after seeing a doctor for a headache, then yes, they can consider any head-related issues a pre-existing condition. The new ACA plans are not allowed to do reject applicants for pre-existing conditions.

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Originally Posted by Mebsat View Post
This is complete nonsense, totally untrue.
I don't know what to tell you. It's not nonsense. Premium plans and the new exchange plans cover preventative care. Standard and budget health insurance plans do not.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mebsat View Post
This would mean that insurance companies could elect to reject paying for treatments that were recognized as the 'standard of care' and choose to only pay for the cheapest one. This is also false.
Insurance companies can, in fact, elect to only cover the least expensive treatment option. It's not false. Again, I don't know what to tell you other than to call an insurance company and ask them.

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Originally Posted by Mebsat View Post
It's possible if the plan you were on was cancelled, and you elected not to maintain creditable coverage, then this might happen. The real world issue would be that your plan was replaced by one you could not afford and you elected to go off coverage. This could not happen on a group plan due to restrictions related to COBRA.
You're right that group plans would provide security. However, if you're on an individual plan you're at the mercy of the insurance company when it comes time to renew your policy.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mebsat View Post
Diabetes is a chronic illness. So is hypertension. I do think some self-employed people have these. Again, this would only be related to getting coverage in the first place. And there are few chronic illnesses that would prevent coverage, most would lead to higher premiums (unless you are on group).
One major example: cancer survivors.
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Old Oct 7, 2013, 08:44 PM   #37
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It cost me a helluva lot more than that for a dab of salve and a gauze wrapping when I sliced my hand open and had to run to the emergency room. A basic dressing of the wounds with materials I could buy from the CVS down the street from my house cost me $2000.

And I had to pay it all because I was between insurance companies at the time.
This is another problem, Ive cut myself many times that needed stitches but have always seen my primary care Dr to take care of it. Lower copays and lower bills to Insurance co. HMO anyone??
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Old Oct 8, 2013, 02:07 AM   #38
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My lack of respect for the GOP on this issue stems from their lack of alternative offerings. They had an opportunity there with the iffy popularity of ACA. Nothing was proposed beyond a repeal.
Although to be fair when Clinton proposed reforms the did have an alternative offering. It is now known as Obamacare.
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Old Oct 8, 2013, 05:18 AM   #39
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Since this is a prediction about the future, no source is yet available.

Also, check your browser address bar, this is MacRumors, not wikipedia.
Points have to be sourced here too.
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Old Oct 17, 2013, 12:53 PM   #40
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Other insurance cover things with a maximum expense. After a certain amount of damage, a car is totaled. We don't spend $100k fixing a car worth $20k.

That principle doesn't really apply to the human body.
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Old Oct 17, 2013, 06:48 PM   #41
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I wonder why there are so many people working as support staff who seem to be doing paperwork all day. It seems it costs as much to collect payments as it does to perform the medical procedure.
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Old Oct 17, 2013, 06:50 PM   #42
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I wonder why there are so many people working as support staff who seem to be doing paperwork all day. It seems it costs as much to collect payments as it does to perform the medical procedure.
Profits have to be made. Obscene profits. It's for your own good.
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Old Oct 18, 2013, 01:25 AM   #43
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Other insurance cover things with a maximum expense. After a certain amount of damage, a car is totaled. We don't spend $100k fixing a car worth $20k.

That principle doesn't really apply to the human body.
That reminds me of another, prevention. If you don't take care of your car, insurance doesn't have to pay. Whether or not you did, you still have a chance to be rear ended. Meanwhile, taking care of your body will reduce health expenses down the road. But for an insurance company to think the investment to help you prepare will pay off, they need to expect you'll still be a customer in 10-20 years.
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Old Oct 18, 2013, 05:10 PM   #44
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A car doesn't crash by itself. A house doesn't set itself on fire. Personal possessions tend to be fine until the actions of somebody causing consequences.

People die regardless of what we do.
Also, how many times a year do you use your health insurance?

Not counting any sick visits, I annually have my yearly health checkup, eye checkup and 2x dental visits. There are 4 people in my family, so that's 16 visits per year, not sick visits, having my oldest get poked in the eye, 1 emergency surgery, 1 elective surgery, glasses & contacts, allergies requiring ER visits and medications...

Number of times I've used all other insurances combined in the past 8 years: 1 (car).

Life insurance, kind of by design, only covers you one time.

If you had multiple claims on car wrecks or homeowner's/ renter's insurance, you face getting dropped.
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Old Oct 18, 2013, 05:58 PM   #45
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Also, how many times a year do you use your health insurance?
Never. I'm lucky. We have the NHS.
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Old Oct 18, 2013, 06:35 PM   #46
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Never. I'm lucky. We have the NHS.
Just think about if you didn't.

How many visits per year would you have to make if you didn't have the NHS?
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Old Oct 19, 2013, 06:32 AM   #47
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How many visits per year would you have to make if you didn't have the NHS?
Gonna be honest, no idea. I usually only book an appointment when I have a problem.
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