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Old Jun 15, 2014, 10:01 AM   #226
Micky Do
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Originally Posted by Southern Dad View Post
Yes. You have to wait for them to open fire. In the United States we do not arrest people for thinking about shooting someone. We only arrest them if they do shoot someone. Now if he plots it with someone else we can call it Conspiracy to Commit. But if a person is walking down the street with a legally owned rifle until they shoot someone they have not committed a crime.

You also can't arrest someone for looking at an expensive vehicle, thinking about carjacking it. You have to wait until the crime is committed. Burglary, bank robbery, etc. Same deal.
It's a bit late then……

Which is why people can be arrested for carrying an offensive weapon, such as a loaded gun, without lawful reason in public in most countries these days. It saves a lot of hassle, shootouts, and lives.
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Old Jun 15, 2014, 10:42 AM   #227
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Which is why people can be arrested for carrying an offensive weapon, such as a loaded gun, without lawful reason in public in most countries these days. It saves a lot of hassle, shootouts, and lives.
But freedom!
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Old Jun 15, 2014, 10:54 AM   #228
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According to your chart, the murder rate even among US "non-Hispanic whites" - presumably, according to your preferred metric, the most law-abiding and saintly demographic - is still at least six times higher than the rate in the UK for all sections of society.
It's homicide rate, not homicide perpetuators. The sheer numbers for blacks is absolutely spilling over to other groups.

-Blacks are 39 times more likely to commit a violent crime against whites then vice versa, and 136 times more likely to commit a robbery.

-Blacks are seven times more likely than people of other races to commit murder, and eight times more likely to commit robbery.

-Blacks are three times more likely to use a hand gun, and twice more likely to use a knife.

-Forty-five percent of black crime is against whites, 43 against other blacks, and 10 percent against Hispanic.

-The best indicator of violent crime levels in an area is the percent of the population that is black and south american or Caribbean Hispanic.

So no, you can't compare Europe to the USA, because Europe on it's best day is not as diverse as the USA and has totally different problems than the USA. And the USA has one of the largest largely unprotected borders in the world, and our neighbor is a narco state, third world sewer.

http://neworleans.fbi.gov/ New Orleans FBI
http://www.fbi.gov/publications.htm FBI public publications
http://www.fbi.gov/ucr/ucr.htm FBI Uniform Crime Reports
http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/cvict.htm Department of Justice Statistics
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Old Jun 15, 2014, 10:57 AM   #229
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I don't think you answered my point.
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Old Jun 15, 2014, 11:04 AM   #230
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I don't think you answered my point.
Then you best restate your point because if your point is the white american population has a higher homocide rate than all of England, then you had best acknowledge those numbers are still fueled overwhelmingly by black and hispanic crime against white victims.

So what is your point?
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Old Jun 15, 2014, 03:56 PM   #231
Micky Do
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To reiterate…..

Quote:
Originally Posted by Southern Dad View Post
In the United States we do not arrest people for thinking about shooting someone. We only arrest them if they do shoot someone.

But if a person is walking down the street with a legally owned rifle until they shoot someone they have not committed a crime.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Micky Do View Post
It's a bit late then……

Which is why people can be arrested for carrying an offensive weapon, such as a loaded gun, without lawful reason in public in most countries these days. It saves a lot of hassle, shootouts, and lives.
Quote:
Originally Posted by samiwas View Post
But freedom!
The answer is on the previous page.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Micky Do View Post
Civilised countries don't have the firearms death rate, attitude and violence that you have wrought upon yourselves in the USA with your twisted adherence to a constitutional amendment enacted a couple of centuries ago. They have moved on since then.

Yet in the same countries, gun control measures make freedom to own and use an appropriate type of firearm easy enough for those who have a legitimate use for one.

Being a wannabe hero, paranoid, feeling challenged in the manhood department, or fearing the tyranny of government, are not legitimate reasons for owning a gun. Heck, in some of the most civilised countries the police don't routinely carry firearms.
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Old Jun 15, 2014, 04:27 PM   #232
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Originally Posted by Technarchy View Post
It's homicide rate, not homicide perpetuators. The sheer numbers for blacks is absolutely spilling over to other groups.

-Blacks are 39 times more likely to commit a violent crime against whites then vice versa, and 136 times more likely to commit a robbery.

-Blacks are seven times more likely than people of other races to commit murder, and eight times more likely to commit robbery.

-Blacks are three times more likely to use a hand gun, and twice more likely to use a knife.

-Forty-five percent of black crime is against whites, 43 against other blacks, and 10 percent against Hispanic.

-The best indicator of violent crime levels in an area is the percent of the population that is black and south american or Caribbean Hispanic.

So no, you can't compare Europe to the USA, because Europe on it's best day is not as diverse as the USA and has totally different problems than the USA. And the USA has one of the largest largely unprotected borders in the world, and our neighbor is a narco state, third world sewer.

http://neworleans.fbi.gov/ New Orleans FBI
http://www.fbi.gov/publications.htm FBI public publications
http://www.fbi.gov/ucr/ucr.htm FBI Uniform Crime Reports
http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/cvict.htm Department of Justice Statistics
Hateful white supremacist tosh that shows up ignorant bigotry. It adds nothing to the topic -

‘Downright scary’ Open Carry Texas gun lovers: They ‘crossed the line’

And it does nothing to answer skunk's point. Beside that, several countries in Europe, and elsewhere are at least as cosmopolitan as USA.

People of many ethnic backgrounds have long made up the communities of most developed countries. Live with it.
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Old Jun 15, 2014, 04:38 PM   #233
Technarchy
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Originally Posted by Micky Do View Post
Hateful white supremacist tosh that shows up ignorant bigotry.
Actually CDC and FBI crime statistics.

And I'm not white.
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Old Jun 15, 2014, 05:12 PM   #234
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Actually CDC and FBI crime statistics..
Those figures are tossed around all over the internet. But there doesn't seem to be an actual link to an official FBI or DOJ report backing them up.

It certainly is true that African-Americans have much higher rates as perpetrators of violent crime. They also have much higher rates as being victims of violent crime, including homicide. But the fact is that the vast majority of crime in "intra-racial" (ie. a member on a racial group murders another member of the same group.) According to the only official figures I could find, black-on-white homicide between strangers (where the victim and perpetrator were unknown to each other) made up about 20% of the total, and white-on-black was about 5%.

Consider the last figure carefully. Because if you know anything at all about statistics, you will see that - given the percentages of population - that figure is completely expected. If African-Americans make up 15% of the population, and whites make up 60% - then whites have a four times smaller "pool of black targets" to murder. (Sorry about the crude language, but it is the simplest way I could explain it.)

The rate of homicide among young African-American men is alarming. But it is frankly untrue to suggest that a majority of homicides are committed by unknown African-American men on white victims. Such cases are, relative to the huge overall homicide total, extremely rare. Most murders are committed on people of the same race, and more often than not are committed by someone known to the victim: a relative, co-worker, friend, etc.

There are many potential solutions to the epidemic of homicide and violence among young African-American men. But given a closer examination of the facts behind the statistics, I don't think middle-aged white men walking into Chipotle's or Starbucks packing heat is really the answer.

And, since we are on the subject of race, white men (of which I'm one) commit more than 75% of the mass shootings in this country. Since we make up less than 30% of the population, that suggests we are two-and-a-half times more likely to go on a shooting spree. But somehow that little nugget didn't manage to make it into the list of "statistics" you bandied about.

Last edited by vrDrew; Jun 15, 2014 at 05:19 PM.
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Old Jun 15, 2014, 06:42 PM   #235
Micky Do
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Originally Posted by Technarchy View Post
Actually CDC and FBI crime statistics.

And I'm not white.
In which case, more fool you for introducing ethnicity to the thread.

It is irrelevant, given that many (though by no means all) neighbourhoods, towns, cities, states and countries around the world have a diverse ethnic mix these days. The USA is far from unique in that respect.

USA is, however, unique in the developed world with its anachronistic gun laws….. along with a propensity to violence and a firearms homicide rate more akin to a third world country…….

And politically powerful vested interests lobbying for the freedom to put more firearms into paranoid communities.
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Old Jun 16, 2014, 02:11 AM   #236
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Originally Posted by Southern Dad View Post
Really? Now what will I do with all these titanium alien bullets I've been making?
Suppositories come to mind.

And I seem to recall that micky do comes from NZ.

KGB
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Old Jun 16, 2014, 11:02 AM   #237
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Suppositories come to mind.

And I seem to recall that micky do comes from NZ.

KGB

Oh; I know!
1) Market them under the name "Probe-pre-vent™"!
2) Sponsor 'Alien invasion week' on History channel
3) Run adds in the early half were aliens are kicking butt.
4) Wait for orders to roll in.
5) Profit!
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Old Jun 16, 2014, 01:30 PM   #238
Technarchy
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Originally Posted by vrDrew View Post

It certainly is true that African-Americans have much higher rates as perpetrators of violent crime.
True

Quote:
They also have much higher rates as being victims of violent crime, including homicide. But the fact is that the vast majority of crime in "intra-racial"
True

Quote:
Consider the last figure carefully. Because if you know anything at all about statistics, you will see that - given the percentages of population - that figure is completely expected. If African-Americans make up 15% of the population, and whites make up 60% - then whites have a four times smaller "pool of black targets" to murder.
That and the find that white Americans tend to not be looking for anyone to murder at all...according to statistics...

Quote:
The rate of homicide among young African-American men is alarming.
True

Quote:
But it is frankly untrue to suggest that a majority of homicides are committed by unknown African-American men on white victims.
No one said that.

Quote:
Most murders are committed on people of the same race, and more often than not are committed by someone known to the victim: a relative, co-worker, friend, etc.
True

Quote:
There are many potential solutions to the epidemic of homicide and violence among young African-American men.
Agreed

Quote:
I don't think middle-aged white men walking into Chipotle's or Starbucks packing heat is really the answer.
Agreed, but the two guys in the photo don't look middle aged.

Quote:
And, since we are on the subject of race, white men (of which I'm one) commit more than 75% of the mass shootings in this country.
Statistically small and nearly insignificant in the big picture of gun violence, and borderline racist because dozens of black men are gunned down in inner cities daily and no one cares. Only when one white nutter takes a pound of white flesh is the press and white america alarmed.

Quote:
Since we make up less than 30% of the population
Who is we? Are you referring to white people?

Per the census: European American 223,553,265 72.4 %

Fact remains. You want less violence in America, spend less time writing stupid laws that go no where, and focus the on the complete horror show going on in black america when it comes to education, nutrition, employment, marriage, and housing.

That will shrink America's violence more than anything Pelosi and Feinstein has ever conjured up.
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Old Jun 16, 2014, 02:07 PM   #239
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Fact remains. You want less violence in America, spend less time writing stupid laws that go no where, and focus the on the complete horror show going on in black america when it comes to education, nutrition, employment, marriage, and housing..
Well it looks like our disagreement comes own to two things:

1) What exactly counts as "middle-aged" (although I'll grant the two idiots at the Texas Chipotle probably count as "young adult.")

and

2) White "men" I define as adults. Whites may make up 70% of the population, but only half of them are male. And of that fraction, somewhat less than 85% count as adult. Ergo I guesstimated that us (meaning myself and others like me in that regard) make up a mere 30% of the population.

Dealing with the problems in the low-income, low eduction African-American community is probably beyond the scope of this discussion.

But lets suffice it to say that whatever problems that community does have, its probably not helped by the fact that there - in general - way too many guns (legal and otherwise) floating around.
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