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Old Aug 1, 2013, 11:13 PM   #76
sundragon
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Quote:
Originally Posted by maxosx View Post
So let's flip it.

Samsung produces a 7" tablet with a 1024 x 768 resolution and charges $330.

Apple produces a 7" tablet with a 1920 x 1200 resolution and charges $230.

We both know what would happen. Samsung would get massive heat from the Apple believers for charging so much for so little. It's as simple as that. One of the most important aspects of any phone / tablet / computer is it's display. That's what we look at every moment we are using it.

At a whopping $330 I don't think Samsung would enjoy the sales it is now.

And make NO mistake, I'm just as big of a sucker as anyone else, I bought an iPad mini the moment they were released.
You're just comparing specs - Not quality, which is way more important to most people. Apple agonizes over details that very few companies do - Samsung being one of the few, though Samsung tablets are some of the most over priced under spec'd tablets on the Android side of things.

But back to my point:

I own the 1st gen N7 - Bought it August when they first came out - If I had to do it all over again I would have gotten the Mini... Why?

I had to replace my N7 3 times because the screen came off, and the antenna stopped working. Jellybean was awful from 4.1 - 4.2.1 - which was 6 months until they released 4.2.2 - Bluetooth didn't work, wifi was spotty and stopped working altogether, the screen dimming would go up and down erratically - Enough that I purchased an app called LUX to correct something as basic as backlight control - Basically the Tablet was barely tolerable for the first 6 months till I rooted it and used a non Google kernel.

For example - Trim wasn't turned on by default so the tablet would become slow and buggy unless you flashed and reinstalled the OS/apps - They just fixed that in 4.3 a year later...

For $50-70 more - my roommates mini has been solid, no weird issues, nothing wrong no replacement.

I enjoy tinkering but my time is money - MUCH more than a silly $50-70 vs all the hours of writing on the Google forums to complain and calling Google to get an RMA, etc...

There is an adage: "You get what you pay for... In this situation it's right."

I love my Nexus 7 now (the third one has no screen issues) - with 4.2.2 that's rooted and unlocked with a 3rd party kernel - Franco (who has Trim turned on) it's great - but I pretty much beta tested the OS and the hardware for Google.

I've ordered a N7 2nd edition to play with (because I like do a little work with Android) and I'll probably get a Mini when they launch - but what I'll recommend is the Mini because I don't want to put my name on the line with friends who aren't tech savvy.

Last edited by sundragon; Aug 1, 2013 at 11:21 PM. Reason: grammar
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Old Aug 2, 2013, 12:18 AM   #77
maxosx
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sundragon View Post
You're just comparing specs - Not quality, which is way more important to most people. Apple agonizes over details that very few companies do - Samsung being one of the few, though Samsung tablets are some of the most over priced under spec'd tablets on the Android side of things.

But back to my point:

I own the 1st gen N7 - Bought it August when they first came out - If I had to do it all over again I would have gotten the Mini... Why?

I had to replace my N7 3 times because the screen came off, and the antenna stopped working. Jellybean was awful from 4.1 - 4.2.1 - which was 6 months until they released 4.2.2 - Bluetooth didn't work, wifi was spotty and stopped working altogether, the screen dimming would go up and down erratically - Enough that I purchased an app called LUX to correct something as basic as backlight control - Basically the Tablet was barely tolerable for the first 6 months till I rooted it and used a non Google kernel.

For example - Trim wasn't turned on by default so the tablet would become slow and buggy unless you flashed and reinstalled the OS/apps - They just fixed that in 4.3 a year later...

For $50-70 more - my roommates mini has been solid, no weird issues, nothing wrong no replacement.

I enjoy tinkering but my time is money - MUCH more than a silly $50-70 vs all the hours of writing on the Google forums to complain and calling Google to get an RMA, etc...

There is an adage: "You get what you pay for... In this situation it's right."

I love my Nexus 7 now (the third one has no screen issues) - with 4.2.2 that's rooted and unlocked with a 3rd party kernel - Franco (who has Trim turned on) it's great - but I pretty much beta tested the OS and the hardware for Google.

I've ordered a N7 2nd edition to play with (because I like do a little work with Android) and I'll probably get a Mini when they launch - but what I'll recommend is the Mini because I don't want to put my name on the line with friends who aren't tech savvy.
I do agree with many of your points.

Upon release I bought the original Nexus 7. In my case it was flawless, hence my experience was very enjoyable. But I should also qualify my statement by revealing I have been using Android since the very first G1 Google phone was released by T-Mobile. The point being I was suitably impressed with the improvements in the OS. I also had reasonable expectations based on past Android experience.

It's along that line of thinking (expectations) that caused my irritation with Apple for not giving us a better display, even if not as hi-res as retina, in the iPad mini. Yet I wasn't surprised since its a long standing Apple tradition to shortchange the customer with their first gen products. I could list example after example. They know exactly what they can cheat the customer out of and they do.


In my eyes Apple is a very talented, experienced maker of premium products. To get cheap with the mini's display is blatant greed. Or if they were bent on profit taking via a low res display, then at least price it at $299.

That aside, I'll just sit back and wait until Apple finally puts a higher res display in the mini. I'm very eager to dump this original with its unremarkable 163ppi screen.
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Old Aug 2, 2013, 02:17 AM   #78
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The iPad Mini in general, feels like a full sized tablet. It doesn't feel like it makes compromises even though it really does in every way possible. It compromises processing performance, screen resolution and memory but it gives you the full tablet experience. You don't feel like you got a 'smaller' tablet, you feel like you got 'the' tablet to have. The full sized iPad is almost as tedious to carry around as a MacBook Air. The Nexus 7 feels like a Nexus 4 that ate a mushroom from Super Mario.

The Mini? Ahh, it's just perfect.

Best tablet I ever owned and you wouldn't be able to pry it out of my cold dead kung-fu grip.

I have no idea what the iPad Mini 2 has in store, but if it's anything like the comparison between the iPad Mini and the 2012 Nexus 7, I'd go team Apple any day of the week.

I did like my Nexus 7 but I had to practically force myself to get it out of my backpack. My iPad Mini on the other hand, I used it more than I used my cell phone.
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Old Aug 2, 2013, 07:07 AM   #79
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I owned both the Samsung 10.1 and 8.0 tablets. The iPad 4 and Mini we Now are a much better experience, and believe me, I thought Apple was for fools prior to buying those devices. We don't need a hypothetical 7" Samsung tablet, because the Samsung Note 8.0 is close enough to the Mini. It costs more, and is confusing as hell. The camera lump on the back was really special. We bought Samsung's attempt to copy Apple TV at the same time, and it was everything reviewers said: leggy, laggy, laggy, with freeze thrown in. We had 3 Samsung reps standing at the "Samsung Experience" in Best Buy, and not one could figure out how the handwriting to text feature worked! A vendor from another company came over, and he was familiar with the tablet enough to show us. It took so many steps to open the program, that we forgot 10 minutes later. That was the end of our Samsung Experience.

The Mini is a fine tablet, and I would simply recommend you try one for yourself. We became Apple fans after buying their products, and weren't conned. I'm a buyer's remorse type, but haven't felt that for one second with the iPad 4 or Mini.
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Old Aug 2, 2013, 09:48 AM   #80
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Originally Posted by The Man View Post
The Nexus 7 isn't bad when you look at the specs. But does anyone know of Android has added TRIM support? I've heard about lots of Nexus 7 tablets becoming laggy after a while because apparently there is no garbage collection on the internal memory; and the more you fill it up and delete stuff, performance will degrade further.
http://www.extremetech.com/computing...-to-end-io-lag



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Old Aug 2, 2013, 02:58 PM   #81
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iPads just work I'll update my iPad 3 to a retina-Mini when it comes out, but I still want the new Nexus 7 to play with full (arm) Linux.
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Old Aug 2, 2013, 04:22 PM   #82
Essenar
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Originally Posted by m98custom1212 View Post
I own a Nexus 4. But good luck with the whole "fanboy" fetish. I hear it's really tough to get over that and live a real life.
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Old Aug 2, 2013, 06:29 PM   #83
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Quote:
Originally Posted by maxosx View Post
So let's flip it.

Samsung produces a 7" tablet with a 1024 x 768 resolution and charges $330.

Apple produces a 7" tablet with a 1920 x 1200 resolution and charges $230.

We both know what would happen. Samsung would get massive heat from the Apple believers for charging so much for so little. It's as simple as that. One of the most important aspects of any phone / tablet / computer is it's display. That's what we look at every moment we are using it.

At a whopping $330 I don't think Samsung would enjoy the sales it is now.

And make NO mistake, I'm just as big of a sucker as anyone else, I bought an iPad mini the moment they were released.
If Apple produces an iPad Mini 2 with no retina display and charges the current prices then I don't think you'll find anyone defending it. It will probably receive a fair amount of criticism. Yet to call the current Mini a con-job is a bit much. Sure, Apple probably could have pushed to have a retina display in the first-generation Mini, but the rumors and industry analysis indicate that the "perfect" technology that Apple was after wasn't ready at the time. Apple's obsession with making things thin and light is probably to blame.
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Old Aug 2, 2013, 06:49 PM   #84
maxosx
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Originally Posted by Ledgem View Post
If Apple produces an iPad Mini 2 with no retina display and charges the current prices then I don't think you'll find anyone defending it. It will probably receive a fair amount of criticism. Yet to call the current Mini a con-job is a bit much. Sure, Apple probably could have pushed to have a retina display in the first-generation Mini, but the rumors and industry analysis indicate that the "perfect" technology that Apple was after wasn't ready at the time. Apple's obsession with making things thin and light is probably to blame.
Respectfully you didn't read my original post carefully. I did not call the mini a con job. I was clearly referring to Steve Jobs tendency to exaggerate, using words to describe products as "Magical and Revolutionary" for example. Oh sure the iPad is an excellent, very nice device, but it's not Magical. He was well known for convincing people to believe nearly anything, it's an admirable skill, yet misleading. Let's face it, it's an American tradition to create misleading advertisements...thousands of companies do it, that's nothing new whatsoever.
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Old Aug 2, 2013, 08:16 PM   #85
m98custom1212
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Originally Posted by Essenar View Post
I own a Nexus 4. But good luck with the whole "fanboy" fetish. I hear it's really tough to get over that and live a real life.
Pretty Good Comeback..


You should really list Nexus 4 in your sig.. That way we would know you're not fanboy.

Plus, you haven't even used the Nexus 7 2013
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Old Aug 2, 2013, 08:49 PM   #86
Elit3
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Originally Posted by isephmusic View Post
earlier this year i bought a macbook pro. i liked it a lot but carrying it to college classes was a pain. im looking for something small to add to my notes. i had an asus transformer infinity and after about 5 apps it lagged to all hell. now im thinking 10 inch tablet is too much and i want something to add to paper+pencil not replace it. a 7 inch one is fine for me. i love watching youtube videos before bed and catching up on social media stuff or watching ted talks on comutes.

so between the 7 inch tablets the mini and the new nexus 7 catch my eye. the nexus 7 will be out for sale next week july 30 and it looks REALLY promising. the downside is i have now switched from being a hardcore android guy to apple. i have a macbook iphone and apple tv that all work together flawlessly .

i really dont know what to do. get the nexus 7 or wait for even just a press conference or release date of any new iPad
Don't wait for the iPad Mini 2, you'll be disappointed, Apple, like always give a slow leak of features, and even if it is retina, it won't compete with Nexus 7's screen, and it probably will leak more features. It is what Apple does, iPhone 5S will probably have NFC, even after what they said.
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Old Aug 2, 2013, 09:31 PM   #87
tech4all
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bitfidelity View Post
My Nexus 7 has obvious backlight bleed. I'm sick of ASUS's crap QA.
My Nexus 7 has no blacklight bleed.

Also what would you say about all the iPad QA issues?

Yellow tint

Backlight bleed

I'd love to hear your comments on the matter and why you would get a mini when Apple is also known to have QA issues?

Quote:
Originally Posted by bitfidelity View Post
The aspect ratio of your typical Android tablet is also ridiculous. I can't wait for the retina Mini.
That would be called an "opinion" sir/maam. Nothing more. Some prefer wider.

Quote:
Originally Posted by LostAggie View Post
The build quality on the 7 is suspect though...
So is the innovation of iOS.

Quote:
Originally Posted by HBP View Post
Apple sales will be fine though.

Apple doesn't want people going to Nexus.
Thumb resize.



Quote:
Originally Posted by sundragon View Post
You're just comparing specs - Not quality, which is way more important to most people. Apple agonizes over details that very few companies do - Samsung being one of the few, though Samsung tablets are some of the most over priced under spec'd tablets on the Android side of things.

But back to my point:

I own the 1st gen N7 - Bought it August when they first came out - If I had to do it all over again I would have gotten the Mini... Why?

I had to replace my N7 3 times because the screen came off, and the antenna stopped working. Jellybean was awful from 4.1 - 4.2.1 - which was 6 months until they released 4.2.2 - Bluetooth didn't work, wifi was spotty and stopped working altogether, the screen dimming would go up and down erratically - Enough that I purchased an app called LUX to correct something as basic as backlight control - Basically the Tablet was barely tolerable for the first 6 months till I rooted it and used a non Google kernel.

For example - Trim wasn't turned on by default so the tablet would become slow and buggy unless you flashed and reinstalled the OS/apps - They just fixed that in 4.3 a year later...

For $50-70 more - my roommates mini has been solid, no weird issues, nothing wrong no replacement.

I enjoy tinkering but my time is money - MUCH more than a silly $50-70 vs all the hours of writing on the Google forums to complain and calling Google to get an RMA, etc...

There is an adage: "You get what you pay for... In this situation it's right."

I love my Nexus 7 now (the third one has no screen issues) - with 4.2.2 that's rooted and unlocked with a 3rd party kernel - Franco (who has Trim turned on) it's great - but I pretty much beta tested the OS and the hardware for Google.

I've ordered a N7 2nd edition to play with (because I like do a little work with Android) and I'll probably get a Mini when they launch - but what I'll recommend is the Mini because I don't want to put my name on the line with friends who aren't tech savvy.
The only negative thing about my N7 is that it very spotty WiFi in my home. It turns off and on all the time. Very annoying. Besides that thought it's great.

I think iOS users put too much into 'quality' when the brains of their devices could be so much more IMO. Sure it's nice to have a quality device, which the N7 has. But if the OS is outdated and leaves a lot to be desired, then you're stuck with sexy out of date tablet. IMO at least.

Sometimes I think about getting a larger tablet, and consider an iPad. But just can't come to terms with iOS. As some say, it's a "mom's OS". Easy to use, but not much to it. No widgets, can't customize anything like you can in Android. I don't want a wall of icons, I want things that I can change to what I need at a given time.

Until Apple changes that, Android all the way.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sundragon View Post
You're just comparing specs - Not quality, which is way more important to most people. Apple agonizes over details that very few companies do - Samsung being one of the few, though Samsung tablets are some of the most over priced under spec'd tablets on the Android side of things.

But back to my point:

I own the 1st gen N7 - Bought it August when they first came out - If I had to do it all over again I would have gotten the Mini... Why?

I had to replace my N7 3 times because the screen came off, and the antenna stopped working. Jellybean was awful from 4.1 - 4.2.1 - which was 6 months until they released 4.2.2 - Bluetooth didn't work, wifi was spotty and stopped working altogether, the screen dimming would go up and down erratically - Enough that I purchased an app called LUX to correct something as basic as backlight control - Basically the Tablet was barely tolerable for the first 6 months till I rooted it and used a non Google kernel.

For example - Trim wasn't turned on by default so the tablet would become slow and buggy unless you flashed and reinstalled the OS/apps - They just fixed that in 4.3 a year later...

For $50-70 more - my roommates mini has been solid, no weird issues, nothing wrong no replacement.

I enjoy tinkering but my time is money - MUCH more than a silly $50-70 vs all the hours of writing on the Google forums to complain and calling Google to get an RMA, etc...

There is an adage: "You get what you pay for... In this situation it's right."

I love my Nexus 7 now (the third one has no screen issues) - with 4.2.2 that's rooted and unlocked with a 3rd party kernel - Franco (who has Trim turned on) it's great - but I pretty much beta tested the OS and the hardware for Google.

I've ordered a N7 2nd edition to play with (because I like do a little work with Android) and I'll probably get a Mini when they launch - but what I'll recommend is the Mini because I don't want to put my name on the line with friends who aren't tech savvy.
Quote:
Originally Posted by maxosx View Post
So let's flip it.

Samsung produces a 7" tablet with a 1024 x 768 resolution and charges $330.

Apple produces a 7" tablet with a 1920 x 1200 resolution and charges $230.

We both know what would happen. Samsung would get massive heat from the Apple believers for charging so much for so little. It's as simple as that. One of the most important aspects of any phone / tablet / computer is it's display. That's what we look at every moment we are using it.

At a whopping $330 I don't think Samsung would enjoy the sales it is now.

And make NO mistake, I'm just as big of a sucker as anyone else, I bought an iPad mini the moment they were released.
This is very true. Anything Apple does or doesn't do will be justified in the eyes of iOS boy/girl. They could make the iPad mini 2 slightly thinner and nothing else, and they will rave about it and be first in line to get it because it's smaller. If Samsung did that, you'd see the typical BS comments I expect to see from certain people.

Samsung no retina? THEY SUCK!
Apple no retina? YOU DON'T NEED RETINA!

I'm gonna LOL if the mini doesn't have retina. And feel a bit bad for those who actually buy the thing if it specs from last year.
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Old Aug 2, 2013, 09:59 PM   #88
FrankB1191
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Start laughing, because I bought a second Mini last week. I couldn't give a rat's butt about the Nexus 7, or any letterbox tablet that small. Too much scrolling in landscape on the web, but I guess it's good for most movies. That's just me, and I don't mind being laughed at.

P.S. I'm getting 12 hours and more on my Mini between charges. That's full time wifi, and about 65-70% brightness. I've had tablets with short battery life, and it's not fun watching the battery meter tick downward rapidly. Samsung Note 8.0 being the worst in this regard.....
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Old Aug 3, 2013, 05:58 AM   #89
iMies
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Originally Posted by FrankB1191 View Post
Too much scrolling in landscape on the web, but I guess it's good for most movies.
I concur. While surfing, I use my retina iPad in portrait, but my son's mini in landscape and in this 4:3 reigns.

Yet I want a new Nexus 7 to play with...
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Old Aug 3, 2013, 07:49 AM   #90
sundragon
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Originally Posted by maxosx View Post
Apple would be proud, you actually believe what you just wrote. The well worn plastic excuse is completely irrelevant. Side by side with my iPad mini the quality is every bit as good. But Apple has you and thousands conned into thinking if it's not aluminum it's inferior. Smooth? Obviously you've never touched a Nexus 7.2. Between that comment and the refrain "it just works" I'd have to say Apples greatest accomplishment is influencing their worshipers to be evangelists.
Hello, I have - both Nexus 7 1 and 2

One issue - You're comparing the Nexus 7 2nd gen to the current gen iPad Mini which is at best an unfair comparison - The current iPad mini came out to compete with the first gen Nexus 7 - Which was FAAAAAAAAAAR from smooth... The cheap NAND memory they used made me think that my Nexus 7 (1st gen) wasn't beta tested before launch - It took rooting, unlocking, and Franco Kernel to get it to work smoothly - bugs and screen separation aside.


I've played with my roommates now year old iPad Mini and guess what - the screen is just fine - It's not a HUGE difference and it does just work, and it didn't need to be replaced or have major issues for the first 6 months (bluetooth, wifi, screens coming off)

People buy Apple products because this kind of crap doesn't happen, they also buy Apple products because they do just work - no complicated rooting, unlocking, and figuring out kernels etc.

The ecosystem is also important.

I just got the 2nd gen Nexus 7 32GB and it's what the first one should have been. Smooth, solid, and it works.

/sarcasm

I'm glad I paid $249 (at launch of the 1st gen N7) to beta test the first gen for Google for a year...

/end sarcasm

Get my point.

P.S. Quality and attention to detail is something I assign a lot of value - A lot of people do the same - The new 7 is much better and it's sales will show that

----------

Quote:
Originally Posted by tech4all View Post
My Nexus 7 has no blacklight bleed.

Also what would you say about all the iPad QA issues?

Yellow tint

Backlight bleed

I'd love to hear your comments on the matter and why you would get a mini when Apple is also known to have QA issues?



That would be called an "opinion" sir/maam. Nothing more. Some prefer wider.



So is the innovation of iOS.



Thumb resize.





The only negative thing about my N7 is that it very spotty WiFi in my home. It turns off and on all the time. Very annoying. Besides that thought it's great.

I think iOS users put too much into 'quality' when the brains of their devices could be so much more IMO. Sure it's nice to have a quality device, which the N7 has. But if the OS is outdated and leaves a lot to be desired, then you're stuck with sexy out of date tablet. IMO at least.

Sometimes I think about getting a larger tablet, and consider an iPad. But just can't come to terms with iOS. As some say, it's a "mom's OS". Easy to use, but not much to it. No widgets, can't customize anything like you can in Android. I don't want a wall of icons, I want things that I can change to what I need at a given time.

Until Apple changes that, Android all the way.





This is very true. Anything Apple does or doesn't do will be justified in the eyes of iOS boy/girl. They could make the iPad mini 2 slightly thinner and nothing else, and they will rave about it and be first in line to get it because it's smaller. If Samsung did that, you'd see the typical BS comments I expect to see from certain people.

Samsung no retina? THEY SUCK!
Apple no retina? YOU DON'T NEED RETINA!

I'm gonna LOL if the mini doesn't have retina. And feel a bit bad for those who actually buy the thing if it specs from last year.
Um, Samsung Tablets are awful compared to the Nexus 7 1st gen and the iPad Mini... There is no comparison and their tablet sales show that. They just released two "new" models with dual core processors and 1280x800 resolution screens and touch wiz' 3-4gb of extra bloat in a plastic case... They do SUCK... Sorry - most of the Android community agrees on this

I'm glad you only have wifi issues - I had the same issues (still do) with my Nexus 7 but I like many had huge quality issues - as my post above details - this is unacceptable because my experience isn't alone or there would be dozens of articles showing how to "fix" the screen issues and Google wouldn't have replaced my tablet 3x...

By comparison the Mini's quality issues are minor - You focus on the guts and being able to tinker - Good point, and I agree but in the end most people aren't trying to tinker with their tablets and having a bit more power in a crappy built tablet - They want something that works and has lesser specs makes the difference - NOT everyone want's to root their tablet, install kernels, and play...

All of that being said I have the new 7 32GB and after 8 hours, it's a HUGE improvement - It should be compared to the next gen Mini not last years model.

People want something now, and don't care of potential (historical) quality issues, get the new 7 but if you can wait for the new Mini then you can do a proper assessment of which one suits you better.

Last edited by sundragon; Aug 3, 2013 at 07:59 AM. Reason: spelling, grammar - YAY
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Old Aug 3, 2013, 11:18 AM   #91
maxosx
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Originally Posted by sundragon View Post
Hello, I have - both Nexus 7 1 and 2

One issue - You're comparing the Nexus 7 2nd gen to the current gen iPad Mini which is at best an unfair comparison - The current iPad mini came out to compete with the first gen Nexus 7
Hello, I too have both the Nexus 7 (2012) I bought upon it's release, and the new Nexus 7.2 (2013) also purchased / picked up from Best Buy on the day it was released. In addition, I bought the iPad Mini the day it was released from my local Apple store, it's a nice companion to my iPad 4.

Why so many tablets? Because I like choices, I'm a long time Apple supporter / shareholder / enthusiast and user.

To use the excuse that I was comparing a newer product to Apple's iPad mini is irrelevant as Apple could have included their much hyped "Retina" display in the first mini. That they didn't I can only surmise, is due to their priority of high gross profit margins over anything else.

My original Nexus 7, was excellent. Yes I'm aware that some people had issues, but being in tech as long as I have I know it's to be expected.
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Old Aug 3, 2013, 07:17 PM   #92
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I like the Note 8.0 but just today saw they have a Samsung Tab 8. Didnt know it existed and it is just like the Note 8.0 but has no stick. Dont really need the stick and it has the samesize screen while the device itself is narrower than the Note 8.0.

Really a nice size but of course it isnt a Nexus to get the updates faster....unless you root and flash a custom ROM. I like the Nexus 7 and we have two in our house but i think it has a lot of wasted space and love the 8" screens but i will take a look at the new one.
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Old Aug 3, 2013, 07:21 PM   #93
ChrisTX
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I'd wait personally. I was going to buy a Nexus 7 for the display, but now that Apple is rumored to have a retina display on the iPad mini, screw all of that other noise! LOL.
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Proud owner of an early 2011 15" MacBook Pro, First gen 15" MacBook Pro, iPad 3, Apple TV, Prototype iPhone 5P, and numerous iPods.
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