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Old Aug 12, 2013, 11:32 AM   #26
Zombie Acorn
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Quote:
Originally Posted by elistan View Post
Lead based paint wasn't banned for household use until 1978. Do you really think that all pre-1978 houses are deteriorating and decrepit?

There many neighborhoods where the houses built in the 1920's through 1978 (the year lead based paint for homes was banned) that are very desirable, are lived in by middle to upper class families, and quite possibly still have lead paint around the home or lead in the soil due to said paint. Consider the Washington Park area in Denver - of the 37 homes listed for sale, sales prices average $716k (range from $310k to $1.6 million, std dev $288k) and years built average 1940 (ranges from 1890 to 2012, std dev 31 years.)

Here's an example - a 1922 house listed for $1,295,000.
http://www.zillow.com/homedetails/10...13354441_zpid/
That's not a decrepit house that only poor people will live in.

(And just for the heck of it, here's a 1939 house in Dallas listed for $2,595,000.
http://www.zillow.com/homedetails/52...26759681_zpid/ )
if you are paying 3 million for a house and it hasn't been restored or remodeled since 1922 there's something wrong.

Most of the houses you posted look newly renovated so unless you went there for a paint sample and tested it for lead I will just assume that there has been some work done to the house since 1922.
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Old Aug 12, 2013, 11:53 AM   #27
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Originally Posted by Zombie Acorn View Post
if you are paying 3 million for a house and it hasn't been restored or remodeled since 1922 there's something wrong.

Most of the houses you posted look newly renovated so unless you went there for a paint sample and tested it for lead I will just assume that there has been some work done to the house since 1922.

Yet both homes in the above examples you commented on were last renovated in 1947 and 1939 respectively. It is clearly possible, and quite likely that lead paint exists here and was simply painted over, much like it was in tens of millions of other middle class homes and rentals.
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Old Aug 12, 2013, 05:05 PM   #28
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Zombie's missing the argument.

Simply put, if the lead pipes were installed in 1930 and people are still using those pipes (and thereby suffering lead exposure) then we still decreased the amount of lead exposure by limiting the lead in the atmosphere.

The exposure has been decreased and the current correlational studies seem to indicate that the change occurred with the Clear Air Act.

Notably, the EPA changed the Safe Water Act in 1986 and 1996, so we should see correlational changes there as well.

The fact that lead pipes still exist in many homes does not refute the larger dataset that the Clean Air Act is ultimately the best anti-crime measure ever passed.
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Old Aug 12, 2013, 06:04 PM   #29
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... then we still decreased the amount of lead exposure by limiting the lead in the atmosphere. ... the Clean Air Act is ultimately the best anti-crime measure ever passed.

Thanks to the Clean Air Act Amendments of 1990 "lead levels in ambient air are 92% lower than in 1980" according to the EPA website.
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Old Aug 12, 2013, 07:11 PM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zombie Acorn View Post
if you are paying 3 million for a house and it hasn't been restored or remodeled since 1922 there's something wrong.

Most of the houses you posted look newly renovated so unless you went there for a paint sample and tested it for lead I will just assume that there has been some work done to the house since 1922.
Do you somehow think that when a house is restored or remodeled that all lead paint or lead pipes are automatically removed? You obviously don't know much about home renovations. At best, the paint is covered with another coat of paint, but that's all.
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Old Aug 12, 2013, 08:41 PM   #31
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Do you somehow think that when a house is restored or remodeled that all lead paint or lead pipes are automatically removed? You obviously don't know much about home renovations. At best, the paint is covered with another coat of paint, but that's all.
Actually most of the renovations I have done pulled down entire walls and replaced or installed drywall, replaced plumbing and electrical. If you are just repainting over the top of old paint I wouldn't even consider it a renovation. Its a painting party.
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Old Aug 12, 2013, 11:24 PM   #32
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Originally Posted by Zombie Acorn View Post
Actually most of the renovations I have done pulled down entire walls and replaced or installed drywall, replaced plumbing and electrical. If you are just repainting over the top of old paint I wouldn't even consider it a renovation. Its a painting party.
I agree. When I say renovation, I bring sledgehammers and skill saws, we're breaking things.

But, keep in mind—so we can get past this orthogonal argument—that lead can exist throughout older water systems, including the main pipes. The important part is the level of corrosion, the build of the pipes (there are different alloys), and how often that water sits in the corroded section.

So, even new high-end houses can have higher levels of lead pollution in the water than an old broken down shack in deepest Idaho, depending on the age of the pipe system. However, we still have decreased the total exposure to lead using the Clean Air Act, so your primary point—that the CAA and SWA removal of lead has given us a safer society cannot be true because lead exists in pipes—is still flawed.
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Old Aug 15, 2013, 12:55 PM   #33
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Originally Posted by Zombie Acorn View Post
Actually most of the renovations I have done pulled down entire walls and replaced or installed drywall, replaced plumbing and electrical. If you are just repainting over the top of old paint I wouldn't even consider it a renovation. Its a painting party.
Replacing lead pipework is SOP on any decent building project, no more unusual than removing rotten timber. Anything less is unconscionable.
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Old Aug 15, 2013, 04:54 PM   #34
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