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Old Jun 14, 2013, 08:02 AM   #1
Jaime M Torch
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Thumbs down Strange Apple Response to Forum Comments - iPod Touch 4th & iOS7

Hi,

I have an odd story to tell...

I was searching the web yesterday about iOS7 and the iPod Touch 4th generation. I was prompted by the apparent lack of support for the IPT 4th gen going forward, the IPT 4th gen was absent from the iOS7 device support list stated at WWDC. This struck me as odd given the quiet withdrawal of the device on 30 May 2013, i.e. 10 days prior to WWDC. Further I noted much confusion on the Apple Support Forums highlighted as the top hits in my Google search. I then noted that many of the links were dead stating "Unauthorised - It appears you're not allowed to view what you requested. You might contact your administrator if you think this is a mistake.". As questions were still being placed I thought I would post a comment last night, this is it:

"TITLE: iPod Touch 4th Generation & iOS7

Content: Please give me a paragraph or two to explain my thoughts on iOS 7 not coming to the 4th generation iPod Touch. I understand the technical limitations that hinder the 4th gen, i.e. the iPhone 4 has a slower CPU clock but 512MB Ram, whereas the iPod Touch 4th gen has only 256MB Ram (but a faster CPU clock speed).

I should point out that I am an Apple fan, owning everything from a Mac Pro to the iMac, Air, MacBook Pro, iPhone, iPad and various iPods.

From Wikipedia: "The remaining iPod Touch fourth generation models were discontinued on May 30, 2013, in favour of a scaled back 16GB iPod Touch fifth generation". I recall the quiet launch of the iPod Touch 5th generation 16GB edition and the confusion in some tech circles over the reasoning behind it. Following WWDC the reason is clear, iOS 7 and Apple doesn't want to be caught selling an unsupported iOS device.

Apple typically cuts off old hardware after several years of OS support, for example my iPod Touch 2nd generation was terminated at iOS 4.2.1. This was released on 9th September 2008 and discontinued on 9th September 2009 when the 3rd generation was launched with iOS3.1. iOS 4.2.1 was released on 22 November 2010. This is still over one year from the discontinuation of the iPod Touch 2nd generation. Further iOS4.2.5, which cut off the 2nd gen was released on 7th February 2011, that is a good life for the 2nd gen. The iPod 3rd generation had a similar life, released on 9th September 2009 with iOS3.1 and was discontinued on 1st September 2010 when the 4th gen launched with iOS4.x. However the 3rd gen continued to be supported until iOS5.1.1, which was released in May 2012, iOS6.0 was released during September 2012 and this cut off support for the 3rd gen. Therefore the 2nd gen was supported for 17 months beyond discontinuation and the 3rd gen was supported for 24 months beyond discontinuation!

Now the 4th generation iPod Touch launched with iOS4.x on 1st September 2010 and was discontinued on 30 May 2013. iOS 7 will be launched around September, therefore the 4th gen will only be supported for approx 4 months after discontinuation and I doubt we will get many further iOS6.x updates.

Does anyone see the issue here?

I got my 64GB 4th gen in 2010 and its been running like a dog for a while but I have had 2-3years of use once iOS 7 comes out, not bad, I'm not complaining. BUT, and this is a big BUT, some poor kid probably got one for his/her birthday in May 2013 and its already dead. Apps will become incompatible quickly once iOS stops supporting it. I know as I let iTunes update all my apps without realising back in my 2nd gen days and all my apps, paid and otherwise would no longer run on my 2nd gen. I now back up all iterations of my apps, but that was a costly lesson. Anyway I digress, is this cutting off of the 4th gen fair when the product was only discontinued two weeks ago?!?

I leave it to you to decide. In my opinion the 4th gen should have ended last fall/autumn when the 5th gen was launched. Bad show Apple, bad show....
"

About an hour later I got an email from Apple:

"Recently you posted in Apple Support Communities a question regarding a beta software that is available to Software Developers. Please be aware that Apple Support Communities forums are for released product support and Developers get support via the Apple Developer Connection.

Your post, "iPod Touch 4th Generation & iOS7," was removed as it deals with pre-release software.

We are eager to see more of the great apps you and other Developers continue to produce.

For more information or to register, go to (http://developer.apple.com/programs/register/).

Best Regards,
Apple Support Communities Staff
"

So this morning I noted that the "Unauthorised" notice was present on my post too, this must be the standard take down notice from Apple. I further noted that people were still asking about iOS7 and IPT 4th gen, so I reposted a redacted form of my prior post thinking the take down was automatic based on iOS7 being mentioned:

"TITLE: Apple is taking down iPod Touch 4th Gen and iOS [Seven] Commentary

Just to let you know I have noted that Apple has taken down a number of posts discussing iOS [seven] in relation to cutting off the iPod Touch 4 gen. This includes my analysis from yesterday. Apple are citing " pre-release software" as the reason for the take down:

[here I copied in the Apple email from above]

Seems automated so be careful using the iOS[seven] term. I am reposting my comment here but cutting out terms that may have triggered the take down (they were not inappropriate but dealt with the new software). My observation was that:

[I then posted a copy of my original posting but redacted iOS7 and replaced with iOS*].
"

Shortly afterwards my post was taken down again, Apple's second email was rather more human:

"Apple removed your post titled, "Apple is taking down iPod Touch 4th Gen and iOS [Seven] Commentary ," because it contained non-constructive rants or complaints.

Our terms of use, which include helpful information about using Apple Support Communities, is located here: https://discussions.apple.com/static...orial/tou.html. We encourage you to continue using the Apple Support Communities while abiding by our terms of use.

We are including a copy of your post at the end of this email for your reference.

If you would like to send feedback to Apple about a product, please use the appropriate selection here: http://www.apple.com/feedback

As part of submitting feedback, please read the Unsolicited Idea Submission Policy linked to the feedback page.

Best Regards,
Apple Support Communities Staff
"

Obviously Apple can do whatever they like with their own forum but it struck me as a bit odd, when I was just trying to explain the technical issue and also point out how unusual Apple was being in regard to the future of the IPT 4th gen, particularly for recent purchasers (in other words, not me!).

Anyway I thought I would post that series here in case anyone found it interesting. If I had purchased an IPT 4th gen from Apple this year (or even for Christmas) I would be returning it. Mine dates from 2010, so I have had a good run, others regrettably have not.
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Old Jun 14, 2013, 09:14 AM   #2
chumawumba
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iOS 6 was laggy enough. Apple wanted the user to have the best possible experience, thus they unsupported it on iOS 7. End of story.
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Old Jun 14, 2013, 09:21 AM   #3
TacticalDesire
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Not sure why anyone would want iOS 7 on the 4th gen. I wince at just the thought of such a horrible laggy mess.
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Old Jun 14, 2013, 11:40 AM   #4
Ffosse
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Rather than wanting iOS 7 on his iPod Touch 4th gen. I think the OP was complaining that Apple shouldn't have been selling it as recently as the end of May; and that anyone who bought one lately, is left with a dead device (upgrade-wise).

I don't know why Apple didn't just release the 5th gen. in 16, 32 and 64gb varieties last autumn and discontinue the 4th generation there and then.

British retailer Argos is still selling the 4th gen - you can buy a 32gb model for 180. http://www.argos.co.uk/static/Produc...er/5190221.htm

Some people really aren't the brightest crayons in the box and won't notice/care that it's not the latest one or is in fact obsolete.
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Old Jun 14, 2013, 12:12 PM   #5
Jaime M Torch
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Thanks Ffosse. That's right I don't personally want iOS7 on my IPT 4G. It is laggy on iOS6.x and it was poor on iOS5.x especially with wifi activated, but that is neither here nor there. I'm not disputing the technicalities. I have had mine for 2.5 years and its been good, like my 2G before it, it is now obsolete. We are all used to that. The unusual thing here is that Apple stretched out the purchasable product life too far on the 4G, so its not getting the usual 1-2 years of OS support post discontinuation. For Macs we tend to get 4 or 5 years after discontinuation.

So I don't disagree with the comments here and I'm not asking for anything personally. I do, however, think Apple has been remiss in keeping the 4G for so long, it should have been pulled when the 5G was launched. I also think any purchases in the past 3-6 months should be recalled by Apple and replaced with 5G equivalents, especially as Apple is deviating from its historic pattern of OS support.

I have sent similar feedback to Apple direct.
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Old Jun 14, 2013, 12:23 PM   #6
Ffosse
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Have you seen my thread about lag on the 5th gen. running iOS6?

http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=1592441

I'm being a little petty as the lag is nowhere near as bad as the 4th gen. running iOS6 but does leave me wondering about iOS7 on the 5th gen.
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Old Jun 14, 2013, 12:44 PM   #7
Jaime M Torch
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Hi. Yes I happened to read that just. What you describe reminds me of my 4G on iOS5 when I upgraded from iOS4. Is it any better in Airline mode? I found most of my 4G lag is improved by cutting out the antennas, not ideal but it gives a better experience.

----------

Also I had not considered the flash ram use as being directly relevant to performance. I wonder if it is like an SSD on Mac OSX, where you should leave 50% free for self cleaning?
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Old Jun 14, 2013, 01:42 PM   #8
Ffosse
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Well, I generally leave 1gb or so free, just so that I don't have to untick any music if I need space for a firmware upgrade.

The Wi-Fi is switched off. There is considerable lag - sometimes 5 seconds or so within the music app when, say, I'm viewing all my Neil Young songs and I press play then shuffle. The shuffle icon just hangs there (glowing orange in a sea of grey) for a full 5 seconds before proceeding to shuffle all Neil Young. It feels like forever when you're watching it. This is some 400 songs, and again, there is lag scrolling up and down a long playlist.

But I do restart the player once a week or so, and this cures the RAM problem until the next time.

I haven't investigated whether there are similar hangs/lags using other apps as I only ever use Safari or the App store briefly, and don't really use YouTube or any other media intensive apps much. My iPod is mainly for music and books, but still the lag is there in the music app.
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Old Jun 14, 2013, 02:47 PM   #9
Jaime M Torch
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That's interesting. I used to get lag within the iTunesU and Podcast sections, which became unmanageable in the Podcast app.

Do you get general iOS lag, double clicking to bring up running apps or left swiping to bring up system wide search? That's the biggest difference I notice between A4, A5 and A6 processors. I have the 4G, an iPad 2, iPad mini and an iPhone 5. The A6 wins hands down. The iPads are about equal but the screen sensitivity is far more accurate on the mini.

I bring this up as I would expect the IPT 5G to essentially be the iPad 2, A5 with 512MB Ram? I get no lag at all even when running with 20MB free! Very occasional stutter on big apps (?memory swapping). My kids often have 20 or more apps 'running'. The music and podcast apps are the first to complain.

I'm not sure I can think of any specific help unless there is some hardware fault. Personally I would erase and reinstall from iTunes. Test empty, then load to 50%, then if all is well load as now and see how you go. Pain I know.

That may not help but it is worth a try. Now I think of it, that fixed my IPT 4G lag after upgrading from iOS4 to 5. However, my IPT 2G never recovered from moving to iOS4 despite secure erasing and reinstalling iOS3.1.3. I presume something was left in that device at the OS level. But newer IPTs have encryption and blanking is really just destroying the key making the data useless, whereas the old devices were like zero formatting a HDD and I'm not sure it really did.

Anyway, you could try that unless you have already.
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Old Jun 14, 2013, 03:58 PM   #10
Ffosse
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No - there is no general iOS lag - switching between apps is fast and I've no problem browsing the app store or iTunes.

Just the music app, really. I could have less music on there; but that would be defeating the point of having a 64gb player in the first place, and I'm nsure would make any difference anyway.

It's not a huge deal at the moment , but I wish Apple had put 1gb of RAM in there.
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Old Jun 14, 2013, 04:26 PM   #11
Jaime M Torch
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Hmmm....that sounds like the app then, balanced with the size of your playlist? However, my playlist has 1800 tracks! I can't say I have noted much issue. Perhaps iOS7 will sort your troubles. May be worth backing up your SHSH blobs first in case you wish to roll back to iOS6 if iOS7 makes things worse? iFaith may be up to 5G now? Been ages since I looked into this for my ATV2s.
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