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Old May 8, 2013, 10:26 AM   #51
rdowns
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Originally Posted by citizenzen View Post
Republicans.

I remember.
Not to mention the downgrade in our credit rating.
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Old May 8, 2013, 10:27 AM   #52
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... I remember.
Maybe you need to eat more garlic.
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Old May 8, 2013, 11:07 AM   #53
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Republicans.

I remember.
It looks like my internet must be different then yours.
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Old May 8, 2013, 12:31 PM   #54
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Your preaching to those that know that already. The Stock Market is just a fancy version of gambling.
Require any instruments to have a 20% tax on them when re-sold within 30 days of purchase (tax on the seller). Problem solved.
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Old May 8, 2013, 01:19 PM   #55
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Give me another explanation then? Both parties are following the exact same policies of inflating bubbles with cheap money. The only thing in common is the Fed policy of QE.
When I look at the history of the US economy, I observe not a few boom/bust cycles prior to when the Federal Reserve Bank was established in the early 20th century. The US was on a metal-backing standard for currency for most of that time, as well as for at least three decades in the mid-20th century, yet, throughout those time periods, we still see boom/bust cycles, complete with investment bubbles, some of them quite severe. If you want to blame the Fed and QE for all our economic problems, then you should be happy to blame Monsanto, ADM, McDonalds, et al, for the epidemic of obesity in the US. I, personally, will continue to assert that the economy is a kind of intricate platter of spaghetti for which any one solution will not succeed on its own and may well make things worse.
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Old May 8, 2013, 01:29 PM   #56
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Require any instruments to have a 20% tax on them when re-sold within 30 days of purchase (tax on the seller). Problem solved.
What happens if you buy the wrong thing by accident? What happens if you want to set a floor price where you automatically sell a stock?

A better answer would be a ~1% transaction tax, as you'd never make any money with high-frequency trading.
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Old May 8, 2013, 03:59 PM   #57
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Originally Posted by lannister80 View Post
Require any instruments to have a 20% tax on them when re-sold within 30 days of purchase (tax on the seller). Problem solved.
I'd prefer a small tax on each trade per share. That hits the gamblers and HFT directly and leaves the small specs alone. But the lobbyists will never allow the regulators to do that.

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When I look at the history of the US economy, I observe not a few boom/bust cycles prior to when the Federal Reserve Bank was established in the early 20th century. The US was on a metal-backing standard for currency for most of that time, as well as for at least three decades in the mid-20th century, yet, throughout those time periods, we still see boom/bust cycles, complete with investment bubbles, some of them quite severe. If you want to blame the Fed and QE for all our economic problems, then you should be happy to blame Monsanto, ADM, McDonalds, et al, for the epidemic of obesity in the US. I, personally, will continue to assert that the economy is a kind of intricate platter of spaghetti for which any one solution will not succeed on its own and may well make things worse.
I didn't say that the Fed invented bubbles. Human nature created that. Even the tulip bubbles of the past weren't caused by central banks.

However, the Fed has perfected the creation of bubbles and made them much larger than they would have otherwise been. The housing bubble is a perfect example of this. We all knew that a bubble was being created as early as 2004-5 when liar loans, 100% financing, and MBS were being created. The Fed did nothing and let it grow. Without the Fed, there would never have been a housing bubble because there would be no 1% interest rates which open the door for the financial private sector to create all these products which eventually caused their undoing.

I am also happy to blame private enterprise like the ones you mentioned for some of our ills in society. But I also see that many of those corporations exist and have become so large and powerful only due to intense lobbying that creates laws and regulations that benefit them.

Look at the Internet Sales tax that is going through Congress right now. It is supported by all the big box retailers, even Amazon. But it hurts the small retailer.

Even Dodd-Frank which was supposed to limit the power and scope of the big banks has made them even bigger and more TBTF. The smaller banks and credit unions have suffered trying to keep up with the regulations and they don't have the economies of scale compared to the big banks to do so.

The Federal Government with the cooperation of the Federal Reserve, with the best of intentions, create these negative and unintended consequences which ultimately worsen the problem before it began.

We'd still have bubbles without the Fed but they would likely be smaller and more frequent relieving the burden on the overall economy.

Right now, each bubble is larger than the last creating a very uncertain and unsustainable economic climate.
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Old May 8, 2013, 08:15 PM   #58
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Even Dodd-Frank which was supposed to limit the power and scope of the big banks has made them even bigger and more TBTF. The smaller banks and credit unions have suffered trying to keep up with the regulations and they don't have the economies of scale compared to the big banks to do so.
Well, the way I see it, "financial imperialism" is at least part of the root of the problem. It looks to me like the profitability of financial industries is way out of proportion to the benefit they offer society and it helps foster "industrial imperialism" (as in, GM was TBTF as well). It seems obvious to me that extreme measures need to be take to rein in this situation, such as requiring financial institutions to operate as non-profits with heavy constraints on overhead. Money belongs in the hands of people, not in the hands of bean counters.
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Old May 8, 2013, 08:29 PM   #59
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How quickly we forget who caused the sequester in the first place.
Republicans. Though this is a complicated story that doesn't leave anybody with clean hands.

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...But lets blame the GOP.
Okay.

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...BTW...NEITHER party has made a decent proposal. Republicans insist on removing Obama Care, which isn't going to happen, and the Democrats refuse to make any significant cuts to spending, nor have a true balanced budget.
One thing to keep in mind is the insistence on a "balanced budget" is part of the problem. We don't want a balanced budget right now, because right now the federal government should be spending money. As economic activity and tax revenue increase, the budget can be gradually balanced.

The Republican ideology is economically wrong headed and intended to hurt the Democrats in Congress, the President, and attack the social programs that have been keeping people afloat during one of the worst recessions ever.

The Republicans are wrong and yes their intransigence created the need for the sequester.
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Old May 8, 2013, 10:22 PM   #60
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Well, the way I see it, "financial imperialism" is at least part of the root of the problem. It looks to me like the profitability of financial industries is way out of proportion to the benefit they offer society and it helps foster "industrial imperialism" (as in, GM was TBTF as well). It seems obvious to me that extreme measures need to be take to rein in this situation, such as requiring financial institutions to operate as non-profits with heavy constraints on overhead. Money belongs in the hands of people, not in the hands of bean counters.
This financial imperialism comes from the Fed. Before 1971, the Fed was constrained by the gold standard. After 1971, they've had nearly infinite power to create money. Of course, this power has benefited their buddies in the big banks who are the actual owners of the Fed.

It's no wonder the explosion of credit and the expansion of the big banks began soon afterwards.
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Old May 10, 2013, 12:26 PM   #61
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Apparently someone doesn't understand the stock market, particularly the global economy.

The US stock market is rocking right now, not because we're doing fantastic. But because we are doing better than others are right now. Lots of money is being pulled out of Europe and put into our market since there is so much financial uncertainty with Greece, Italy, Spain, etc.

Our market is doing great because it's a better investment than overseas right now. But it doesn't mean we're doing awesome. Our unemployment rate of those who have either a) completely stopped looking for jobs and have fallen out of the unemployment roles, or b) are currently underemployed by taking a job with lower pay, has never been higher from the charts that I could find.
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Old May 10, 2013, 12:53 PM   #62
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Apparently someone doesn't understand the stock market, particularly the global economy.

The US stock market is rocking right now, not because we're doing fantastic. But because we are doing better than others are right now. Lots of money is being pulled out of Europe and put into our market since there is so much financial uncertainty with Greece, Italy, Spain, etc.

Our market is doing great because it's a better investment than overseas right now. But it doesn't mean we're doing awesome. Our unemployment rate of those who have either a) completely stopped looking for jobs and have fallen out of the unemployment roles, or b) are currently underemployed by taking a job with lower pay, has never been higher from the charts that I could find.
You are correct. But you should also mention where that money is coming from. It is being printed by the Fed, ECB, BOJ, and every central bank in our control. That money has to go somewhere and it is coming to the US stock market. Seems to be the best game in town. Until it isn't.
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Old May 10, 2013, 01:08 PM   #63
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Republicans.

I remember.
Republicans created the sequester?

http://news.investors.com/politics-a...e-invented.htm
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Old May 10, 2013, 01:12 PM   #64
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Imagine how much better things will be when the Congress gets off its ass and fixes the stupid sequester and the ACA is fully implemented!

Are you feeling any optimism despite the petulent obstruction of the GOP, or do you still feel like we can't accomplish anything because of their unAmerican unwillingness to compromise on anything?

(Hope that wasn't too partisan. I was trying very hard to be neutral).
Our country would be better if Congress was a little more compromising.

I think the individual members want to please rich special interest groups and their party and not the people they are representing. You don't win elections these days by doing the will of the people you represent and that's the sad part of our men and women in DC.

While I don't think Obama will have a legacy as favorable as Clinton or Reagan, he will end up looking better than W even though he seems to be equally disliked. Obama may end up being the one who was considered instrumental in ending the recession, even if that end comes after he is out of office and the president will take the brunt of attacks well into his retirement. The president came into a situation where we were going to be on the downswing for what will probably be a full decade and he knew it. The only thing was for him to keep us from a true depression and win reelection so he could continue his policies to get us out of the gutter. I would think that the best he could hope for at retirement is a 50% percent favorable rating.

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Old May 10, 2013, 01:15 PM   #65
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Our country would be better if Congress was a little more compromising.

I think the individual members want to please rich special interest groups and their party and not the people they are representing. You don't win elections these days by doing the will of the people you represent and that's the sad part of our men and women in DC.
I'd say that your assessment that politicians are pretty much willing partners of the megacorps is a fair assessment. And both parties are guilty as charged. I have a good friend that is a day-trader on the floor of the NY stock exchange. In 2008 I asked him how I thought the market would react when Obama was elected. His answer? "Not much... we already know who Obama's favorites are.... we will just be moving investments from Bush's favorites to Obama's." (paraphrased)
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Old May 10, 2013, 01:24 PM   #66
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It looks like my internet must be different then yours.
Whoever has the correct internet doesn't change the fact that the president is still far more popular than the house. Who controls the house? Maybe this is simplistic and people who should be blaming the president instead blame the house. But if Americans thought the president was wrong, we would have Romney running things right now. Again the winners will write history and while Obama backers can't make him into a Clinton, they certainly don't have to worry about the anger people have towards Boehner and company, whether it's earned or not.

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I'd say that your assessment that politicians are pretty much willing partners of the megacorps is a fair assessment. And both parties are guilty as charged. I have a good friend that is a day-trader on the floor of the NY stock exchange. In 2008 I asked him how I thought the market would react when Obama was elected. His answer? "Not much... we already know who Obama's favorites are.... we will just be moving investments from Bush's favorites to Obama's." (paraphrased)
True. The market does dictate things more than we realize even though there is no "face" to that market and there's always a face at the White House.
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Old May 10, 2013, 02:18 PM   #67
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Money belongs in the hands of people, not in the hands of bean counters.
Or billionaires.

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Republicans created the sequester?
The only reason the Obama administration proposed the sequester was because the GOP refused to extend the debt limit and were going to sink the economy into a massive recession. The sequester was only proposed to get them to do something they should have done without any bribing.
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Old May 10, 2013, 04:09 PM   #68
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Or billionaires.



The only reason the Obama administration proposed the sequester was because the GOP refused to extend the debt limit and were going to sink the economy into a massive recession. The sequester was only proposed to get them to do something they should have done without any bribing.
So do you think we should extend the debt limit forever whenever it comes up?

I didn't agree with how the Republicans made that point but we aren't really discussing it in the open either.
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Old May 13, 2013, 09:08 AM   #69
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Our country would be better if Congress was a little more compromising.
People who run for office should subscribe to the point of view that reasonable people can disagree, but still work together to find compromise. Two people with diametrically opposed viewpoints should be able to sit down in a room, discuss their views, and hammer out a compromise.

Our government has historically worked best when the two parties compromise so that we don't end up with some right-wing, or left-wing, agenda. Unfortunately, the GOP of today has adopted a viewpoint that they are right, and anything but 100% agreement with their doctrine is heresy.

They are acting like some dystopian nightmare.

I like republicans, and I like many of the ideas they have, but this refusal to negotiate and intransigence as to anything they disagree with is unAmerican and is worse than if someone pissed on the Constitution. It's tragic.

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So do you think we should extend the debt limit forever whenever it comes up?

I didn't agree with how the Republicans made that point but we aren't really discussing it in the open either.
What's the alternative? Democrats have offered half a dozen balanced approaches to the debt, but also the other problems. We can't have a growing economy if we strangle it to death. The Democrats have proposals that (even if they are pretty crappy) are at least intended to spur our economy. The GOP only wants to shift the tax burden so that the wealthiest of the wealthy don't pay any more. It's shameful.
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Old May 13, 2013, 10:58 AM   #70
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People who run for office should subscribe to the point of view that reasonable people can disagree, but still work together to find compromise. Two people with diametrically opposed viewpoints should be able to sit down in a room, discuss their views, and hammer out a compromise.

Our government has historically worked best when the two parties compromise so that we don't end up with some right-wing, or left-wing, agenda. Unfortunately, the GOP of today has adopted a viewpoint that they are right, and anything but 100% agreement with their doctrine is heresy.

They are acting like some dystopian nightmare.

I like republicans, and I like many of the ideas they have, but this refusal to negotiate and intransigence as to anything they disagree with is unAmerican and is worse than if someone pissed on the Constitution. It's tragic.
I heard a great radio interview with leader of California GOP. While the California group is more moderate in general, the extremists on the far right have seized control from the help of nationally funded GOP money that talks well to the deep south (as she mentioned) but may not translate too well out west.

West coast, rocky mountain, and some northern midwest states need the big GOP money but can't serve the republicans of their district if catering to a quaint Bible belt form of right wing republicanism. What works well in Alabama should not be hoisted as the model for California. Where fiscal matters and immigration should lead the way, the GOP head out west here is so worried about how much guns, abortion, and prayer in school dictate the dialogue. This has only marginalized the California GOP who would have done better had they addressed issues more targeted to California. Right now the interest group laden GOP is at their weakest point.

Romney could have won had he ran a campaign based on his stances in Massachusetts, not an ultra right wing agenda that neither he nor most American voters believed in.
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