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Old Dec 9, 2013, 03:23 PM   #51
hulugu
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Originally Posted by Mousse View Post
Yarp. Separation of Church and State is merely a suggestion with the United States. Through out our history, God has been credited or mention as motivation for a lot of actions. But there's no need to dig into the history books to see the influence of religion on our Government. Look no further than the god of the US: the almighty dollar. Every coin, every bill printed in the US contains the OFFICIAL MOTTO of the United States, "In God we trust."
Keep in mind, that "In god we trust" was largely shoehorned into the culture in 1956 two years after the Knight of Columbus, the same guys who pepper public parks with Ten Commandments monuments, managed to get "under god" stapled to the end of the Pledge of Allegiance.
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Old Dec 9, 2013, 03:24 PM   #52
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Originally Posted by Mousse View Post
Yarp. Separation of Church and State is merely a suggestion with the United States. Through out our history, God has been credited or mention as motivation for a lot of actions. But there's no need to dig into the history books to see the influence of religion on our Government. Look no further than the god of the US: the almighty dollar. Every coin, every bill printed in the US contains the OFFICIAL MOTTO of the United States, "In God we trust."
It became the National Motto in 1956 (Cold War). Before that, the unofficial motto was "E Pluribus Unum" (secular).

"Under God" was added to the pledge in...1954 (Cold War).

"In God We Trust" was added to paper currency in...1957 (Cold War).

Noticing a pattern here? COLD WAR.
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Old Dec 9, 2013, 03:34 PM   #53
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As a Christian I have to say that the Satanists have every right to request this. I see it as an opportunity to teach the unintelligent that church and state should be separate.

You can't allow one and not allow for all.
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Old Dec 9, 2013, 03:39 PM   #54
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Seriously?

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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Festivus

Wikipedia has a "search" feature, too. It might be less NSFW, since it won't show pictures in its results. Wikipedia does have some pretty NSFW pictures and subjects, though, so it's not all gumdrops and unicorns.
Oh for ****'s sake...I thought it was something serious.
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Old Dec 9, 2013, 03:42 PM   #55
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Oh for ****'s sake...I thought it was something serious.
No you thought it was something dirty.
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Old Dec 9, 2013, 04:06 PM   #56
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No you thought it was something dirty.
I didn't know it was something made up for a TV show. So yeah, I wasn't going to chance looking up something called "Festivus pole."
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Old Dec 9, 2013, 04:18 PM   #57
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I too would rather see no religion affiliated with our government institutions.

However, if we are going to allow religious expression in our public buildings, then I fully support Satanists in their desire to likewise participate.
Ah, this is the "war against Christianity", when non-Christian groups insist that either the Ten Commandments not be allowed for display on government property or that all religions be given equal opportunity, (Satanists included).

I'm with you in that I think it would be simpler if all religious displays were banned. I'm a firm believer that religion makes us stupid...
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Old Dec 9, 2013, 04:31 PM   #58
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It became the National Motto in 1956 (Cold War). Before that, the unofficial motto was "E Pluribus Unum" (secular).

"Under God" was added to the pledge in...1954 (Cold War).

"In God We Trust" was added to paper currency in...1957 (Cold War).

Noticing a pattern here? COLD WAR.
Yeah, it's because we were fighting those heathen commies. Anyhow, In God we trust was imprinted on US coins back during the Civil War. It was to declare that God sided with the Union. Y'all see the trend? Every time the US Gub'ment wants to rally the populous, they invoke God.

Even the courts have said it didn't violate the first amendment that called for separation of Church and State. The Supreme Court has yet to rule on the matter. I doubt they ever will, since it would deprived the Gub'ment of a key cog in their propaganda machine.
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Old Dec 9, 2013, 08:20 PM   #59
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I'm with you in that I think it would be simpler if all religious displays were banned. I'm a firm believer that religion makes us stupid...
I assume that includes the Liberal religion..... It explains so much about you!
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Old Dec 9, 2013, 08:55 PM   #60
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I assume that includes the Liberal religion..... It explains so much about you!
Unitarian Universalism is a liberal religion. Is that what you're referring to?
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Old Dec 9, 2013, 10:28 PM   #61
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I assume that includes the Liberal religion..... It explains so much about you!
You really have no grounds to say that Liberals are more devoted to helping mankind, than Conservatives are devoted to keeping the "unworthy ones" and women in their places, over flowing corporate welfare coffers, and feeding the war machine.
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Old Jan 6, 2014, 09:59 PM   #62
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Satanists unveil proposed statue for OK state capitol

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According to The Satanic Temple's application, the proposed monument features a large pentagram and “a 7-foot tall goat-headed Baphomet that sits cross-legged flanked by a child on both sides. The lap will serve as a seat for visitors.”

It would also include quotes from poets William Blake and Lord Byron.

The monument, said the group’s spokesman, was designed to reflect the views of Satanists in Oklahoma City and could doubly serve as a tourist attraction.

“The statue will serve as a beacon calling for compassion and empathy among all living creatures,” said spokesman Lucian Greaves. “The statue will also have a functional purpose as a chair where people of all ages may sit on the lap of Satan for inspiration and contemplation.”

Oklahoma state legislators in 2009 approved the installation of a privately-funded Ten Commandments monument. It was installed last year over the protests of the local chapter of the American Civil Liberties Union. The Satanic Temple wasn’t the only group to apply for a monument; People for the Ethical Treatment of Animals, the satirical Church of the Flying Spaghetti Monster and a Hindu group have also requested a place near the Capitol steps.

"Either way you cut it, this is a First Amendment issue," Greaves said. "Once they open that door, they can't discriminate."

State Rep. Mike Ritze, who spearheaded the campaign to erect the Ten Commandments and paid for that monument, did not immediately reply to a request for comment.

Oklahoma lawmakers have declared that Satanists should not be allowed to construct a monument of their own. The city Preservation Commission last month voted to ban additional statues on Capitol grounds until a judge decides on an ACLU suit to remove the current Ten Commandments monument.

Greaves assured the Satanists’ monument would be “in good taste and consistent with community standards.”

Asked why the Temple had chosen to descend on Oklahoma, Greaves said the locals had reached out to him after the Ten Commandments had been erected.
I want robocop there too! I worship robocop.
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Old Jan 6, 2014, 10:21 PM   #63
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Satanists unveil proposed statue for OK state capitol



I want robocop there too! I worship robocop.
Spaghetti monsters, Zeus, Thor. Once the door is opened, it can't be closed.
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Old Jan 7, 2014, 09:02 AM   #64
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Bottom line, religious displays should not be allowed on government or public property because we are a secular state based on separation of church and state, no official state religion, freedom of religious worship, and equality, which also should apply to religion, but frequently does not when certain people practicing a certain religion get into public office. Not to pick on that certain religion, because I believe all people are susceptible to this flaw. Put enough XXX into office and we'd have pushes to have XXX displays on the courthouse steps.
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Old Jan 7, 2014, 09:50 AM   #65
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Isn't anyone going to reference SNL with this?
OK, Lorne Michaels is the antichrist.

You always knew it anyway.



I think what we really need is a statue of Judas Iscariot. Without him none of this would be possible.
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Old Jan 7, 2014, 01:31 PM   #66
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Looks fun to me (although also clichéed, but then I've always been into extreme metal)... at least there aren't any nails going through any body parts with lots of blood dripping.. (not that I'd really mind that, as I'm a fan of Robocop too)
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Old Jan 7, 2014, 01:48 PM   #67
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Anyhow, In God we trust was imprinted on US coins back during the Civil War.
I'm unable to find any references to coins with "in God we trust" on them from the Civil War. Do you have some references?

Edit: I found a coin in 1864 with that reference, but most coins of that era didn't seem to have it.

PS: As a Ranma fan, I love your avatar.
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Old Jan 7, 2014, 04:27 PM   #68
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I'm unable to find any references to coins with "in God we trust" on them from the Civil War. Do you have some references?
You would only find it on coins in the latter years of the War. Here it is, straight from the horse's mouth.

Quote:
The motto IN GOD WE TRUST was placed on United States coins largely because of the increased religious sentiment existing during the Civil War. Secretary of the Treasury Salmon P. Chase received many appeals from devout persons throughout the country, urging that the United States recognize the Deity on United States coins. From Treasury Department records, it appears that the first such appeal came in a letter dated November 13, 1861.
My take is it was a pure propaganda move. The North was implying that God was on their side, instead of those seditious South. Ironic ain't it, seeing how the southern states is considered 'Murica's Bible Belt.

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Old Jan 8, 2014, 09:38 AM   #69
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Many (most?, but I did not say all ) religious minded folks will usually attempt to intertwine their beliefs into government. That's a given. It's up to us as society to resist. In God We Trust is just part of the movement.
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Old Jan 8, 2014, 09:52 AM   #70
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Their methods might not be as crude as those used by fundamentalist Muslims, and others, but the intended end result is the same.

Control over other people's lives.
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Old Jan 8, 2014, 11:50 AM   #71
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From reading the NBC news article about this, I see that according to Lucien Greaves, a spokesman for the the New York-based Satanic Temple, "one potential design for the monument to Satan involves a pentagram, a satanic symbol, while another is meant to be an interactive display for children."

The interactive display for children certainly sounds more educational and interesting than some boring pentagram design. (Pentagram? That's just too cliche!)

If nothing else, maybe the monument to Satan would encourage Oklahomans to spiffy up their present Ten Commandments monument, to give it less of the tombstone look.

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I agree, the tombstone look is so 20th century.

But let's honor the separation of church and state. Theme parks are the way to go.
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